"[Hunter S. Thompson] chose, rather than writing original copy, to re-type books like The Great Gatsby and a lot of Norman Mailer, the Naked and the Dead, a lot of Hemingway. He would sit down there on an old type-writer and type every word of those books and he said, 'I just wanna feel what it feels like to write that we'll.'"
HST: "If you type out somebody's work, you learn a lot about it. Amazingly it's like music. And from typing out parts of Faulkner, Hemingway, Fitzgerald - these were writers that were very big in my life and the lives of the people around me - so yea I wanted to learn from the best I guess."
This was explained by HST in one of his letters, which was collected in the excellent three book collection of letters he sent and received to his friends. Including many famous writers.
HST was always great in small rapid outputs of writing, which is captured well in his letters (similar to how his collection of articles are his most popular works, but these deserve a similar look).
He obviously had some sort of ADD and later on combined with a long series of drug/alcohol addictions, so it makes sense he was better in short blurbs. Even his most famous novel Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas has a feeling of multiple long spurts on a typewriter.
Which is always how he wrote. Always also at the very last minute of the magazine due date and/or because he was running out of money and needed the next advance.
I believe this is common in creative fields. Long periods of meh and spurts of greatness.
Anyway the book series is here, usually called the Gonzo Letters:
Only the 2nd one has a Wikipedia page for some reason (the 3rd one came out in 2014) but the first one (The Proud Highway: The Saga of a Desperate Southern Gentleman 1955–1967) as a young writer who is often desperate and broke was most interesting IMO, even though his life or writing wasn’t yet as it would become famous for (but definitely still as wild) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_and_Loathing_in_America
Agreed that you learn much about a work (I've retyped a few articles and books simply to get a usable copy). But copying is not the same as creating --- you'll see the finished product, and may intuit hints as to how it was created, but what you're not getting is the creation process itself: research (especially for nonfiction), structure, plotting and character (for fiction), editing, rewriting, restructuring and reordering content, additions and deletions.
Writing (and reading) short disconnected bits is fairly easy: nothing interrelates strongly, composition is simple and forgiving. Longer works are complex: they have structure, arcs, need to retain interest, jumps and connections need to be plausible, the whole be consistent (unless inconsistency is used for effect), etc., etc.
And you don't get this knowledge simply by copying out great works.
I see a similar failure-to-grasp in some proposals for hypertext or advanced publishing systems. Reading is inherently serial, in that we follow lines of text on a page. Interactivity --- usually defined by the ability to skip between previously-written segments --- just offers more serial paths.
The value of hypertext and related tools may be far more on the writing process, where vastly more sources can be referenced and cited with greater ease. Some might be incorporated into the final work, but an excess of interconnections and quotations is itself distracting.
I see this as a particular blindness of Ted Nelson's Xanadu project, despite many fascinating and original elements to it.
Maybe he means like jazz musicians? (I'm one.) Every musician I know has transcribed solos. You pick some solo you like but have no idea what they're doing, transcribe it, and learn to play it along with them. Bits and pieces perhaps will rub off in your own playing. You don't want to sound like them, but it's good to be able to if you want – and for that you need to absorb their style, so your body can just go into that mode, without having to think about it. I'm a piano player but have also transcribed sax, trumpet, bass lines, gospel songs, reggae, funk, .. even taps dripping, babies crying etc etc.
Reminds me ... in a computer nerd way ... of "python the hard way" (which used to be very open/free, now it has changed)
You would not read or download the lessons. You typed all the python in word by word. I think it really helped the learning process to type it out. It was slow and deliberate, even to mistyping and making mistakes (and fix them).
The analogy with music is interesting. Superficially, the musical activity which looks most like typing is simply playing an instrument. And sight-reading does feel a bit like typing. But I wonder if he's talking about transcription in that quote. One can sight read complex music without learning anything about it if they happen to just be a good sight reader. But transcription really does force you to pay attention to structural nuances you otherwise wouldn't get just by listening to a piece of music.
