Moved from the Midwest to the Bay Area, and tech comes in two forms: IT departments at major industrial firms (manufacturing, chemical, pharma, etc), or companies that are eventually bought by West Coast companies. The pay cap is much lower. Becoming a millionaire through stocks and wages is harder, but you will still be in the top 10% of earners overall.
If you want to live in a mansion, the Midwest makes this dream obtainable. Buy a 6 bedroom, lake (reservoir) side, 4k sqr ft home for less than a million. Of if you want an acre of lawn, but not live too far in the country.
What you will find is that people are friendly, as long as you look like them (white). (EDIT: This gets more pronounced the more rural you are. Cities tend to be more accepting. What you will find is that rural areas have more relative sway on thought compared to the West Coast.) Towns outside of major metropolitan areas are dying as most major industries that supported that last two generations have left. Drugs are a huge issue, but its not as obvious because the floor for homelessness is so much lower. The only major infrastructure and building projects that get approved are sports stadiums, because idiots in local government rather have sports teams than functioning schools.
What the Midwest does have is solid engineering and research universities, that graduate thousands of STEM oriented students a year. Unfortunately there are often over an hour from the nearest 250k+ city. I went to one, and I think less than 25% of my friends stayed in state. The brain drain is real.
"What you will find is that people are friendly, as long as you look like them (white)."
Be aware that when people say things like this they often do so to feel virtuous themselves like only they are so enlightened that only they even consider being friendly to non white people.
The idea that people in the Midwest (which has a population of over 65 million people similar to France and the UK) are only friendly to white people is pretty crazy.
I think you will find the engineering brain drain from any US region that doesn't (currently) have high paying tech jobs. I went to Georgia Tech and a significant number of CS grads from there moved to NYC, Bay Area, Seattle, or Austin.
Even between Austin and NYC I've noticed these differences. I'd still take the latent bible thumping in Austin over the insane political cliques of NYC though.
I'm not quite sure on the reliability of this site, but assuming it's reliable...
"And, as icing on the cake, seven of the top 10 most affordable states in the nation are in the Midwest."
Name any big city you've heard of in the Midwest, and it's on the list. Chicago, Detroit, and so on. The list is, for the most part, "rust belt" cities that are all doing pretty well these days.
I'd say the one thing they all have working against them is weather. I'm in Buffalo, and I can see why folks flock to SoCal and places with better weather. Winter can be a real drag sometimes. Working from home makes it much more bearable, commuting in a snow storm can be really rough, dangerous and even deadly.
I'm surprised not to see Madison, WI on this list. Our tech sector has been strong and growing for several decades - locally we have Epic Systems, Exact Sciences, Promega Corporation, Thermo Fisher Scientific, several large insurance companies like American Family Insurance, Sentry Insurance. It might be easy to miss the agglomeration of these companies in one area because some of them are technically in different municipalities than the City of Madison. But it's a great area, and most of the big players here have been spared or even strengthened by the unique circumstances of the pandemic.
Yup, just did this. Got an extra master suite, and 1.75 more bathrooms with much bigger yard and garage for $1100 less. And neighbors that actually talk to you. Not to mention half the price for gas and food. Oh, and the swings aren't chained up. Good-bye LA, I will not miss you one bit.
It's things like this that keep me living in the big city. I can have a mental break, run around naked for 8 hours and be back to normal with no one ever realizing anything happened.
I work for a sizable consulting firm with multiple offices including one in Chicago. We saw a lull during the early months (april-june) of Covid/quarantine, we froze hiring, and a few projects were cancelled (one was a major airline). We had a heavier bench for a short time, and utilization fell 10-20%.
That lull is over, at least in Chicago, and not just our office. We have almost no bench, utilization is reaching 100% for at least tech centric practices, and we're hiring again. Front end, back end, devops, salesforce implementation and integration, you name it, demand is exceeding supply for resources available.
