Meyn originally posted content to the channel without Lehrer’s permission and called him from overseas in December 2008 to apologize, a conversation he later posted on the “Tom Lehrer!” Facebook page. An excerpt:
TL: Well, you see, I'm fine with that channel.
EM: You're very kind. But my question is: Who in your family will take care of your copyright and your songs in the distant future?
TL: I don't have a family.
EM: OK, but what do you think will happen to the channel and your songs? And if you have someone who will act on your behalf, could you give them my name in case they'd want the channel taken down?
TL: Yes, but there's no need to remove that channel.
EM: I was just wondering what will happen in the future, because you're certainly going to continue to sell records.
TL: Well, I don't need to make money after I'm dead. These things will be taken care of.
EM: I feel like I gave away some of your songs to public domain without even asking you, and that wasn't very nice of me.
TL: But I'm fine with that, you know.
EM: Will you establish any kind of foundation or charity or something like that?
> EM: Will you establish any kind of foundation or charity or something like that?
> TL: No, I won't. They're mostly rip-offs.
Having interned/worked in three INGOs (Save the Children, World Concern and UNICEF) for a total of ~2 years, and having a family member who have worked in a well-known French NGO (ACF International)for 3+ years, I have to agree with this assessment.
That's why when I donate money to charities, I'm very selective and make sure the charities I donate are NOT affiliated with religion (ahem, Save the Children and World Concern) or any political agenda (UNICEF). The truth in INGOs is that they need constant stream of funding and sometimes, they make up/exaggerate stuff to help drive the donations.
Worse is, when you actually work with people in NGOs, you'll find there is a stark difference in pay and benefits between foreigner (usually white or English speaking) and the local/native employees although the latter are the ones who know much more about the actual problems. Regional directors in UNICEF come and go every two years or less and they always can't wait to get out of the shithole third world country that they are supposed to be helping about. They and their fellow (foreign) workers are also paid very well with car, housing and children education benefits (all of which I'm not opposed to, but I'm sure as hell that they cannot find an equally well-paying job with their degrees and credentials in their home countries). Plus you never find these regional directors and management people at work (meaning, they show up to work like maybe once a week if we are lucky; no, they are not in the field working, which is left to the native employees of said INGO).
Oh man, THANK YOU for this. What an amazing article!
>He grew up on Manhattan's Upper East Side, the son of a pioneering necktie manufacturer, James Lehrer
That's just hilarious. I can't think of anything more appropriate than a necktie manufacturer family.
In any case, if anyone is unfamiliar with Tom Lehrer, I encourage you to take a wiki dive and then listen to his music. This guy taught mathematics at Harvard, then accidentally sold 10,000 copies of a vinyl of his songs in a few weeks, then went on to tour the US and the world.
His works remain some of the brightest, most convivial, most haunting and poignant works of song to date. He sings clever happy songs of things like pollution, patricide, nuclear holocaust, arson, murder, racism, plagiarism, criminal boy scouts, disease and crime in Mexico and, of course, the eternal desire of the common man to poison pigeons in the park.
Like "Weird Al" Yankovic says in that article, Tom Lehrer remains the modern Tom Lehrer today. There's just no one like him and the way his songs have remained so relevant up to this day is something I find myself in awe of. He just... took a look at society, grokked it on a primordial level and wrote songs that I will end up teaching my kids and they'll go "Wait, they had these things 80 years ago?"
EDIT: Also, OP title is wrong, Lehrer simply released his LYRICS to the public domain. My copy of "Too Many Songs by Tom Lehrer" with musical notation remains relevant, yay!
This was an opengl programming class for graduate students or senior compsci majors. He was really just saying make sure to build on other people's work and don't always just reinvent the wheel.
One of the other comments mentioned how Tom Lehrer's song have remained relevant. This song is a gem, but I'd forgotten the last lines (from the video in sibling comment):
"In German oder Englisch, I know how to count down
And I'm learning Chinese, says Wernher von Braun."
Reminds me of The Good Old Bad Old Days of the South African arms industry.....
...built entirely to circumvent sanctions and fight "Die Swart Gevaar/Rooi Gevaar"... ("Black Danger" / "Red (Communist) Danger")
When the changes came they continued on without missing a beat except their number one problem now was to convince someone to continue paying them to carry on making munitions.