For this to actually work you probably need to put the original text away, try to recreate a piece of it from memory, and repeat until you get it close to right. AKA the Benjamin Franklin method.
Just like anyone can trace or copy a picture drawn by a master, copying text won't grant understanding. What actually matters for a creator is the ability to produce content from higher level ideas, eg from whatever mental representation you used to hold the writing or drawing in memory.
Programming is the exact same way. If ever I'm in doubt of someone's design and I have an inkling of respect for them, I'll try to design the code from scratch in my head, or sometimes even redesign a toy version myself. This usually surfaces some weird property of the problem that explains their code. You can also go through their thought processes and see exactly how they made decisions along the way. I'd argue you can even infer philosophical viewpoints in some cases, too - all without actually communicating with the author.
I love that about humans. One of the things I really admire about us.
Would be super interesting if this holds true for 'copying out' code as well... it's all the edge case handling that can get boring to re-type out without context / comments...
Important to note that it was on a manual typewriter. The key is making it slow, so you can observe how the author is doing what they're doing. Reading is very fast ... typing on a manual typewriter is slow enough to give you time to observe.
Amazing idea, really I'm impressed. This intrigued me at first glance as a fun typing exercise, as I've always struggled with typing - I started using computers way before they started teaching typing around here, so my typing is far from the optimal 10 finger method, but I've always found typing exercises mind numbingly boring.
However, as I started typing The call of Cthulhu, I'm now much more intrigued by this as a new way to read books. It is a very different literary experience from just simply reading. I'm way more attentive to the text itself, rather than just the meaning, if that makes sense. Though it's very possible that this effect is going to go away as I get more used to it.
Any chance of typing out custom uploaded books? Maybe copy pasted plaintext?
Also kudos on the execution, the site is really nicely made.
I've always thought of typing lessons as being a thing from long before computers. Back then it was treated as a serious skill which could lead directly to employment. Now it's just something you're expected to know.
I had plenty of basic IT education at school, but was never taught how to type at all.
Have you tried reading books out loud? I found that made a surprising difference to experience of books, even just because I was devouring them much slower. Found it much easier to enjoy the 'craft' of the book too.
This is a cool site, though I did notice something that I haven't seen anywhere before: the URL paths are JSON objects. Is there a reason for this? For example, for "The Call of Cthulhu", the URL is this:
https://www.typelit.io/chapters/%7B%22bookTitle%22:%20%22The...
Hey I'm glad you asked! It's the way Nextjs handles urls with more than 1 param. If I prettify the URL then for some reason the page can't access them. Don't know if they've improved on it yet (or, who knows, maybe I'm just using it wrong) but it'll be fixed eventually.
This comment can’t be read, perhaps use code block formatting, or remove the http and domain info, so we can see what you mean? The link is getting truncated when it displays.
That's a cool idea. I once made a similar site but for a completely different purpose -- language learning. Unfortunately I never finished it but it's still in my TODO list.
The workflow was:
- you read the sentence
- the sentence disappears
- then you type from memory
- every time you mistype something -- the next couple of words appears for a few seconds and you keep typing
That way you not only learn to type that foreign language. But you also memorise the sentence in your short-time memory and you get a feel for sentences are created (order of words, phrases, etc.).
The schtick of the Pimsleur Method was to train by starting with a chunk at the end of a sentence, and prepending until one had recall of the entire sentence. That way, once you get over the hump of the newer material, still fresh in mind, it's all downhill revising the older.
- I'd prefer if the words not typed were in a lighter shade of grey so there were greater contrast between them and the words I've completed. I know this would reduce contrast with the page but I found the fact that they are such a strong grey to be somewhat of a distraction. Different people will have different preferences here, so maybe a slider or knob that can be used to adjust the contrast of yet to be typed text would be helpful.
- The fact that you can't correct mistakes is a huge annoyance and breaks my typing flow. It also tends to lead to runs of errors since I'll make a mistake, hit backspace, and then carry on typing, meaning I get an off by one error in the next few letters. I understand that you want to help people type with fewer errors but the reality is the way it works at the moment interrupts my flow much more severely than correcting the error would (and leads to far more mistakes), and you can still track the number of mistakes I make even if I'm allowed to correct them. I'd say the ability to correct mistakes should at least be an option that can be enabled or disabled according to the preference of the user.