On one hand it's comforting to have job security. But it's also surreal to hear reports about 13% unemployment. These are strange times. It does feel like anyone in the tech profession that we are insulated from the worst effects of this catastrophe. Most of us can easily do our jobs remotely. My brother and his girlfriend are both chefs living together in Chicago. Enhanced unemployment benefits expired in July and their lease ended in August so they both moved back in with their parents. I know what is happening out there but at times I feel like we live in a bubble.
It really makes you wonder how this will go down in the next 5 years. Rents are high in cities because of highly paid workers who are capable of paying those rents. Now the middle class is priced out because their wages have been stagnant despite highly paid workers reliably getting raises. Either wages for the middle class has to go up dramatically, or rents have to crash, and rents aren't going to crash if the whole reason why they went up is because demand from highly paid workers, who haven't gone away. Something will have to give, people can't live in their parents house or commute 3 hours one way forever.
Edit: The below applies to people who don't want kids. I get why you wouldn't want to raise kids in somewhere like NYC (though I can also see the inverse).
I don't comment often on HN but I feel like I had to chime in here with a bunch of questions. These may sound inflammatory but I mean them sincerely, I just don't see where people are coming from. I understand that a lot of the things I'm listing are negatives for some people, I'm just shocked that it seems like they're negatives for 99.99% of people. Like, I'd expect at least a little more of a balance
I don't understand all of the hate for big cities recently. I mean do THAT many people truly hate living in a big vibrant city? Do that many people really want to have to get into their car and drive 25 minutes to the only (probably subpar) ramen shop in town. Does everyone just want a big 6 bedroom house that they can sit in and read/watch TV all day? Are you gonna go out on all that land more often then you would go out to eat world class, multicultural food? No one likes/wants public transit anymore? Having tons of theaters, shops, bars, etc around? You don't want access to the [some of the] most interesting jobs in the world? Surrounded by people who are world class at what they do? Being able to go to a bar and find someone who's a musician, someone who's an actor, someone from wall street, someone who sells hotdogs, etc all in the same place? How could you go from NYC to Madison, WI and not be so bored that you want to blow your brains out? It's a completely different world.
Maybe it's just the midwestern cities that I've been in, but they're all so dead. Everyone just seems to be ok with the status quo. Everyone just goes home and watches TV until work the next day. Maybe once a year they take a beach vacation, and then the other week they have off they see family for the holidays.
I mean yes, I get that it's expensive. I'm just surprised that SO may people have been seemingly staying in this place that they hate, driving up rent prices for everyone who wants to be in the city, just so they could keep whatever job they have. I mean if you really hated the city wouldn't you have looked elsewhere by now? It's not like it's competitive to get a job in one of these midwestern cities, so surely that great job you had in NYC that tied you there would guarantee you a way out of the city.
I worked with two developers in Boston who were DINK (Double Income No Kids) and they sold their Boston condo, moved to the Midwest (Minneapolis) and bought a six bedroom house on a lake and two jet-skis for the same price as their condo. Their cost of living went down tremendously. By their own standards they lost nothing compared to Boston (food/services/entertainment actually got better) except that they had to deal with people on the Coast saying how boring it must be - scratch that - they weren't listening because they were having to much fun on their jet-skis...
Stats are from 2018, any idea what the trend has been in the last six months? Are a significant amount of workers truly leaving places like SF and NYC for a cheaper place in the Midwest?
Yes. Droves of workers who got laid off and graduates who can't find a job. It's impossible to remain in the tech hubs without a job given how incredibly expensive the rent is. The average HN commenters at a comfortable FANG really don't grasp how bad the situation is for the rest of the people.
From what I have read a lot of the movement during COVID has been from major metro are to nearby smaller city.
For example in my midwestern city (Minneapolis) there was a recent article in the paper about home prices in a smaller (but touristy / historic )town ~2 hours away (Duluth,MN). The claim was a lot of people from Minneapolis were moving there.
I've read the same about SF residents moving to Sacramento or something like that.
You can work from home, still hit the office 1-4x a month, see family, etc. so it makes sense.
