1. School times are way too early for most teens. I am sure that just not having to get up that soon is doing a lot for their overall wellbeing.
2. American high-schools are some of the most toxic environments you could ever be in, and would give the most "hostile workplaces" a run for their money. They suck for the nerdy kid who wants to be left to his / her own devices. They suck for the middling kids who don't want to be on the perpetual status treadmill.
Since quarantine started I've noticed many more teenage daughters tagging along with their moms on errands and walks in the middle of the day.
Probably positive for self-esteem and growth. Perhaps schools now are too focused on academic scores alone and too ignorant of negative social dynamics.
Trust me, high schools outside of the US as well. There’s something about that age span that is very exciting but aggravating at the same time. I am happy for me that I passed without major injuries, physical and mental.
>American high-schools are some of the most toxic environments you could ever be in,
I appreciate the sentiment here, but what??? I went through the biggest high school in my state. It was a meat grinder. But it absolutely pales in comparison to the nasty experiences I had in corporate America. I could write a book on all the nasty legally questionable shit I saw.
One of the things that I remember most from schooling (elementary through high school) was the amount of time spent doing discipline/class management. Or repeating and answering questions. Plus the whole lecture format doesn't work for everyone. Remote school probably cuts down on these things.
Furthermore, for self-directed kids, there's always the possibility of simply going mostly asynchronous, watching lectures and reading textbook at their own pace (which might be faster than regular class now that most distractions are removed!).
So, I like to think of myself as not overly protective, but fairly early on in the pandemic, during the actual shelter-in-place part, my teenage daughter said, "It's not like anything has really changed for me all that much". Ouch. She watched more TV, and via Zoom got to see what everybody else's living rooms looked like, but in the U.S. most professional class kids don't get a lot of free-roaming time anyway, so the only difference is you're trading school time (never their favorite part) for house time. So I'm not sure this means quarantine isn't so bad, more like we have kids in quarantine all the time nowadays compared to a generation ago so it wasn't much of a change.
I went to school in Germany and famously a majority of schools in Germany are half-day. My classes started at 7:30 and ended at 12:45 pm.
I had the afternoon to myself, did a lot of reading and rode my bike around town and into the fields. I still know a lot about topics I just was curious about (alphabets and writing systems across the globe, must have spent hours reading books on those). All that I wouldn't have been able to do with a whole-day school. Although now as a parent, I have to admit that it surely is easier to have your kid in school all day while you are at work.
Isn’t sport massively important in US schools, and for getting into college? That must have been a big change not being able to go to ‘practice’ and all their clubs?
I volunteer with a lot of high-school kids, and from what I've seen, they've been okay for the most part when it comes to mental health, except for those who have toxic families and who use school as an escape (to get out of the house, recharge, etc.). For those kids, it's been really, really hard.
When I first heard the home abuse story I shivered because I had a mere mild version as a late teenager. I literally trained for a marathon because that meant 2-4 hours/day away from the house.
The only good that came out of it was that I studied so freaking hard so I could get a job and move out.
There was no empathy for this demographic, but lots of empathy for 70+ year olds.
The first people I saw to break quarantine laws were teens who met up at the park, then went to someone's house to play basketball.
No school + get to see your friends? Yeah I can see that being good for mental health..
My 29 year old single male friends? Multiple told me they were going to try to get anti depressants. They refused to link it to the quarantine (politically they were in full support of the quarentine).
And me? Unemployment with my 1 year old was fun for 3 months. By month 5, the kid learned how to rule the household. I'm so glad I'm hired and the kid is in daycare.
In march in LA kids basically dropped off the face of the earth in terms of schooling. Parks were closed, but they were playing full court basketball at my local park anyway since march to right now, at the same levels as before the pandemic, with spectators in the bleachers too. Basically teenage summer came early and has been going on for 7 months now.
* When was the last time you had a nightmare about school?
* When was the last time you had a nightmare about work?
Regardless of the average age, I would be surprised if you found that work nightmares are more common than school nightmares. The recurrence of school nightmares even seems to be something of a running joke in our society.