Hope that's useful and, once again, this is very cool.
Congrats, it's really great! I have a few thoughts/suggestions, but first:
Does anyone know of a competitive/practice typing site (as TypeLit, or TypeRacer) where you help digitize books (or any sort of document)?
I'm very motivated by TypeRacer's competitions (it's silly, I know), but I would be even more inclined to play if I knew that there was a "greater" purpose...!
I haven't looked into Project Gutenberg's proof reading volunteering. But, something like that? A sort of "good for humanity" reCaptcha (the original one, that helped Google to digitize books)..?
---
Ideas for TypeLit:
- It would be nice if the WPM/ACC counters updated in real time in the upper right corner, not just when changing pages
- The competitive aspect of https://play.typeracer.com/ might not be a perfect fit for your site but just wondering if a leaderboard/social element could work (probably not, but just a thought)
I've used Type Faster and Sublime Text to achieve something like this but instead of books I've used articles/tutorials/documentation or articles in another language. In Type Faster I was creating new lessons with article I wanted to read. In Sublime Text I've used two panels - on left side I had article on right it was my typing space. While Type Faster shows you what word you have to type right now Sublime doesn't so I had to memorize as much words I wanted to type to avoid looking back and forth between panels. This is also useful when learning new language, if you are using Duolingo you most likely focus on speaking/reading/pronouncing words and not on writing so retyping articles in that language is very good method to memorize words.
Love this idea. I've recently decided to do some deliberate practicing around typing. I've been using keybr [1] which is a great site that randomly makes up phonetically accurate pseudo-words and has you type them. The goal there is to have you practice weak combinations of keys, and they have an excellent stats dashboard to show you your progress over time. I was able to raise my typing speed from ~90 wpm to ~110 wpm as measured on that site over about 40 days through 10 minutes of practice per day.
Based on my experience with that site, which I really love, I'd love to see some additional tracking of keys. The downside of your core idea is that you can't really do the trick of forcing deliberate practice of weak key patterns to engrain them into you.
Some other suggestions for stats, based on what exists on keybr and what I'd like to see
Or to improve your code writing speed and syntax familiarity; it would have to be integrated into your editor/IDE and tooling though, since I find that in some cases it helps a bit with productivity (autocomplete, auto-close, auto-format, etc).
This feels like a home run, talk to some publishers about allowing their books on their for a fee and charge a subscription to type those books and maybe you've got a viable product.
Hello, nice work! Unfortunately, since for now I am navigating through my keyboard only (not using a mouse because of lack of batteries) I can't really use it.
I am using linux and chrome with vimium and when I press f (to reveal the links) it doesn't "capture" any links for the books. I also tried it using tab to go to the books and it just jumped over them (!)
I presume you are doing some fancy JS things in the frontend that's why it can't understand the links, however
I think it's a little ironic to not be able to use a practice typing site with only your keyboard :)
PS I am not trying to to be the "smart-ass" with my comment, it is honest; if the comment does not seem nice please forgive me, english ain't my primary language :|
In The Autobiography of Malcolm X, he tells how he learned to read and write by copying out, by hand, the entire dictionary from the prison library, copying a page a day. (It's in chapter 11 of the Autobiography).
I already do this in https://www.keybr.com/ most articles I want to read from hackernews I copy past them there and type them instead of only reading them, I find it more fun and allow me to finish articles which I don't do when I read only.
In keybr.com you can provide your own custom text in => Setting => Provide your own custom text.
One thing I really miss is the ability to backspace an entire word. I expect Ctrl+backspace to delete the previous word. This works in all places that I usually type so I find it quite difficult to not have this.
I got through the second paragraph. I probably made 10 mistakes. Very nice interface.