Minneapolis has a bunch of tech and startups. Microsoft, Cray, Amazon, AWS, Target, Best Buy, then a bunch of medical tech and insurance companies as well as associated startups.
I imagine the med tech AI space will develop here as well. Google is working with the Mayo in Rochester for example.
For people that work in any of these cities, how have you been enjoying it? What sort of tech companies are around? What do the job interviews and salaries out there look like?
For programmers in Indianapolis, there's numerous opportunities. Salesforce has helped advance the salary curve.
Job interviews are pretty straightforward. Nothing like the FAANG grind. Salaries are $80K fresh out of college. Surpassing $200k is doable at places like Salesforce, Eli Lilly, etc..
Lots of "routine" programming jobs are in the $100-$140k range going from Senior to Staff. Higher levels of IC and management of course go up from there.
I live & work in one of these cities and have my entire career. I currently work in a midsized tech company but my experiences and numbers hold with my previous work at a non-tech enterprise.
In general, the numbers I see:
* Individual contributor salaries range from 80k to 120k, with a bonus structure from 6%-8% annually.
* Upper-tier ICs and people managers tend to be around 110k-145k with 8-10% bonuses
Currently as a principal engineer I make ~$165k with a 12% annual bonus target. Previously as an enterprise architect I was on around ~$155k with a 15% bonus. A friend at a senior director level is around $185k and I'm not sure about the bonus but I know it is 15%+.
There are a variety of tech companies in the area, but many jobs are tech jobs at a "non-tech company": banking, insurance, healthcare, manufacturing. Even then, don't underestimate the size and scope of what is done; my last job had an IT department of around 200 and was responsible for running a ton of complex systems.
You'll probably skew towards midsized companies to large enterprises. While there are some regional startup incubators you just don't have the same access to capital that you do in the Bay area.
There's plenty of cultural activities, dining, nightlife - I couldn't be happier.
The biggest risk is likely the limited amount of "slots at the top": there are probably at most a few dozen top-tier positions to fill in this market, so job changes have to be carefully considered and planned.
Chicago is vibrant (lots of restaurants, theaters, etc), easy to get around (great, safe transit and often dense neighborhoods), and cheapish (really solid places to live for just about any budget >$700/month).
This article is misleading about tech jobs, though. They're tech roles at non-tech companies. Even our local unicorns are companies like ShipBob (great co, to be clear, just not that _sexy_).
Not a typical situation, but I work at a FAANG office that's located in the midwest (I grew up here, so it's all I know culture-wise). The salary is great (paid similar to non-bayarea west coast), but the job interview was the same process as with the coasts and there were a lot of good and experienced applicants per position since this is one of the best-paying opportunities here.
Personally, I strongly prefer this to the hustle and bustle of the big and expensive cities - that's my preference though, and I know that it's not for everyone.
Not working at a tech company, but I live in the Des Moines area. I bet most people don't realize Des Moines is a finance and insurance hub, with Wells Fargo as the largest employer, Principal Financial headquartered here, and numerous other insurance companies.
The cost of living is quite low, and it's routinely ranked very highly on the "good places to live" lists that pop up periodically.
I think it runs the gambit, but for sure medical, biotech, and ag companies are huge. One of the biggest and fastest growths we've seen in Madison (even if we weren't cool enough to make the list) is Exact Sciences -- a company that provides and tests mail-in poop kits to test for early signs of colon cancer.
In St. Louis, almost all of the engineers working for me in the past 5 years have had total comp between 100 and 170. New grads were in 60-80 range, but I think one or two job changes should have you at 100 in your first 3-5 years.
Last year I was lured from New York City to one of the US's big 25 metro areas, not in the Midwest.
In New York, I would go to topic-focused programming meetups at Facebook's NYC headquarters and there would be over 200 people there, meeting after meeting. There's nothing like that here. The local university has some tech meetups, and there are some in the city center, but they look nothing like in New York. Due to Covid, I have not gone to any (and they seem to be cancelled any how).