Well, duh. You have to ask someone to use the bathroom. A typical office is stocked with snacks and drinks. You can step away for a walk. We treat kids in school way worse than adults in the white collar working world (we basically treat them like blue collar workers).
Well looking out my window that's because they're having a whale of a time and I I haven't the heart to blame them really. They're roaming the streets here like a herd of frisky wildebeest.
The unintended consequence of the pandemic is that teenagers are getting more sleep, who now don't have to commute to school to start class at 7 am. Maybe this is a case for high schools to continue to teach classes online (or maybe partially online), even after the pandemic?
I heard a school was maintaining 50% capacity by having A and B groups of students. Group A attends school in person Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday morning. Then the rest of the week is online. Group B does the opposite. This seems like a good idea, not only for safety, but for balancing in person interaction and socialization with the flexibility of remote learning. I’m unsure if the classes are taught with both the in person and remote students “together” but that would be even better. It would also allow students that need to go to school full time in person or full time remote a robust infrastructure to do so, instead of an afterthought (like remote has been up until this year, if an option at all).
My kids are a bit younger, but the article reads a lot like our life during the hard quarantine period in Spain.
They couldn't set a foot out of the door for 52 straight days and only walk around the block for a few more weeks, but they adapted perfectly, slept more, never were bored or sad, did great with their remote school tasks, enjoyed the extended family time and even had a fun and instructive peek into adult work life: they were surprisingly insightful and critical about the good and bad aspects of mom&dad jobs.
And while the reason for it was bad and my wife and me were worried, anxious and sleepless, in retrospect our life was good in a lot of ways: The kids were OK, we ate better, we exercised, work got done beyond expectations, we had more free time and discovered that many of the disagreements and tensions in our marriage come from the outside. Being together 24/7 was easier than getting along living the usual crazy "normal life".
This is an odd finding to me. The CDC found that of 18-24 year olds surveyed June 24-30, one in four seriously considered suicide within the past thirty days.
>I find it somewhat incredible that the results would be going essentially in opposite directions so close in age range.
I wonder if the kids studied were more from higher socio-economic strata than the median. The methodology section of the appendix to the study linked[0] by the Atlantic article is vague on socio-economic status.
Since many of those who are on the high end have had significantly less disruption than those on the lower end. If the sample was skewed toward the higher end of the spectrum, perhaps that could account for the results.
It shouldn’t be that surprising. The change in the way your life is structured and how you are treated by society drastically changes after high school.
Oh man this is great. This is basically saying what every other scientific paper has been saying for years. The decrease in the usage of social media led to a decrease in depression in teenagers. It's almost like facebook and instagram are inherently toxic by design and should not exist.
To further clarify a 15% rate of depression in teens is higher than it was in 2017. The article lists in their survey for families who were well off during the pandemic still 15% which is really high. And 33% for those who were not. The fact the article ignores that fact is concerning to me. And makes this seem like a piece trying to claim social media isn't as "bad" as it seems. Claiming that sleep was beneficial for teens. When it in fact is suggestive otherwise that it is negligible.
As a child I really loved being left at home, preferably alone, for as long as possible. So I can have no doubt there are many children who actually enjoy a lock-down. Introverts are real and introvert children can do even better (than adults) entertaining themselves at home.
Considering just my own observations they did well because for the most part many of them totally ignored any of the quarantine advice that was given out an only were impacted by it when establishments they frequent were closed or enforced rules.
If anything it drove more gatherings at each others homes. I have seen an entire wrestling team at homes along with parents around. Seems there was this super brief restraint that suddenly blew out especially when so many didn't want to be inhibited.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." -- Hunter S. Thompson.
My 16 y.o. son is not struggling with quarantine at all, but his education is taking a massive nosedive - something he's not yet mature enough to worry about. So yeah, mental health-wise he's fine. Education-wise he's in a bit of a pickle. I say "a bit" because we've been supplementing his education with STEM tutoring for the past 3 years or so, which is not something poorer people can afford to do. _Those_ kids are fucked like you wouldn't believe. I think we'd be better off canceling the entire school year, furloughing all teachers, and keeping kids in the same grade for the time being.
When I was a teen it would have been very hard. Basically nothing but TV and a landline (and calls "aren't free" as per my parents).