My only thought was - if I suck at typing, learning it, it's going to be very discouraging getting through just one page. I wonder if it would be better to display just a paragraph at a time. Also as the user finishes a sentence without mistakes to give them a visual reward (kinda like one of those cheap mobile games that shows stars or something). And another reward for finishing a paragraph.
Other than that, I am guessing this will likely help a lot of people learn to type or type faster.
Can you add famous speeches? For the same reason Hunter S. Thompson chose to re-write famous books, I'd like to re-write a famous political speech every morning. Also, how about pulling in song lyrics from your favorite band? The option to load your own content would be cool. But the speeches would be my fav option.
This reminds me that when I was younger, around 9 or 10 years old, we lived with my mom in some desolate place where Internet was nonexistent. We still had a computer though, so what I would do to pass time is that I would pick up some books from her library and retype them on computer. This really was an amusing experience and I could spend hours doing it. Wonder if I'd get the same feeling ten years later.
Why is it that I find on certain websites (this one included) that some keystrokes aren't recognised when I use Safari? The letter 'e' not being recognised is common. Chrome works fine. This is on a Mac with Catalina and a British keyboard.
It's great to see that some people really like this, and the quote from HST is cool - obviously there is some value here. The collection is eclectic (public domain I suppose), and the UI is pretty nice. I found that recognizing whitespace was possibly something that could be improved a bit, but overall it felt really nice.
That said, this is not for me. One page and I was cooked. I had thought that this might be a decent way to enjoy a novel that I've not read, but one page in I can say:
Not only did I not comprehend what I was typing, I didn't enjoy it at all.
[+] [-] bravura|5 years ago|reply
HST: "If you type out somebody's work, you learn a lot about it. Amazingly it's like music. And from typing out parts of Faulkner, Hemingway, Fitzgerald - these were writers that were very big in my life and the lives of the people around me - so yea I wanted to learn from the best I guess."
http://brianjohnspencer.blogspot.com/2014/06/hunter-s-thomps...
[+] [-] dmix|5 years ago|reply
HST was always great in small rapid outputs of writing, which is captured well in his letters (similar to how his collection of articles are his most popular works, but these deserve a similar look).
He obviously had some sort of ADD and later on combined with a long series of drug/alcohol addictions, so it makes sense he was better in short blurbs. Even his most famous novel Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas has a feeling of multiple long spurts on a typewriter.
Which is always how he wrote. Always also at the very last minute of the magazine due date and/or because he was running out of money and needed the next advance.
I believe this is common in creative fields. Long periods of meh and spurts of greatness.
Anyway the book series is here, usually called the Gonzo Letters:
https://www.goodreads.com/series/64386-the-fear-and-loathing...
Only the 2nd one has a Wikipedia page for some reason (the 3rd one came out in 2014) but the first one (The Proud Highway: The Saga of a Desperate Southern Gentleman 1955–1967) as a young writer who is often desperate and broke was most interesting IMO, even though his life or writing wasn’t yet as it would become famous for (but definitely still as wild) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_and_Loathing_in_America
[+] [-] dredmorbius|5 years ago|reply
Writing (and reading) short disconnected bits is fairly easy: nothing interrelates strongly, composition is simple and forgiving. Longer works are complex: they have structure, arcs, need to retain interest, jumps and connections need to be plausible, the whole be consistent (unless inconsistency is used for effect), etc., etc.
And you don't get this knowledge simply by copying out great works.
I see a similar failure-to-grasp in some proposals for hypertext or advanced publishing systems. Reading is inherently serial, in that we follow lines of text on a page. Interactivity --- usually defined by the ability to skip between previously-written segments --- just offers more serial paths.
The value of hypertext and related tools may be far more on the writing process, where vastly more sources can be referenced and cited with greater ease. Some might be incorporated into the final work, but an excess of interconnections and quotations is itself distracting.
I see this as a particular blindness of Ted Nelson's Xanadu project, despite many fascinating and original elements to it.