Right now here, there are a handful of job openings that I am well-qualified for, but I can count them on one hand. In New York there are more job openings I could go in for. It's one of the biggest drawbacks in terms of a long term future here.
I have friends in the Phoenix metro area. The Phoenix metro area is larger than the Bay area metro area population wise, but the tech scene is smaller, and it small enough that everyone seems to know each other.
One nice thing in 2000 is as the dot-coms imploded, the job market in New York was not as heavily impacted as the Bay Area market. I started 2000 working for a startup that had IPO'd and ended it working for an investment bank. My salary was bumped up slightly, whereas some more junior people I knew in the Bay Area were laid off as their startups went bust and had trouble finding jobs out there as the market was flooded with junior or even mid-level talent.
I do know good, senior people who are tied to this area for one reason or another, who have moved around the handful of companies that are here. There are only a few big companies here employing a lot of programmers, so just like Phoenix, everybody seems to know each other here. When people are unhappy at my company, they contact former co-workers who moved to one of the other big companies and get pulled into their teams at their companies.
There aren't many "tech" companies, you're working for a Fortune 1000 company in their IT department usually here. Or a smaller company, although startup funding is not fantastic here.
I am not capable of senior level pay on my current stack yet, and a nice, large apartment in a nice, convenient neighborhood is cheaper than in NYC (although not incredibly cheaper). So I don't have much to complain on the salary front. But as it stands, there are less openings on the job market locally, and as I become more senior, it might even feel more constrained. Local companies have trouble attracting and retaining senior talent, and there is a reason for that. My company has been changing compensations rates around and making other changes in order to lure more talent.
Primarily due to the smaller number of job openings locally I don't see much of a long term future here outside of my current company. If I ever decide to look around, it will probably be in New York City or in the Bay Area. And my reasons for going back to New York City would include personal ones. Although one very good young programmer I know said he would prefer New York over San Francisco as he thinks New York would have more of a nightlife etc.
Chicago has a lot of tech jobs, but also a lot of people. 3rd in population and 8th in tech suggests it's the opposite of a hub. I wonder how much of the hiring is companies like McDonalds, United, or Boeing rather than FAANG.
Here I was just recently eyeballing Minneapolis tech jobs and as salaries vs. 5 bedroom non-mcmansion houses with front porch and some woods nearby. Man it's getting to be an interesting sell. Chicago too if NYC is more your vibe.
These jobs are tech roles in non-tech companies. Boeing, United, McDonalds, Koch Industries... all are big in the midwest, all need lots of tech folks, none are particularly techy companies.
All the really good tech people I've met either (1) leave for SV/NY or (2) work for quant trading shops.
For context, FAANG job postings in the midwest are all satellite-office positions: they'll hire good engineers here, but you're kinda working remote in the downtown office at a certain point.
Off-topic - for any other non-Americans wondering why this eastern area is considered western: "The term West was applied to the region in the early years of the country. In the early 19th century, anything west of Appalachia was considered the West"
It's remarkable to see Detroit on this list, and I'd love to learn how they gathered these numbers. Years ago, I heard the quip that "the janitor at Apple is counted as a tech worker, but the supercomputer engineer at Ford is counted as an auto worker".
Clearly this analysis has solved that. Why have so others missed it?
It's not the auto companies that are bringing Detroit up for tech. They are ancient outdated behemoths working on auto focused things. There are a handful of smaller tech companies that do the sexy work for the big 3 though. It's the places like Quicken or Dominos that are putting Detroit on the map for tech.
It is hard to tell if this is general trend or workforce relocation, when only looking at data in these picked cities and for past few years. Job posting data from this year due to pandemic may tell a better story.
Just wait till all the companies start to figure out that they can hire highly talented people in places like the Philippines or India for one tenth of the price of the Midwest.
[+] [-] dexwiz|5 years ago|reply
If you want to live in a mansion, the Midwest makes this dream obtainable. Buy a 6 bedroom, lake (reservoir) side, 4k sqr ft home for less than a million. Of if you want an acre of lawn, but not live too far in the country.
