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Show HN: GridRoyale, a life simulation for exploring social dynamics

108 points| cool-RR | 5 years ago |github.com | reply

22 comments

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[+] archit3cture|5 years ago|reply
I rencently read a book that touches on such social simulation - "An Introduction to Multiagent systems / Michael Wooldridge".

He mentions p.214-218 such a grid like social simulation that was done in the EOS project, undertaken at the University of Essex in the UK. The goal of the EOS project was to investigate the causes of the emergence of social complexity in Upper Palaeolithic France and they were using a 10000x10000 grid.

You could also be interested in "Simulating Societies using Distributed Artificial Intelligence / Jim Doran"

[+] daxfohl|5 years ago|reply
I remember reading in an old AI textbook that some researchers had done an experiment in genetic algorithms where the goal was just for the program to stay in memory. So, taking all the artificial rules out of the game. And supposedly they observed symbiosis and all sorts of stuff. Can't find that anymore though.
[+] rntksi|5 years ago|reply
This is quite neat.

However, to be honest, the part about how behaviours works at the beginning of the explanation linked, is not.

Society and sociological behaviours (not to mention economical) are more complex than "whatever behaviours sticks around is the fittest". This stems from the fact that one is living in a modern world and is (to a certain extent) well fed, well educated, ...

You only have to look at the multitude of society that have survived until now to see that that kind of thought is not valid. For example, in some tribe, war is stopped when one life is lost (I believe this was Palau), or in others, wives eat the brains of their deceased husband. In some, matriarchy is the norm. Etc.

It is very difficult to conclude a simplistic view of society/sociological behaviours.

[+] nojster|5 years ago|reply
> You only have to look at the multitude of society that have survived until now to see that that kind of thought is not valid

Thinking longer term, it could also be that not enough time has elapsed or that there was/is too little social interaction between all players for one dominant behavior to emerge.

It might also be that there is no one dominant emergent behavior, but several, all contributing to the overarching goal of survival (think Nash equilibrium).

[+] rriepe|5 years ago|reply
> You only have to look at the multitude of society that have survived until now to see that that kind of thought is not valid. For example, in some tribe, war is stopped when one life is lost (I believe this was Palau), or in others, wives eat the brains of their deceased husband. In some, matriarchy is the norm. Etc.

How does this invalidate the thought? It's like saying survival of the fittest isn't valid because of all the different animals that have existed.

[+] fouc|5 years ago|reply
I think you're missing the point. Fitness in this sense has nothing to do with right or wrong or validity. Those examples you gave could be quite "fit" relative to other choices, and thus survive for a good while.

Basically we're talking more about genes and memes, fitness is whatever occasional mutation actually perpetuates, in the particular context/environment. Social behavior is partly memetic, and partly genetic.

[+] antepodius|5 years ago|reply
Whatever behaviours are fit are just the ones that stick around. In, say, the developed world, we have 2 main competitors: have lots of kids, and try to teach them to behave as you do; or have fewer/no kids and try and spread your particular mind-virus to those not carrying it yet.
[+] yters|5 years ago|reply
It might be true in broad strokes. That tribe that commits mass ritual suicide every year is no longer around and no one ever heard of it.
[+] Super_Jambo|5 years ago|reply
Having just read the readme I think this is perhaps missing two layers to model human behavioural 'evolution'. It's a super cool project though despite that and I wonder if you could extend it to put the two missing layers in...

The way I see it you have the evolution of individual humans at the genetic level - so this gives them built in desires and instinctual behaviour.

You then have the learning of the individual over the course of their life. Attachment theory is basically a load of research on how this can go wrong if the very critical early stages of emotional & interpersonal development aren't well supported in childhood.

Finally humans are social creatures, individual humans aren't well adapted to surviving 'in nature' so most of the ~500k years of evolution for humans going from anatomically modern to behaviourally modern there was selection pressure for genes and memes that resulted in survival at the level of human cultures.

I guess this would be quite an increase in scope.

[+] cool-RR|5 years ago|reply
Interesting.

> I guess this would be quite an increase in scope.

That's quite the understatement :)

[+] nlh|5 years ago|reply
This is great and fascinating. Thank you for both sharing and working on this. I only object to one line of your README:

> Like most everyone, I spend a lot of time thinking...

I think you have a higher opinion of “most everyone” than is merited ;)

I’ve starred your repo and am excited to see how it....evolves...(sorry sorry).

[+] tj800x|5 years ago|reply
It would be interesting to model open source contributions using something like this. Perhaps it would reveal something about the economic paradox about why people contribute to open source.