This man had a huge impact on my outlook to life as a youth and helped create a framework for me to disassemble difficult issues in the world around me. Picking through arguments and finding the absurdities is an artform, turning them into compositions is pure genius. I learned that scary things could, and should be defanged, dried and hung for public display rather than feared in the shadows.
I love you Tom, I always have. This move is one more song, one more satirical poke at the music industrial complex
The "Tom Lehrer Trust" probably has a budget, and they've probably already paid the server/domain fees until then but have no plans for the trust to cover renewal.
Oh man. I posted here about this before, but almost exactly four years ago a friend and I put on a concert of our own favorite Tom Lehrer songs to great enthusiasm. By what must be total coincidence, just a few days ago I had posted some videos of that concert to youtube, keeping my fingers crossed they wouldn't get copystriked... and now I wake up to this. I knew of his permissive attitude toward copyright, but I wasn't expecting him to make it official.
When I was in college, I noticed that Tom Lehrer was teaching a math course "Nature of Math" and took it. Great intro to all sorts of historical details like how people competed to solve quartic equations in the 1500s, etc, all delivered with that special Tom Lehrer joking attitude. It was also my introduction to the birthday paradox, which was presented entirely without reference to hash tables.
After I finished, I had to decide between TAing that course, or working on an undergraduate thesis; I did the latter, which helped launch my career, but I regret not working with Tom.
A question for the lawyers among us: is there any effective difference between granting all these permissions vs actually putting them into public domain?
Tom says “In other words, all the lyrics herein should be treated as though they were in the public domain”, emphasis mine. That’s what got me curious.
Does Tom effectively still hold some rights that are not afforded by “true” public domain?
In the United States, copyright is automatic and exists until expired. Nothing in the federal statute allows an entity to terminate copyright, effectively putting works in the public domain.
The United States also allows authors (and heirs), except work-for-hires, to clawback copyright transfers and terminate licenses after 35 years. This is an inalienable statutory right, which means it cannot be waived even with a contract.
In some EU countries (for example Poland) copyright is separated into "personal" and "economic" rights.
You can give up the economic rights and these are inherited and you can trade them.
Personal rights cannot be traded or inherited and remain with the author till their death. So you cannot change the text without author's permission, you cannot lie about who wrote something, and author can prevent you from using his art for a different purpose (for example if you wrote a song and somebody used it as a military recruitment ad and you're a pacifist - that sort of thing).
The thing that gets me is when he goes "I don't have a family" because I guarantee that some long lost "relatives" will suddenly appear after he dies. Many copyrighted works are held by distant relatives hoping to cash in on them somehow, even decades after they've faded from public memory.
i did this one (independently) as "There's water, fire, air, and earth <stop abruptly>" following the cadence of the original more closely. interesting to see lehrer make the opposite decision, to break with the tune and space out and emphasise each element a little more; i think i prefer my version because it ends just as the audience is catching on, which makes the punchline funnier.
Not to mention a whole lot of intermediate-level piano sheet music! At 92, a fine gift to those younger generations who want to get in on some irreverent fun.
I remember reading about an ELI5: The "Old Math" in Tom Lehrer's New Math. That post was funny.
If you haven't heard the song, he describes the way they used to do math as follows:
Consider the following subtraction problem, which I will put up here: 342 minus 173. Now, remember how we used to do that:
Three from two is nine, carry the one, and if you're under 35 or went to a private school, you say seven from three is six, but if you're over 35 and went to a public school, you say eight from four is six ...and carry the one, so we have 169.
Hearing Tom Lehrer perform live from some of his albums is also a revelation. There are times when some of his on-stage jokes fall flat, yet he recovers with aplomb and gets the audience on his side again.
You see there used to be this thing called common sense back in the day ;)
We tried to do a song parody version of The Elements, but using only Pokemon names. It was enormous fun, until you realize nothing rhymes with Pickachu, or Charmander, or Bulbasaur, or any of them for that matter. That lead to a discussion of how to write a Python script to test for like word endings on combinations of 888 pairs, etc. These songs have an almost mystical power to open minds. And observe there is this property to the universe known as "intelligence"
[+] [-] dang|5 years ago|reply
Meyn originally posted content to the channel without Lehrer’s permission and called him from overseas in December 2008 to apologize, a conversation he later posted on the “Tom Lehrer!” Facebook page. An excerpt:
TL: Well, you see, I'm fine with that channel.