What you will find is that people are friendly, as long as you look like them (white). (EDIT: This gets more pronounced the more rural you are. Cities tend to be more accepting. What you will find is that rural areas have more relative sway on thought compared to the West Coast.) Towns outside of major metropolitan areas are dying as most major industries that supported that last two generations have left. Drugs are a huge issue, but its not as obvious because the floor for homelessness is so much lower. The only major infrastructure and building projects that get approved are sports stadiums, because idiots in local government rather have sports teams than functioning schools.
What the Midwest does have is solid engineering and research universities, that graduate thousands of STEM oriented students a year. Unfortunately there are often over an hour from the nearest 250k+ city. I went to one, and I think less than 25% of my friends stayed in state. The brain drain is real.
[+] [-] jacobriis|5 years ago|reply
Be aware that when people say things like this they often do so to feel virtuous themselves like only they are so enlightened that only they even consider being friendly to non white people.
The idea that people in the Midwest (which has a population of over 65 million people similar to France and the UK) are only friendly to white people is pretty crazy.
[+] [-] sarora27|5 years ago|reply
Grew up (Indian-American) in the midwest and can confirm this is true with a large majority of people there.
If you don't look like them, they will be cordial to your face but then subtly make it very clear how they actually think about you.
[+] [-] pratik661|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] _qulr|5 years ago|reply
Therefore, all generalizations about the Midwest are false stereotypes. The Midwest is large and varied.
[+] [-] RickJWagner|5 years ago|reply
I grew up in snow-white South Dakota. In my hometown of 15,000 I knew of only one African-American family. The father was the town mayor.
I guess we had different experiences.
[+] [-] d33lio|5 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] claydavisss|5 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] humbleMouse|5 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] blakesterz|5 years ago|reply
"And, as icing on the cake, seven of the top 10 most affordable states in the nation are in the Midwest."
Name any big city you've heard of in the Midwest, and it's on the list. Chicago, Detroit, and so on. The list is, for the most part, "rust belt" cities that are all doing pretty well these days.
I'd say the one thing they all have working against them is weather. I'm in Buffalo, and I can see why folks flock to SoCal and places with better weather. Winter can be a real drag sometimes. Working from home makes it much more bearable, commuting in a snow storm can be really rough, dangerous and even deadly.
[+] [-] goodells|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Fiahil|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nirav72|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bobwall|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] konjin|5 years ago|reply
It's things like this that keep me living in the big city. I can have a mental break, run around naked for 8 hours and be back to normal with no one ever realizing anything happened.
[+] [-] silexia|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] padseeker|5 years ago|reply
That lull is over, at least in Chicago, and not just our office. We have almost no bench, utilization is reaching 100% for at least tech centric practices, and we're hiring again. Front end, back end, devops, salesforce implementation and integration, you name it, demand is exceeding supply for resources available.
On one hand it's comforting to have job security. But it's also surreal to hear reports about 13% unemployment. These are strange times. It does feel like anyone in the tech profession that we are insulated from the worst effects of this catastrophe. Most of us can easily do our jobs remotely. My brother and his girlfriend are both chefs living together in Chicago. Enhanced unemployment benefits expired in July and their lease ended in August so they both moved back in with their parents. I know what is happening out there but at times I feel like we live in a bubble.
[+] [-] asdff|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bmd3991|5 years ago|reply
I don't comment often on HN but I feel like I had to chime in here with a bunch of questions. These may sound inflammatory but I mean them sincerely, I just don't see where people are coming from. I understand that a lot of the things I'm listing are negatives for some people, I'm just shocked that it seems like they're negatives for 99.99% of people. Like, I'd expect at least a little more of a balance
I don't understand all of the hate for big cities recently. I mean do THAT many people truly hate living in a big vibrant city? Do that many people really want to have to get into their car and drive 25 minutes to the only (probably subpar) ramen shop in town. Does everyone just want a big 6 bedroom house that they can sit in and read/watch TV all day? Are you gonna go out on all that land more often then you would go out to eat world class, multicultural food? No one likes/wants public transit anymore? Having tons of theaters, shops, bars, etc around? You don't want access to the [some of the] most interesting jobs in the world? Surrounded by people who are world class at what they do? Being able to go to a bar and find someone who's a musician, someone who's an actor, someone from wall street, someone who sells hotdogs, etc all in the same place? How could you go from NYC to Madison, WI and not be so bored that you want to blow your brains out? It's a completely different world.
