I hope investors put more money in India in medtech, biotech, Pharma and Agritech instead of this current trend of investing in worthless consumer startups. India is much more stronger in biotech and Pharma than IT which is primarily a outsourcing work based on human labour cost arbitrage.
Indian eco-system is very complex and many of the figures are made up for investment by startups without any means of verification. Given cost of acquiring users in India is very very low, getting large users to show traction even for a mediocre or fake product is easy.
India leads the IT outsourcing industry which offer manpower as a product to support a legacy system or software on which most developers in developed nations don’t want to work as there isn’t a big future in it. Most famous Indian IT companies are mostly Human Resource Management company optimised for cost arbitrage between the salary in India vs US (and other developed places). Most IT firms processes are made around mandays (already a gender biased term), to make sure salary paid is 1/5th to 1/6th of the overall revenue this person generates from customer.
Except few, most startups are get rich quick schemes in India in which founder takes the money and there isn’t any recourse for investors given the rule of law takes ages to have results examples like Oyo and BYJU are everywhere.
> Most famous Indian IT companies are mostly Human Resource Management company optimised for cost arbitrage between the salary in India vs US (and other developed places).
I think you're ignoring the changing tech landscape in India - the same cost arbitrage that allowed IT outsourcing is now being used to build capital efficient tech startups who get much longer runway on the dollar compared to startups in the US or Europe. Of course, finding a Western market for most Indian startups is still very challenging, but I expect this model to become more successful over time.
Don't get fooled by India's startup hype. India has one of the world's "best" anti-business systems that will create hurdles all along the way to the top. If you do get to the top, the same systems will become your ally (as you would have learned to grease those).
Apart from the regular business troubles and risks, the unease of doing (not just starting) business in India is a huge growth barrier. And it is worsening. The bureaucracy is just horrible and spiced with corruption all over from taxation to approvals. The leaders have little control on that. And it may not visible for first 1-3 years of business growth time, it consistently hits and threatens you as you grow further.
Having said that - Any economy focused strong leader in India could flip that view in a matter of 6 months or a year. It might require reducing the bureaucracy resources by 70-75%. Otherwise the country might be selling the same hopes & dreams for next 50 years or more. India has talented resources and is potentially a talent goldmine, but they are mostly hidden, misused, abused, suppressed, unaware or just moved out.
Something interesting about the startup scene in India is how the center of gravity has shifted over the last 10 years from Bangalore / Hyderabad to New Delhi. Elad Gil's recent post mentions this: http://blog.eladgil.com/2020/10/unicorn-market-cap-industry-... with Bangalore having 8 unicorns vs Delhi's 11.
"While Bangalore continues to thrive, some point to bad governance locally (traffic, high rents, passive government) as one of the reasons it is not the only center. There are undoubtedly other reasons, but it is worth thinking about relative to San Francisco longer term."
I've been to both Delhi (more accurately, Gurgaon) and Bangalore on business assignments. I don't mean to sound unfairly harsh, but it's difficult for me to imagine a city that basically feels like it's constantly trying to kill you become a center of startup activity, for the simple reason that once one becomes wealthy enough to invest in startups one would want to leave the city for a better quality of life.
The air quality and pollution problems in Delhi are like nothing I have ever experienced. When I was there (granted, it was exceptionally poor air quality even for Delhi at that time) I could not see the sun at midday due to the smog - I couldn't see more than 100 feet due to the smog. I felt like Blade Runner could have been filmed in Gurgaon - a post apocalyptic world with giant buildings but a dire lack of accessible green space. Even if there were much green space, I couldn't spend much time outside because every breath tasted like acrid metal.
I'm not saying San Francisco and Silicon Valley are some utopias either - they obviously have a slew of social ills (often debated on HN). But I have never realized how much I have taken for granted being able to breath clean air, and I really hope Delhi is able to clean up its pollution problems, but until it does I can't see it becoming a truly globally competitive startup center.
8 vs 11 is too small a sample size to say either way. It may very well be that a couple of these startups succeeded due to their business model / luck / sector / whatever which wouldn't apply to the next startup.
If it were 0 vs 11, that would mean something, but 8 vs 11 is too close.
Instead of counting unicorns, we should count the number of successful exits, such as acquisitions. Or, second best, the number of companies that reached (say) series C funding.
As someone who's never been to India, when someone says "Bangalore" I think "tech hub" and when someone says "New Delhi" I think "Bollywood". Do people feel a pull toward New Delhi the way people feel a pull toward NYC here in the US?
The current cohort of 20 year olds are educated, smart and building companies or working in startups. If they manage to find good exits in a couple of years, they can become angel investors after that. Thus teenagers of today will be founders of Ant financial of the next decade of India. India today looks like China from 2000-2007.
From an EU perspective, it's mind numbing to see so much growth. If they only followed traffic/parking and had a slightly better electricity and water infrastructure, they would be as good as some countries in EU but with better companies and constantly producing new jobs.