EM: You're very kind. But my question is: Who in your family will take care of your copyright and your songs in the distant future?
TL: I don't have a family.
EM: OK, but what do you think will happen to the channel and your songs? And if you have someone who will act on your behalf, could you give them my name in case they'd want the channel taken down?
TL: Yes, but there's no need to remove that channel.
EM: I was just wondering what will happen in the future, because you're certainly going to continue to sell records.
TL: Well, I don't need to make money after I'm dead. These things will be taken care of.
EM: I feel like I gave away some of your songs to public domain without even asking you, and that wasn't very nice of me.
TL: But I'm fine with that, you know.
EM: Will you establish any kind of foundation or charity or something like that?
TL: No, I won't. They're mostly rip-offs.
[+] [-] programmertote|5 years ago|reply
> TL: No, I won't. They're mostly rip-offs.
Having interned/worked in three INGOs (Save the Children, World Concern and UNICEF) for a total of ~2 years, and having a family member who have worked in a well-known French NGO (ACF International)for 3+ years, I have to agree with this assessment.
That's why when I donate money to charities, I'm very selective and make sure the charities I donate are NOT affiliated with religion (ahem, Save the Children and World Concern) or any political agenda (UNICEF). The truth in INGOs is that they need constant stream of funding and sometimes, they make up/exaggerate stuff to help drive the donations.
Worse is, when you actually work with people in NGOs, you'll find there is a stark difference in pay and benefits between foreigner (usually white or English speaking) and the local/native employees although the latter are the ones who know much more about the actual problems. Regional directors in UNICEF come and go every two years or less and they always can't wait to get out of the shithole third world country that they are supposed to be helping about. They and their fellow (foreign) workers are also paid very well with car, housing and children education benefits (all of which I'm not opposed to, but I'm sure as hell that they cannot find an equally well-paying job with their degrees and credentials in their home countries). Plus you never find these regional directors and management people at work (meaning, they show up to work like maybe once a week if we are lucky; no, they are not in the field working, which is left to the native employees of said INGO).
[+] [-] reagent_finder|5 years ago|reply
>He grew up on Manhattan's Upper East Side, the son of a pioneering necktie manufacturer, James Lehrer
That's just hilarious. I can't think of anything more appropriate than a necktie manufacturer family.
In any case, if anyone is unfamiliar with Tom Lehrer, I encourage you to take a wiki dive and then listen to his music. This guy taught mathematics at Harvard, then accidentally sold 10,000 copies of a vinyl of his songs in a few weeks, then went on to tour the US and the world.
His works remain some of the brightest, most convivial, most haunting and poignant works of song to date. He sings clever happy songs of things like pollution, patricide, nuclear holocaust, arson, murder, racism, plagiarism, criminal boy scouts, disease and crime in Mexico and, of course, the eternal desire of the common man to poison pigeons in the park.
Like "Weird Al" Yankovic says in that article, Tom Lehrer remains the modern Tom Lehrer today. There's just no one like him and the way his songs have remained so relevant up to this day is something I find myself in awe of. He just... took a look at society, grokked it on a primordial level and wrote songs that I will end up teaching my kids and they'll go "Wait, they had these things 80 years ago?"
EDIT: Also, OP title is wrong, Lehrer simply released his LYRICS to the public domain. My copy of "Too Many Songs by Tom Lehrer" with musical notation remains relevant, yay!
[+] [-] kyrra|5 years ago|reply
The song: https://youtu.be/gXlfXirQF3A
"Don't shade your eyes, plagiarize."
This was an opengl programming class for graduate students or senior compsci majors. He was really just saying make sure to build on other people's work and don't always just reinvent the wheel.
[+] [-] einpoklum|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lr1970|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 205guy|5 years ago|reply
"In German oder Englisch, I know how to count down And I'm learning Chinese, says Wernher von Braun."
[+] [-] thaumasiotes|5 years ago|reply
but some feel our attitude should be one of gratitude /
like the widows and cripples in old London town /
who owe their large pensions to Werner von Braun
[+] [-] Diederich|5 years ago|reply
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTKn1aSOyOs&t=63
He is amazingly talented across many different axes.