Maybe it's just the midwestern cities that I've been in, but they're all so dead. Everyone just seems to be ok with the status quo. Everyone just goes home and watches TV until work the next day. Maybe once a year they take a beach vacation, and then the other week they have off they see family for the holidays.
I mean yes, I get that it's expensive. I'm just surprised that SO may people have been seemingly staying in this place that they hate, driving up rent prices for everyone who wants to be in the city, just so they could keep whatever job they have. I mean if you really hated the city wouldn't you have looked elsewhere by now? It's not like it's competitive to get a job in one of these midwestern cities, so surely that great job you had in NYC that tied you there would guarantee you a way out of the city.
[+] [-] swashboon|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] castratikron|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] user5994461|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mox1|5 years ago|reply
For example in my midwestern city (Minneapolis) there was a recent article in the paper about home prices in a smaller (but touristy / historic )town ~2 hours away (Duluth,MN). The claim was a lot of people from Minneapolis were moving there.
I've read the same about SF residents moving to Sacramento or something like that.
You can work from home, still hit the office 1-4x a month, see family, etc. so it makes sense.
[+] [-] sjg007|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] claudiulodro|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rubidium|5 years ago|reply
Job interviews are pretty straightforward. Nothing like the FAANG grind. Salaries are $80K fresh out of college. Surpassing $200k is doable at places like Salesforce, Eli Lilly, etc..
Lots of "routine" programming jobs are in the $100-$140k range going from Senior to Staff. Higher levels of IC and management of course go up from there.
A nice house costs $200k.
[+] [-] 35fbe7d3d5b9|5 years ago|reply
I live & work in one of these cities and have my entire career. I currently work in a midsized tech company but my experiences and numbers hold with my previous work at a non-tech enterprise.
In general, the numbers I see:
* Individual contributor salaries range from 80k to 120k, with a bonus structure from 6%-8% annually.
* Upper-tier ICs and people managers tend to be around 110k-145k with 8-10% bonuses
Currently as a principal engineer I make ~$165k with a 12% annual bonus target. Previously as an enterprise architect I was on around ~$155k with a 15% bonus. A friend at a senior director level is around $185k and I'm not sure about the bonus but I know it is 15%+.
There are a variety of tech companies in the area, but many jobs are tech jobs at a "non-tech company": banking, insurance, healthcare, manufacturing. Even then, don't underestimate the size and scope of what is done; my last job had an IT department of around 200 and was responsible for running a ton of complex systems.
You'll probably skew towards midsized companies to large enterprises. While there are some regional startup incubators you just don't have the same access to capital that you do in the Bay area.
It's ludicrously affordable to live here:
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/43-Fairfie...
I could find a similar home for around $75k.
There's plenty of cultural activities, dining, nightlife - I couldn't be happier.
The biggest risk is likely the limited amount of "slots at the top": there are probably at most a few dozen top-tier positions to fill in this market, so job changes have to be carefully considered and planned.
[+] [-] curiousllama|5 years ago|reply
This article is misleading about tech jobs, though. They're tech roles at non-tech companies. Even our local unicorns are companies like ShipBob (great co, to be clear, just not that _sexy_).
[+] [-] wackk|5 years ago|reply
Personally, I strongly prefer this to the hustle and bustle of the big and expensive cities - that's my preference though, and I know that it's not for everyone.
[+] [-] unknown|5 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] DavidPeiffer|5 years ago|reply
The cost of living is quite low, and it's routinely ranked very highly on the "good places to live" lists that pop up periodically.