[+] [-] yesenadam|5 years ago|reply
Maybe he means like jazz musicians? (I'm one.) Every musician I know has transcribed solos. You pick some solo you like but have no idea what they're doing, transcribe it, and learn to play it along with them. Bits and pieces perhaps will rub off in your own playing. You don't want to sound like them, but it's good to be able to if you want – and for that you need to absorb their style, so your body can just go into that mode, without having to think about it. I'm a piano player but have also transcribed sax, trumpet, bass lines, gospel songs, reggae, funk, .. even taps dripping, babies crying etc etc.
[+] [-] m463|5 years ago|reply
You would not read or download the lessons. You typed all the python in word by word. I think it really helped the learning process to type it out. It was slow and deliberate, even to mistyping and making mistakes (and fix them).
[+] [-] daviddaviddavid|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dfan|5 years ago|reply
This is also why I always type in all the examples from programming books instead of cutting and pasting.
[+] [-] whymauri|5 years ago|reply
The downside is that it's easy to 'overfit' and lose your own voice.
[+] [-] sndwnm|5 years ago|reply
Just like anyone can trace or copy a picture drawn by a master, copying text won't grant understanding. What actually matters for a creator is the ability to produce content from higher level ideas, eg from whatever mental representation you used to hold the writing or drawing in memory.
[+] [-] junon|5 years ago|reply
Programming is the exact same way. If ever I'm in doubt of someone's design and I have an inkling of respect for them, I'll try to design the code from scratch in my head, or sometimes even redesign a toy version myself. This usually surfaces some weird property of the problem that explains their code. You can also go through their thought processes and see exactly how they made decisions along the way. I'd argue you can even infer philosophical viewpoints in some cases, too - all without actually communicating with the author.
I love that about humans. One of the things I really admire about us.
[+] [-] codeisawesome|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mistersquid|5 years ago|reply
Writing does not proceed letter by letter, word by word, paragraph by paragraph.
Earlier writing is deleted, moved, revised. Passages are moved earlier or later. Key passages are rewritten.
Etc.
Typing character-by-character an entire novel will likely teach you little about the act of literary creation.
[+] [-] ponker|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] atulatul|5 years ago|reply
https://youtu.be/oSdLfPas8dw?t=546
[+] [-] taneq|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] proto-n|5 years ago|reply
However, as I started typing The call of Cthulhu, I'm now much more intrigued by this as a new way to read books. It is a very different literary experience from just simply reading. I'm way more attentive to the text itself, rather than just the meaning, if that makes sense. Though it's very possible that this effect is going to go away as I get more used to it.
Any chance of typing out custom uploaded books? Maybe copy pasted plaintext?
Also kudos on the execution, the site is really nicely made.
[+] [-] rozab|5 years ago|reply
I had plenty of basic IT education at school, but was never taught how to type at all.
[+] [-] Octouroboros|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gwd|5 years ago|reply
typeracer.com allows you to submit extracts for people to type; just not entire books.
[+] [-] shavingspiders|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nestorD|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] agumonkey|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] Minor49er|5 years ago|reply
Why not just use this? https://www.typelit.io/chapters/5f468ca35e91c10be0883a57/The...
Also, the JSON object is fault tolerant and will display whatever you want for a title, even if there isn't a book available: https://www.typelit.io/chapters/%7B%22%64%69%73%70%6C%61%79%...
[+] [-] Octouroboros|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] whiddershins|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] puzz|5 years ago|reply
The workflow was:
- you read the sentence
- the sentence disappears
- then you type from memory
- every time you mistype something -- the next couple of words appears for a few seconds and you keep typing
That way you not only learn to type that foreign language. But you also memorise the sentence in your short-time memory and you get a feel for sentences are created (order of words, phrases, etc.).
PS. Didn't finish the site, but I did made a simplified version as an Android app: https://github.com/tkrajina/10000sentences
[+] [-] 082349872349872|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] whoomp12342|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bartread|5 years ago|reply
- I'd prefer if the words not typed were in a lighter shade of grey so there were greater contrast between them and the words I've completed. I know this would reduce contrast with the page but I found the fact that they are such a strong grey to be somewhat of a distraction. Different people will have different preferences here, so maybe a slider or knob that can be used to adjust the contrast of yet to be typed text would be helpful.