But, as a parent myself now, I can see that my children have stayed in contact with their friends almost continuously with text messaging and audio and video calls. I think that technology has been a tremendous help.
Even school continued remotely on its normal schedule. As others have mentioned, this also allowed more pupils to sleep until later in the morning, which was probably a good thing as well, though obviously the level of physical exercise plummeted.
There was no FOMO because everyone was in quarantine too. A lot of times you were quarantined with your parents, so you have your family to support you.
It's also less stressful, it's ok to skip stuff. Results don't matter as much.
Next year when some of their parents are still unemployed, expectations back, but some kids will be further behind. Everything that seems to matter now will be forgotten.
That's when I'd expect to start seeing them top themselves at an increased demographic level.
Maybe it's just because the article refers to a specific study that surveyed teens from May to July. It's probably hard to make a concise headline that is true to that limitation and also conveys that the pandemic isn't over.
> survey of 1,523 U.S. teens from May to July this year
Given that, I would take this with a grain of salt. Half of that time is summer, when teens normally aren't in school anyway.
So if being able to socialize with friends and peers is an important part of teens' mental health (I think it is), then this study doesn't really cover that very well.
Also, July was a few months ago. It's possible things get worse over the long haul.
[+] [-] kinkrtyavimoodh|5 years ago|reply
2. American high-schools are some of the most toxic environments you could ever be in, and would give the most "hostile workplaces" a run for their money. They suck for the nerdy kid who wants to be left to his / her own devices. They suck for the middling kids who don't want to be on the perpetual status treadmill.
[+] [-] dforrestwilson|5 years ago|reply
Probably positive for self-esteem and growth. Perhaps schools now are too focused on academic scores alone and too ignorant of negative social dynamics.
[+] [-] baxtr|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] poulsbohemian|5 years ago|reply
I appreciate the sentiment here, but what??? I went through the biggest high school in my state. It was a meat grinder. But it absolutely pales in comparison to the nasty experiences I had in corporate America. I could write a book on all the nasty legally questionable shit I saw.
[+] [-] 908B64B197|5 years ago|reply
Furthermore, for self-directed kids, there's always the possibility of simply going mostly asynchronous, watching lectures and reading textbook at their own pace (which might be faster than regular class now that most distractions are removed!).
[+] [-] kyawzazaw|5 years ago|reply
Here in my country, most start at either 8 or 9.
[+] [-] siltpotato|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] rossdavidh|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wirrbel|5 years ago|reply
I had the afternoon to myself, did a lot of reading and rode my bike around town and into the fields. I still know a lot about topics I just was curious about (alphabets and writing systems across the globe, must have spent hours reading books on those). All that I wouldn't have been able to do with a whole-day school. Although now as a parent, I have to admit that it surely is easier to have your kid in school all day while you are at work.
[+] [-] chrisseaton|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] notRobot|5 years ago|reply
:(
[+] [-] marketingPro|5 years ago|reply
The only good that came out of it was that I studied so freaking hard so I could get a job and move out.
There was no empathy for this demographic, but lots of empathy for 70+ year olds.
[+] [-] marketingPro|5 years ago|reply
No school + get to see your friends? Yeah I can see that being good for mental health..
My 29 year old single male friends? Multiple told me they were going to try to get anti depressants. They refused to link it to the quarantine (politically they were in full support of the quarentine).
And me? Unemployment with my 1 year old was fun for 3 months. By month 5, the kid learned how to rule the household. I'm so glad I'm hired and the kid is in daycare.
[+] [-] vbezhenar|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] asdff|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] DavidSJ|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gizmo686|5 years ago|reply
* When was the last time you had a nightmare about school? * When was the last time you had a nightmare about work?
Regardless of the average age, I would be surprised if you found that work nightmares are more common than school nightmares. The recurrence of school nightmares even seems to be something of a running joke in our society.
[+] [-] runawaybottle|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] scandox|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] asdff|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nikk1|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 542354234235|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] noetokyo|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] collyw|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] blaser-waffle|5 years ago|reply
The 18 year old was multi-tasking his Eve Online account + school Zoom meetings. I've been remote like ~5 years and was impressed.
