The digital model "Charles Bridge - construction of a pillar and vault field in the 14th century" was created for the project of the virtual exhibition Prague of the Time of Charles IV. The project is supported by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Czech Republic as part of the National Celebrations of the 700th Anniversary of the Birth of Emperor Charles IV and is included in the AV21 Strategy programme."
Fun fact: Charles bridge (depicted in the video) was damaged during a flood in 1890. With the water level risen, broken down rafts were beating its arches and two of them fell apart, along with three pillars that were undermined by the water. During the reconstruction of the pillars, they decided to make them hollow (to cut on the weight) and you can actually go inside! It's not open to the public but there's a video that shows the inside of a pillar number 6 [0].
We are just as smart as our predecessors. We just have a much higher population, a higher % of them are well educated, and we have an enormous body of historical knowledge (as well as easy ways for anyone to access it).
I rather wonder what our descendants will marvel at that we are doing.
Will they think that it was ingenious to design machines in different parts, from different materials, then assembled and shipped to where they are needed? With the limited technology and methods of our time? That we used to engineer and create special machines for these different purposes because in their world, everything you can conceive will come out of replicators [0] instead? Fully functional, no matter which materials it consists of? And humans no longer involved in the design process because a solution was computer generated after stating the purpose of the tool?
There is absolutely no difference between a human from 6000 years ago and one today. You could be an Einstein level genius back then, and likely unable to use any of those skills other than for the optimization of your environment. Also, you likely would not be able to use the bulk of it because your education would be non-existent, so your IQ compared to someone today would be much lower even though your raw intelligence would be higher. Essentially you'd be given an exquisitely crafted very blunt knife.
Many of the cool gadgets are premised, directly or indirectly, on vastly greater energy access.
Prime movers activate transports, lifts, and pumps. Energy and process controls yield more and more uniform or tuned materials. R&D is a phenomenally expensive, but cumulative, process yielding large returns with time.
Precision measurement, coordination, communication, logistics, mamagement, modelling, quality control, and other advances are all based on that initial bolus of energy provided when we realised we could dig and pump up ancient burnable biomass.
Ancient technology was very often no less innovative, only vastly more constrained.
I'd known that most in Slavic means "bridge" dating back to the destruction of the famed Stari Most ("Old Bridge") in Mostar (named for the bridge, or its keepers), Bosnia and Herzegovina, in November 1993 during the Croat–Bosniak War.[1] The bridge was rebuilt in 2004.
> "long pole on a ship, secured as the lower end to the keel, to support the yards, sails, and rigging in general," Old English mæst, from Proto-Germanic masta (source also of Old Norse mastr, Middle Dutch maste, Dutch, Danish mast, German Mast), from PIE mazdo- "a pole, rod" (source also of Latin malus "mast," Old Irish matan "club," Irish maide "a stick," Old Church Slavonic mostu "bridge").
This is also probably the source for Mosul, the city in present-day Iraq, from the Arabic al-Mawsul, literally "the joined," refering to the bridge there.
1. Also called Mostar Bridge, which since the city was named for the bridge-keepers, is a double and self-referential toponym: bridge-keeper-city bridge.
The one thing I don't understand is how the original posts were driven into the river bed. You have to deal with the current, deal with the fact that wood floats, deal with a long post, have to have a means of driving it down far enough, etc. I imagine that nowadays they'd use a pile driver on a huge barge with engines that can automatically compensate for the current, but I can't imagine what the equivalent was back then.
Maybe the original posts didn't need to be that deep--just deep enough to be used as scaffolding for the wooden version of the pile driver to be set up.
They may have also taken advantage of fair weather and seasonal changes. During the dry season, the river would be lower and easier to work with.
You could pre-soak the wood so it's less buoyant, and hold a barge in place with ropes to the riverbanks. I'm not saying that's how they did it, but that's what I would try if I were them. You'd also want to pick the right season when the water flow was the least. You might even be able to dredge a channel so that the water is directed away from the position of the supports. I doubt they had a means of controlling the river flow back then, so I doubt they could have redirected the river into a temporary side channel, but that could also help if possible.
Good question. The video shows the first posts floating in air across the river and dropping magically in-place. These posts are then connected into a kind of scaffolding for the caisson [1]. A pile driver is built on top of the scaffolding that is used to drive the remaining posts that make up the caisson wall but they don't show what powers the pile driver (men?) nor how it is moved post to post along the scaffolding. A water wheel is used to lift the water out of the caisson.
The posts are small compared to modern piles so they will not be overly buoyant. Modern piles are core structural components that are used instead of a caisson so they are quite big.