[+] [-] dllthomas|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] alangibson|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jjkaczor|5 years ago|reply
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/For_All_Mankind_(TV_series)#So...
[+] [-] unethical_ban|5 years ago|reply
I know how to count down...
Und I'm learning Chinese",
Says Werner von Braun
---
Pretty prophetic for 1962, pre-moon-landing.
[+] [-] gHosts|5 years ago|reply
...built entirely to circumvent sanctions and fight "Die Swart Gevaar/Rooi Gevaar"... ("Black Danger" / "Red (Communist) Danger")
When the changes came they continued on without missing a beat except their number one problem now was to convince someone to continue paying them to carry on making munitions.
[+] [-] el_don_almighty|5 years ago|reply
I love you Tom, I always have. This move is one more song, one more satirical poke at the music industrial complex
[+] [-] ipsum2|5 years ago|reply
I've never seen a website with a specific shut down time. I wonder why he put it there.
[+] [-] vortico|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jimmcslim|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] teruakohatu|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ajuc|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gnulinux|5 years ago|reply
Because they're gonna shut down on Dec 31 2024? Would you prefer them shutting down without a notice?
[+] [-] apricot|5 years ago|reply
Me neither, but I think it's a wonderful idea.
[+] [-] thirteenfingers|5 years ago|reply
Mr. Lehrer, thank you for brightening our lives.
[+] [-] dekhn|5 years ago|reply
After I finished, I had to decide between TAing that course, or working on an undergraduate thesis; I did the latter, which helped launch my career, but I regret not working with Tom.
[+] [-] dang|5 years ago|reply
2020 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24279151
2018 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18036813
2018 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16774608
2015 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10684409
2015 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10675682
[+] [-] k_sze|5 years ago|reply
Tom says “In other words, all the lyrics herein should be treated as though they were in the public domain”, emphasis mine. That’s what got me curious.
Does Tom effectively still hold some rights that are not afforded by “true” public domain?
[+] [-] andreareina|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] athms|5 years ago|reply
In the United States, copyright is automatic and exists until expired. Nothing in the federal statute allows an entity to terminate copyright, effectively putting works in the public domain.
The United States also allows authors (and heirs), except work-for-hires, to clawback copyright transfers and terminate licenses after 35 years. This is an inalienable statutory right, which means it cannot be waived even with a contract.
[+] [-] ajuc|5 years ago|reply
You can give up the economic rights and these are inherited and you can trade them.
Personal rights cannot be traded or inherited and remain with the author till their death. So you cannot change the text without author's permission, you cannot lie about who wrote something, and author can prevent you from using his art for a different purpose (for example if you wrote a song and somebody used it as a military recruitment ad and you're a pacifist - that sort of thing).
[+] [-] jandrese|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pg_bot|5 years ago|reply
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIKGV2cTgqA
[+] [-] unknown|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] C1sc0cat|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chrismorgan|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] phobosanomaly|5 years ago|reply
Tom Lehrer - So Long Mom (A Song for WW III) - with intro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDFqoReof6A
Sorry about the intro, it was the shortest weird, long intro on this video I could find on YouTube.
[+] [-] ummwhat|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 082349872349872|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] taejo|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zem|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] timoth3y|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dllthomas|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] panpanna|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thombles|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rvense|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Avernar|5 years ago|reply
If you haven't heard the song, he describes the way they used to do math as follows:
Consider the following subtraction problem, which I will put up here: 342 minus 173. Now, remember how we used to do that:
Three from two is nine, carry the one, and if you're under 35 or went to a private school, you say seven from three is six, but if you're over 35 and went to a public school, you say eight from four is six ...and carry the one, so we have 169.
[+] [-] jedberg|5 years ago|reply
There's.... Earth and Air and Fire and Water.
[+] [-] sohkamyung|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] microtherion|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ArtWomb|5 years ago|reply
We tried to do a song parody version of The Elements, but using only Pokemon names. It was enormous fun, until you realize nothing rhymes with Pickachu, or Charmander, or Bulbasaur, or any of them for that matter. That lead to a discussion of how to write a Python script to test for like word endings on combinations of 888 pairs, etc. These songs have an almost mystical power to open minds. And observe there is this property to the universe known as "intelligence"
[+] [-] denkmoon|5 years ago|reply