[+] [-] duskwuff|5 years ago|reply
Hey, at least school is teaching him some important life skills!
[+] [-] fcatalan|5 years ago|reply
They couldn't set a foot out of the door for 52 straight days and only walk around the block for a few more weeks, but they adapted perfectly, slept more, never were bored or sad, did great with their remote school tasks, enjoyed the extended family time and even had a fun and instructive peek into adult work life: they were surprisingly insightful and critical about the good and bad aspects of mom&dad jobs.
And while the reason for it was bad and my wife and me were worried, anxious and sleepless, in retrospect our life was good in a lot of ways: The kids were OK, we ate better, we exercised, work got done beyond expectations, we had more free time and discovered that many of the disagreements and tensions in our marriage come from the outside. Being together 24/7 was easier than getting along living the usual crazy "normal life".
[+] [-] tehjoker|5 years ago|reply
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6932a1.htm
Discussion by Glenn Greenwald: https://theintercept.com/2020/08/28/the-social-fabric-of-the...
I find it somewhat incredible that the results would be going essentially in opposite directions so close in age range.
[+] [-] nobody9999|5 years ago|reply
I wonder if the kids studied were more from higher socio-economic strata than the median. The methodology section of the appendix to the study linked[0] by the Atlantic article is vague on socio-economic status.
Since many of those who are on the high end have had significantly less disruption than those on the lower end. If the sample was skewed toward the higher end of the spectrum, perhaps that could account for the results.
[0] https://ifstudies.org/ifs-admin/resources/final-teenquaranti...
Edit: Included the missing link.
[+] [-] kortilla|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] noetokyo|5 years ago|reply
To further clarify a 15% rate of depression in teens is higher than it was in 2017. The article lists in their survey for families who were well off during the pandemic still 15% which is really high. And 33% for those who were not. The fact the article ignores that fact is concerning to me. And makes this seem like a piece trying to claim social media isn't as "bad" as it seems. Claiming that sleep was beneficial for teens. When it in fact is suggestive otherwise that it is negligible.
[+] [-] pgrote|5 years ago|reply
I have the same opinion; there are like three of us.
They are failed experiments and need to end. There is no fixing them at this point and society is worse due to what they've become.
[+] [-] qwerty456127|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Shivetya|5 years ago|reply
If anything it drove more gatherings at each others homes. I have seen an entire wrestling team at homes along with parents around. Seems there was this super brief restraint that suddenly blew out especially when so many didn't want to be inhibited.
[+] [-] m0zg|5 years ago|reply
My 16 y.o. son is not struggling with quarantine at all, but his education is taking a massive nosedive - something he's not yet mature enough to worry about. So yeah, mental health-wise he's fine. Education-wise he's in a bit of a pickle. I say "a bit" because we've been supplementing his education with STEM tutoring for the past 3 years or so, which is not something poorer people can afford to do. _Those_ kids are fucked like you wouldn't believe. I think we'd be better off canceling the entire school year, furloughing all teachers, and keeping kids in the same grade for the time being.
[+] [-] mytailorisrich|5 years ago|reply
But, as a parent myself now, I can see that my children have stayed in contact with their friends almost continuously with text messaging and audio and video calls. I think that technology has been a tremendous help.
Even school continued remotely on its normal schedule. As others have mentioned, this also allowed more pupils to sleep until later in the morning, which was probably a good thing as well, though obviously the level of physical exercise plummeted.
[+] [-] jdlyga|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hammock|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aaron695|5 years ago|reply
It's also less stressful, it's ok to skip stuff. Results don't matter as much.
Next year when some of their parents are still unemployed, expectations back, but some kids will be further behind. Everything that seems to matter now will be forgotten.
That's when I'd expect to start seeing them top themselves at an increased demographic level.
[+] [-] derptron|5 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] p1mrx|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] adrianmonk|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] adrianmonk|5 years ago|reply
Given that, I would take this with a grain of salt. Half of that time is summer, when teens normally aren't in school anyway.
So if being able to socialize with friends and peers is an important part of teens' mental health (I think it is), then this study doesn't really cover that very well.
Also, July was a few months ago. It's possible things get worse over the long haul.