I was in Rimini, Italy a couple of years ago and came across an ancient bridge called Ponte di Tiberio[1]. It's mind blowing to see modern cars plying on a bridge that was built nearly 2000 years ago.
Those little intermediate piers were probably the slowest part of the on site work. And the most vulnerable part of the bridge, because that's what gets eroded. It's still the biggest cause of bridge failure.
It's to bad the animation doesn't convey this information very well. Also all the manual labor and additional tools like boats involved. At the beginning the poles just fall out of thin air until they use some sort of pile driver to ram them in.
It looks similar to the description of the bridge being built in "World without End" by Ken Follett. One bit that is missing from this animation is that there is no rubble placed in the water around the piers. In the book this had the all important function of preventing the foundations from being washed out by the river. Maybe that was fiction or it was too much detail for the animators since the water is not transparent.
I expected there to be some kind of "foundations"?
i.e. once the water is out of the enclosure, you have a surface that is likely to be soft wet mud or sand. Surely you want to scoop some out, dig down and lay some big blocks of stone under the river bed level?
Or maybe that happens, but was just not shown. Or maybe, once you start building up, the sheer weight pushes the whole column down until it settles.
Informal learning, at places (eg museums) and on the web (education and outreach sites), is a recognized and institutionalized part of public education and outreach. And when something, like this gif, catches public attention, related resources will be linked. A little bit. In an unprepared, ad hoc, shallow, and unfunded kind of way.
A "teachable moment" is an transient opportunity to offer insight. And unplanned opportunity, but one a teacher trains and prepares for.
With viral content reaching so many, are we missing an opportunity by not being organized to exploit them as teachable moments? To rapidly and reactively link related content? History, transport, economics, construction. Might not a spike of viral be broadened, by better facilitating people following up on whatever aspect of the spike tickled their interest?
The compressed timescale makes things harder. But also easier - coping with the severe content-creation bottleneck of copyright is easier in a transient context.
How might we explore this space? Perhaps strengthen the existing "here's something related and interesting" pattern by aggregating and propagating such? A tweet "here are some links from HN", and an HN comment "here are some links from the twitter discussion"? Those are variously suboptimal, so what else?
Great video, but could have used a scale reference. The pile driver at 00:21 looks to me to be about 30-40', but the wikipedia page for pile drivers suggests it's probably <25' tall. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pile_driver
It's also unclear how the piledriver gets re-positioned for each pile. It does not look readily movable.
So so very cool.
Saving this in the reference pile, for when people argue “we are more advanced as a society” extrapolates to “I am more advanced as a person”
It's interesting that this bridge is still around. It seems like most of that society's energy was concentrated on building this bridge, and physical infrastructure of that nature. Its best minds and hands were at work.
Similarly, in San Francisco, many people live in 100 year old houses. It's not like we discovered better "must have" ways of building houses that made the old ones obsolete.
I honestly think things like the Linux kernel (going on 25 years) and LLVM (going on nearly 20 years) will still be around in 100 or 500 years, and basically nobody will have the time or a reason to rebuild them. Kind of like the PC BIOS is still around.
People won't really be working much in those areas, but rather on top. Just like we kind of build "on top" of houses now. It's infrastructure that we can use to make progress in other areas. It reminds me of "How Buildings Learn" by Stewart Brand.
Nice animation, but I bear in mind that stuff that is presented like this is really just hearsay - we don't really know that it was built as presented. It could well have been built as shown - its a plausible hypothesis. But it is also plausible that the bridges were only built in the 18th century. Or maybe they were built 100's of years earlier.
With any historical claims, we should have access to the source to be able to confirm.
"Throughout its history, Charles Bridge has suffered several disasters and witnessed many historic events. Czech legend has it that construction began on Charles Bridge at 5:31am on 9 July 1357 with the first stone being laid by Charles IV himself. This exact time was very important to the Holy Roman Emperor because he was a strong believer in numerology and felt that this specific time, which formed a palindrome (1357 9, 7 5:31), was a numerical bridge, and would imbue Charles Bridge with additional strength.[4]"
Where 4 is:
"Frucht, Richard (2005). Eastern Europe : an introduction to the people, lands, and culture. 1. Santa Barbara, CA: ABC-CLIO. pp. 251. ISBN 9781576078013."
When you search that book on archive.org though, there are no references to "1357", "5:31", "numerology". There is a single reference to "numerical" but this relates to 1944.
So we have a paragraph in wiki, that has some very specific information, that it claims is from a book that doesn't seem to contain that info.
This is to say that 'we' don't know anything about this bridge - the sources do not check out.
