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Darling: macOS Translation Layer for Linux

614 points| lelf | 5 years ago |darlinghq.org | reply

199 comments

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[+] bogwog|5 years ago|reply
If this thing can run even just the Xcode command-line utilities, it'd be a huge asset for cross-platform projects, build automation, etc. Definitely keeping an eye on this!
[+] p_l|5 years ago|reply
Little known fact but you can build most of the utilities on Linux, and if you use Mac to prepare some of the bits, you can end up with complete build environment. Not Xcode itself, but enough to be able to build from source, afaik.
[+] birdyrooster|5 years ago|reply
Xcode requires macOS, I am pretty sure it won't run on straight Darwin
[+] logicOnly|5 years ago|reply
If Apple isn't getting their developer license and hardware brought, they will find a way to make it impossible.

Apple needs to force developers to use their hardware or it won't have a native/refined feeling and developers will stick to Windows/Linux without the extra step of Apple.

[+] sicromoft|5 years ago|reply
How did they not name this Dine?!
[+] m12k|5 years ago|reply
Running Darwin on Linux - Dar-ling. Plus nobody dreams of being the sidekick. But yeah, it would have been clever - I'm still disappointed that PyQT isn't called QTPy.
[+] nom|5 years ago|reply
Let's wine and dine them all :D
[+] azangru|5 years ago|reply
Dine is not an emulator?
[+] war1025|5 years ago|reply
Has this project regained some momentum?

I feel like I heard about it a number of years ago and then it never went anywhere.

The copyright at the bottom says 2012-2019, which makes me think it's the same project.

[+] steffan|5 years ago|reply
This is somewhat a philosophical question/ Ship of Theseus - you are only licensed to run MacOS on Apple hardware, but what if I had, say, an Xserve and replaced a hard drive? What about a Motherboard? Would a Franken-XServe with an AMD Threadripper still be ‘Apple Hardware?’
[+] wpm|5 years ago|reply
It would count as Apple hardware until you swapped the logic board, thus removing the boot ROM/EFI/SMC.
[+] m463|5 years ago|reply
Is this question in relation to darling? Because it is based on freely available source, not hackintosh-type stuff.

> Does it violate Apple's EULA? > > No! We only directly use those parts of Darwin that are released as fully free software.

[+] LockAndLol|5 years ago|reply
They can put anything in the license but the question is if it'll pass in court. Maybe in American court but European too?

How can it be permissible to buy software and not be allowed to use it on whatever you own? You own both. It's like DRM without the actual protection.

[+] alcidesfonseca|5 years ago|reply
Windows 7 (and 8?) had an activation procedure that would be blocked if the hardware changed since the last one (I can’t remember the exact hw they hashed). They have since went back on the restriction and windows 10 has more forgiving activation rules.
[+] peteretep|5 years ago|reply
> Does it support GUI apps? Almost!
[+] grishka|5 years ago|reply
I wish they took more of a ReactOS kind of approach. Namely, use all the open-source parts that go into macOS, like the kernel and CoreFoundation, and write the proprietary ones from scratch. Then you'd finally have a desktop OS with no compromises and a huge existing app ecosystem (and a consistent GUI).
[+] bkovacev|5 years ago|reply
Would this eventually allow us to run things like iMessage?
[+] KMnO4|5 years ago|reply
No, iMessage is heavily controlled by Apple to the point where even Hackintosh computers running the entire Mac operating system can't always get it working. Without a real Apple device (or: a real Apple serial number cloned to your device), iMessage has little possibility of ever working, even if this project evolves to GUI applications.
[+] stephc_int13|5 years ago|reply
I can't wait to use XCode on Linux, but that's probably overly optimistic...
[+] asddubs|5 years ago|reply
it would be really nice to be able to debug safari from linux actually. the other day I had to fix a safari bug by relying on friends to test things for me, because I didn't have access to a recent enough apple device
[+] barbs|5 years ago|reply
I like the idea, but I also can't think of anything I'd personally use it for.

Does anyone else have any Mac apps on their "run-on-linux" wishlist?

[+] saint-loup|5 years ago|reply
Sketch. At my company we use a mix of PC running Linux and Mac. Being able to run Sketch on Linux would open perspectives for designer types. Although the switch to Linux would meet opposition for other reasons. :)

The home page of Darling specifies "experimental support for running simple" GUI. Does anyone have any idea whether Metal support (which Sketch uses) is out of the question?

[+] berkes|5 years ago|reply
My company uses Tuple for pair programming.

That leaves me out as Linux user from our pair-programming-sessions (Jitsi and Google meet with screensharing does solve some). Not sure if this is a blessing or if I'm really missing out.

[+] JellyBeanThief|5 years ago|reply
Off the top of my head: OmniGraffle, Rogue Amoeba's Fission, Affinity Designer.
[+] d3nj4l|5 years ago|reply
iTerm, for one.
[+] xenospn|5 years ago|reply
I think Adobe apps would qualify, no?
[+] omginternets|5 years ago|reply
Another small step towards my ideal setup of:

1. Apple hardware 2. Bare-metal linux OS 3. Emulation/shims to run MacOS software on top

Sure, it seems like a horrific Frankenstein's Monster of a setup, but since I can't have the best commercial applications, running on the (IMHO) best OS, running on (IMHO) the best hardware, this is a pill I would be willing to swallow.

[+] raverbashing|5 years ago|reply
Sounds like SoftPear (which IIRC stopped for tragic reasons)

But unless you have the capability of running the GUI, it's hard to justify (is there a killer cmdline only app for Mac OS? I don't think so)

[+] bb88|5 years ago|reply
Does someone have some screenshots for what it looks like under linux? In particular, how are the menus handled?
[+] kennywinker|5 years ago|reply
> Q: Does it support GUI apps?

> A: Almost! This took us a lot of time and effort, but we finally have basic experimental support for running simple graphical applications. It requires some special setup for now though, so do not expect it to work out of the box just yet.

GUI support seems not to be ready yet, but when it is, it looks like they're using cocotron, so it'll look something like any of the examples you see on this page: http://www.cocotron.org/Examples/

[+] hevelvarik|5 years ago|reply
Wow, hope this works out, no easy way to do anything with my iPhone on Linux has been galling
[+] mig39|5 years ago|reply
Does this allow one to mount iCloud Drive on a linux box?

Or has anyone figured out another way to do that?

[+] pmarreck|5 years ago|reply
> We aim to fully integrate apps running under Darling into the Linux desktop experience by making them look, feel and behave just like native Linux apps.

If this goes beyond just the "window dressing", it may cause UI issues

[+] SeanLuke|5 years ago|reply
It appears that this webpage hasn't been updated for over a year. Hoping this project hasn't been put in mothballs.
[+] surfsvammel|5 years ago|reply
If this works, it’s a total game changer for me.
[+] davesque|5 years ago|reply
Until ARM Macs become prevalent.
[+] unixhero|5 years ago|reply
How about the Quartz compositor? Does it run that?