- The fact that you can't correct mistakes is a huge annoyance and breaks my typing flow. It also tends to lead to runs of errors since I'll make a mistake, hit backspace, and then carry on typing, meaning I get an off by one error in the next few letters. I understand that you want to help people type with fewer errors but the reality is the way it works at the moment interrupts my flow much more severely than correcting the error would (and leads to far more mistakes), and you can still track the number of mistakes I make even if I'm allowed to correct them. I'd say the ability to correct mistakes should at least be an option that can be enabled or disabled according to the preference of the user.
Hope that's useful and, once again, this is very cool.
[+] [-] gregsadetsky|5 years ago|reply
Does anyone know of a competitive/practice typing site (as TypeLit, or TypeRacer) where you help digitize books (or any sort of document)?
I'm very motivated by TypeRacer's competitions (it's silly, I know), but I would be even more inclined to play if I knew that there was a "greater" purpose...!
I haven't looked into Project Gutenberg's proof reading volunteering. But, something like that? A sort of "good for humanity" reCaptcha (the original one, that helped Google to digitize books)..?
---
Ideas for TypeLit:
- It would be nice if the WPM/ACC counters updated in real time in the upper right corner, not just when changing pages
- The competitive aspect of https://play.typeracer.com/ might not be a perfect fit for your site but just wondering if a leaderboard/social element could work (probably not, but just a thought)
[+] [-] rayrag|5 years ago|reply
https://sourceforge.net/projects/typefaster/
[+] [-] localhost|5 years ago|reply
Based on my experience with that site, which I really love, I'd love to see some additional tracking of keys. The downside of your core idea is that you can't really do the trick of forcing deliberate practice of weak key patterns to engrain them into you.
Some other suggestions for stats, based on what exists on keybr and what I'd like to see
- Time practiced today and stats for today
- Daily streaks to encourage practicing
- Cumulative time practiced
- A 7 day running average of your typing stats
[1] https://keybr.com
[+] [-] indifferentalex|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] agustif|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Octouroboros|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Cthulhu_|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] voxl|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Octouroboros|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] spapas82|5 years ago|reply
I am using linux and chrome with vimium and when I press f (to reveal the links) it doesn't "capture" any links for the books. I also tried it using tab to go to the books and it just jumped over them (!)
I presume you are doing some fancy JS things in the frontend that's why it can't understand the links, however I think it's a little ironic to not be able to use a practice typing site with only your keyboard :)
PS I am not trying to to be the "smart-ass" with my comment, it is honest; if the comment does not seem nice please forgive me, english ain't my primary language :|
[+] [-] jonjacky|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zerubeus|5 years ago|reply
In keybr.com you can provide your own custom text in => Setting => Provide your own custom text.
[+] [-] globular-toast|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rhacker|5 years ago|reply
My only thought was - if I suck at typing, learning it, it's going to be very discouraging getting through just one page. I wonder if it would be better to display just a paragraph at a time. Also as the user finishes a sentence without mistakes to give them a visual reward (kinda like one of those cheap mobile games that shows stars or something). And another reward for finishing a paragraph.
Other than that, I am guessing this will likely help a lot of people learn to type or type faster.
[+] [-] ada1981|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] spidersouris|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] billyruffian|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vladsanchez|5 years ago|reply
- +1 for dynamic metrics (WPM+ACC) while typing, shown at the page dash.
- Consider partnering with publishers to increase your content coverage.
- Add ability to request books
- +10 for Tech books
- Keep it free!
- Gamify the heck out of it. It'll allow you to create revenue streams while keeping it FREE.
KEEP THE FIRE BURNING Octouroboros! ;)
[+] [-] trey-jones|5 years ago|reply
That said, this is not for me. One page and I was cooked. I had thought that this might be a decent way to enjoy a novel that I've not read, but one page in I can say:
Not only did I not comprehend what I was typing, I didn't enjoy it at all.