I was hoping to get a little further than this. I wanted to track the primary or secondary source for this claim about the bridge build date. But I couldn't even get that far.
What should one conclude, when the detailed information being provided does not check (or should that 'Czech') out?
Great animation but they seem to have omitted a very key part of the construction process, without which the bridge would possibly not have been completed: https://isc.cvut.cz/czechculturecourse/?p=2274
[+] [-] _Microft|5 years ago|reply
Its description says
"3D graphics and post-production: Tomáš Mustlek
Professional cooperation: Ing. Arch. Ondřej Šefců Graphic cooperation: Mgr. Zdeněk Mazač
More information about Charles Bridge can be found at http://praha-archeologicka.cz/p/212
The digital model "Charles Bridge - construction of a pillar and vault field in the 14th century" was created for the project of the virtual exhibition Prague of the Time of Charles IV. The project is supported by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Czech Republic as part of the National Celebrations of the 700th Anniversary of the Birth of Emperor Charles IV and is included in the AV21 Strategy programme."
[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJgD6gyi0Wk
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Bridge
[+] [-] yread|5 years ago|reply
http://praha-archeologicka.cz/p/212
[+] [-] dang|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dredmorbius|5 years ago|reply
https://youtube.com/watch?v=1TDhX6tu30M
[+] [-] frankjr|5 years ago|reply
[0] https://www.novinky.cz/domaci/clanek/jak-vypada-karluv-most-...
[+] [-] aunlead|5 years ago|reply
1:26' into the video - Is that guy praying? Read there are statues of Saints on the bridge.
Found an image of 1872 flood - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Bridge#/media/File:FFr...
[+] [-] DoofusOfDeath|5 years ago|reply
Seeing stuff like this, and reading ancient political / philosophical writings, gives me a much-needed reality check.
[+] [-] DavidHm|5 years ago|reply
We are just as smart as our predecessors. We just have a much higher population, a higher % of them are well educated, and we have an enormous body of historical knowledge (as well as easy ways for anyone to access it).
"On the shoulder of giants" etc.
[+] [-] _Microft|5 years ago|reply
Will they think that it was ingenious to design machines in different parts, from different materials, then assembled and shipped to where they are needed? With the limited technology and methods of our time? That we used to engineer and create special machines for these different purposes because in their world, everything you can conceive will come out of replicators [0] instead? Fully functional, no matter which materials it consists of? And humans no longer involved in the design process because a solution was computer generated after stating the purpose of the tool?
[0] https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Replicator
[+] [-] jacquesm|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dredmorbius|5 years ago|reply
Prime movers activate transports, lifts, and pumps. Energy and process controls yield more and more uniform or tuned materials. R&D is a phenomenally expensive, but cumulative, process yielding large returns with time.
Precision measurement, coordination, communication, logistics, mamagement, modelling, quality control, and other advances are all based on that initial bolus of energy provided when we realised we could dig and pump up ancient burnable biomass.
Ancient technology was very often no less innovative, only vastly more constrained.
[+] [-] FrankyHollywood|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ReptileMan|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dredmorbius|5 years ago|reply
I'd known that most in Slavic means "bridge" dating back to the destruction of the famed Stari Most ("Old Bridge") in Mostar (named for the bridge, or its keepers), Bosnia and Herzegovina, in November 1993 during the Croat–Bosniak War.[1] The bridge was rebuilt in 2004.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stari_Most
A related English word is mast:
> "long pole on a ship, secured as the lower end to the keel, to support the yards, sails, and rigging in general," Old English mæst, from Proto-Germanic masta (source also of Old Norse mastr, Middle Dutch maste, Dutch, Danish mast, German Mast), from PIE mazdo- "a pole, rod" (source also of Latin malus "mast," Old Irish matan "club," Irish maide "a stick," Old Church Slavonic mostu "bridge").
https://www.etymonline.com/word/mast
This is also probably the source for Mosul, the city in present-day Iraq, from the Arabic al-Mawsul, literally "the joined," refering to the bridge there.
https://www.etymonline.com/word/Mosul
Bridge itself comes from proto-Germanic brugjo, "log, beam".
https://www.etymonline.com/word/bridge
The French pont is from Latin pons, bridge, earlier "connecting gallery, walkway".
https://www.etymonline.com/word/pons
________________________________
Notes:
1. Also called Mostar Bridge, which since the city was named for the bridge-keepers, is a double and self-referential toponym: bridge-keeper-city bridge.
[+] [-] irrational|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nyghtly|5 years ago|reply
They may have also taken advantage of fair weather and seasonal changes. During the dry season, the river would be lower and easier to work with.