[+] [-] encorekt|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] davio|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Mc91|5 years ago|reply
In New York, I would go to topic-focused programming meetups at Facebook's NYC headquarters and there would be over 200 people there, meeting after meeting. There's nothing like that here. The local university has some tech meetups, and there are some in the city center, but they look nothing like in New York. Due to Covid, I have not gone to any (and they seem to be cancelled any how).
Right now here, there are a handful of job openings that I am well-qualified for, but I can count them on one hand. In New York there are more job openings I could go in for. It's one of the biggest drawbacks in terms of a long term future here.
I have friends in the Phoenix metro area. The Phoenix metro area is larger than the Bay area metro area population wise, but the tech scene is smaller, and it small enough that everyone seems to know each other.
One nice thing in 2000 is as the dot-coms imploded, the job market in New York was not as heavily impacted as the Bay Area market. I started 2000 working for a startup that had IPO'd and ended it working for an investment bank. My salary was bumped up slightly, whereas some more junior people I knew in the Bay Area were laid off as their startups went bust and had trouble finding jobs out there as the market was flooded with junior or even mid-level talent.
I do know good, senior people who are tied to this area for one reason or another, who have moved around the handful of companies that are here. There are only a few big companies here employing a lot of programmers, so just like Phoenix, everybody seems to know each other here. When people are unhappy at my company, they contact former co-workers who moved to one of the other big companies and get pulled into their teams at their companies.
There aren't many "tech" companies, you're working for a Fortune 1000 company in their IT department usually here. Or a smaller company, although startup funding is not fantastic here.
I am not capable of senior level pay on my current stack yet, and a nice, large apartment in a nice, convenient neighborhood is cheaper than in NYC (although not incredibly cheaper). So I don't have much to complain on the salary front. But as it stands, there are less openings on the job market locally, and as I become more senior, it might even feel more constrained. Local companies have trouble attracting and retaining senior talent, and there is a reason for that. My company has been changing compensations rates around and making other changes in order to lure more talent.
Primarily due to the smaller number of job openings locally I don't see much of a long term future here outside of my current company. If I ever decide to look around, it will probably be in New York City or in the Bay Area. And my reasons for going back to New York City would include personal ones. Although one very good young programmer I know said he would prefer New York over San Francisco as he thinks New York would have more of a nightlife etc.
[+] [-] slimed|5 years ago|reply
Seriously. Please stay in your coastal enclave. It's terrible here :)
[+] [-] dredmorbius|5 years ago|reply
2. Detroit: 11th , 241,135, 37.2%
3. Minneapolis, 14th, 196,151, 17%
4. Kansas City, 24th, 100,782, 17.3%
5. Cincinnati, 28th, 82,088, 23.9%
6. Cleveland, 29th, 76,698, 16.3%
7. Indianapolis, 31st, 74,615, 24.2%
8. Milwaukee, 32nd, 71,755, 9.2%
9. Omaha, 40th, 37,508, 10.7%
10. Des Moines, 42nd, 28,693, 26.9%
TFW article is basically a textualised spreadsheet.
Not listed: wage levels, cost-of-living, industries, skillsets.
[+] [-] curiousllama|5 years ago|reply
Chicago has a lot of tech jobs, but also a lot of people. 3rd in population and 8th in tech suggests it's the opposite of a hub. I wonder how much of the hiring is companies like McDonalds, United, or Boeing rather than FAANG.
[+] [-] dredmorbius|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dogman144|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] curiousllama|5 years ago|reply
All the really good tech people I've met either (1) leave for SV/NY or (2) work for quant trading shops.
For context, FAANG job postings in the midwest are all satellite-office positions: they'll hire good engineers here, but you're kinda working remote in the downtown office at a certain point.
[+] [-] rezeroed|5 years ago|reply
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midwestern_United_States#Backg...
[+] [-] lliamander|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chrisco255|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] myself248|5 years ago|reply
Clearly this analysis has solved that. Why have so others missed it?
[+] [-] ryathal|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] congxing_cai|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] silexia|5 years ago|reply