[+] [-] 01100011|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sradman|5 years ago|reply
The posts are small compared to modern piles so they will not be overly buoyant. Modern piles are core structural components that are used instead of a caisson so they are quite big.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caisson_(engineering)
[+] [-] unknown|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] baq|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] woadwarrior01|5 years ago|reply
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponte_di_Tiberio_(Rimini)
[+] [-] rjtavares|5 years ago|reply
Also relevant: Hardcore History's "Thor Angels" episode has some great insights over the post-roman life in Europe.
[+] [-] yread|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Animats|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aequitas|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] galgalesh|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] intrasight|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] microtherion|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] azepoi|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] b0rsuk|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] prennert|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] SideburnsOfDoom|5 years ago|reply
i.e. once the water is out of the enclosure, you have a surface that is likely to be soft wet mud or sand. Surely you want to scoop some out, dig down and lay some big blocks of stone under the river bed level?
Or maybe that happens, but was just not shown. Or maybe, once you start building up, the sheer weight pushes the whole column down until it settles.
[+] [-] rimliu|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] PoignardAzur|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] coder1001|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ainiriand|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] azepoi|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] dalbasal|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mncharity|5 years ago|reply
Informal learning, at places (eg museums) and on the web (education and outreach sites), is a recognized and institutionalized part of public education and outreach. And when something, like this gif, catches public attention, related resources will be linked. A little bit. In an unprepared, ad hoc, shallow, and unfunded kind of way.
A "teachable moment" is an transient opportunity to offer insight. And unplanned opportunity, but one a teacher trains and prepares for.
With viral content reaching so many, are we missing an opportunity by not being organized to exploit them as teachable moments? To rapidly and reactively link related content? History, transport, economics, construction. Might not a spike of viral be broadened, by better facilitating people following up on whatever aspect of the spike tickled their interest?
The compressed timescale makes things harder. But also easier - coping with the severe content-creation bottleneck of copyright is easier in a transient context.
How might we explore this space? Perhaps strengthen the existing "here's something related and interesting" pattern by aggregating and propagating such? A tweet "here are some links from HN", and an HN comment "here are some links from the twitter discussion"? Those are variously suboptimal, so what else?
[+] [-] khazhoux|5 years ago|reply
It's also unclear how the piledriver gets re-positioned for each pile. It does not look readily movable.
[+] [-] pftburger|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chubot|5 years ago|reply
Similarly, in San Francisco, many people live in 100 year old houses. It's not like we discovered better "must have" ways of building houses that made the old ones obsolete.
I honestly think things like the Linux kernel (going on 25 years) and LLVM (going on nearly 20 years) will still be around in 100 or 500 years, and basically nobody will have the time or a reason to rebuild them. Kind of like the PC BIOS is still around.
People won't really be working much in those areas, but rather on top. Just like we kind of build "on top" of houses now. It's infrastructure that we can use to make progress in other areas. It reminds me of "How Buildings Learn" by Stewart Brand.
[+] [-] geogra4|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] feralimal|5 years ago|reply
With any historical claims, we should have access to the source to be able to confirm.
On the wiki page that was posted we read:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Bridge
"Throughout its history, Charles Bridge has suffered several disasters and witnessed many historic events. Czech legend has it that construction began on Charles Bridge at 5:31am on 9 July 1357 with the first stone being laid by Charles IV himself. This exact time was very important to the Holy Roman Emperor because he was a strong believer in numerology and felt that this specific time, which formed a palindrome (1357 9, 7 5:31), was a numerical bridge, and would imbue Charles Bridge with additional strength.[4]"
Where 4 is:
"Frucht, Richard (2005). Eastern Europe : an introduction to the people, lands, and culture. 1. Santa Barbara, CA: ABC-CLIO. pp. 251. ISBN 9781576078013."
https://archive.org/details/easterneuropeint0000unse/page/25...
When you search that book on archive.org though, there are no references to "1357", "5:31", "numerology". There is a single reference to "numerical" but this relates to 1944.
So we have a paragraph in wiki, that has some very specific information, that it claims is from a book that doesn't seem to contain that info.
This is to say that 'we' don't know anything about this bridge - the sources do not check out.
I was hoping to get a little further than this. I wanted to track the primary or secondary source for this claim about the bridge build date. But I couldn't even get that far.
What should one conclude, when the detailed information being provided does not check (or should that 'Czech') out?
[+] [-] vivekd|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mncharity|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] smcl|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yread|5 years ago|reply
http://medievalnews.blogspot.com/2010/01/eggs-not-used-to-bu...