Why wouldn't you just call your representatives and force them to enforce traffic laws in your neighborhoods? You are this close.
I don't know if I can agree. The early startup scene is far less energetic and exciting than it used to be 7-8 years ago. Most of the funding is cornered by mature startups that had their start a decade ago, and are still seeking their first exit.
The good part is that more and more startups are tackling tough industries like insurance. But it does feel like we're past the crest of the wave.
Yeah why the down vote? It is interesting to see US/West centric view on stuff like this on hacker news. Fact is other countries are doing stuff better and cheaper in high tech like space tech.
I believe it. There's some really slick Indian stuff in the Arduino/Scratch space, and it overcomes the usual English-to-English linguistic pitfalls that tend to make Indian less products unappealing to USA users.
The startup activity in India is the bright side of the story. We are still riding the boom that came due to Jio and mass adoption of "data" - but I worry that the overall slowdown in the economy will catch up with the startup ecosystem at some point.
I'd have to disagree. Only partly though. You mentioned a well established phenomenon, brain drain and it's true that the Indian talent gravitates towards the Silicon Valley or for the most part at least tries to but this is the point of the article as well, this phenomenon is slowing down a bit, not as much Indians gravitate with their startups to the US as they did say, a decade ago.
This shows progress and this is what the whole point is, progress.
With the extreme H1B conditions at the moment, it's unlikely people will take extra steps to just get to the US when they can try setting it up in India.
But the rate of that is slowing is what is likely happening. Compared with low cost of operating in the third world, more ideas are viable than would be viable in the US, because of grossly higher costs in the US.
There are signs that India's early consumer/b2b startup ecosystem is heating up like China's. I am not sure the YC playbook of Team, Idea, Product and Execution work too well at this stage - in fact it might put startups at a disadvantage if they're too focused on processes early on, it just slows you down.
If your idea gains traction, you can expect multiple competitors in your space in a matter of weeks, nearly identical perhaps. This has happened for video conferencing software, recruitment software, shopify-like website builders and more. In such situations, it might be worth learning how successful Chinese startups set themselves apart from the pack.
The submission is in fact a duplicate, check the source I added. You could just acknowledge it at the very least or ignore it but downvoting for no apparent reason isn't the best way.
[+] [-] dragonsh|5 years ago|reply
Indian eco-system is very complex and many of the figures are made up for investment by startups without any means of verification. Given cost of acquiring users in India is very very low, getting large users to show traction even for a mediocre or fake product is easy.
India leads the IT outsourcing industry which offer manpower as a product to support a legacy system or software on which most developers in developed nations don’t want to work as there isn’t a big future in it. Most famous Indian IT companies are mostly Human Resource Management company optimised for cost arbitrage between the salary in India vs US (and other developed places). Most IT firms processes are made around mandays (already a gender biased term), to make sure salary paid is 1/5th to 1/6th of the overall revenue this person generates from customer.
Except few, most startups are get rich quick schemes in India in which founder takes the money and there isn’t any recourse for investors given the rule of law takes ages to have results examples like Oyo and BYJU are everywhere.
[+] [-] blueblisters|5 years ago|reply
I think you're ignoring the changing tech landscape in India - the same cost arbitrage that allowed IT outsourcing is now being used to build capital efficient tech startups who get much longer runway on the dollar compared to startups in the US or Europe. Of course, finding a Western market for most Indian startups is still very challenging, but I expect this model to become more successful over time.
[+] [-] segfaultbuserr|5 years ago|reply
Interesting. I'd like to see a citation.
[+] [-] smdz|5 years ago|reply
Apart from the regular business troubles and risks, the unease of doing (not just starting) business in India is a huge growth barrier. And it is worsening. The bureaucracy is just horrible and spiced with corruption all over from taxation to approvals. The leaders have little control on that. And it may not visible for first 1-3 years of business growth time, it consistently hits and threatens you as you grow further.
Having said that - Any economy focused strong leader in India could flip that view in a matter of 6 months or a year. It might require reducing the bureaucracy resources by 70-75%. Otherwise the country might be selling the same hopes & dreams for next 50 years or more. India has talented resources and is potentially a talent goldmine, but they are mostly hidden, misused, abused, suppressed, unaware or just moved out.
I guess this will attract a lot of downvotes
[+] [-] umeshunni|5 years ago|reply
"While Bangalore continues to thrive, some point to bad governance locally (traffic, high rents, passive government) as one of the reasons it is not the only center. There are undoubtedly other reasons, but it is worth thinking about relative to San Francisco longer term."
[+] [-] hn_throwaway_99|5 years ago|reply
The air quality and pollution problems in Delhi are like nothing I have ever experienced. When I was there (granted, it was exceptionally poor air quality even for Delhi at that time) I could not see the sun at midday due to the smog - I couldn't see more than 100 feet due to the smog. I felt like Blade Runner could have been filmed in Gurgaon - a post apocalyptic world with giant buildings but a dire lack of accessible green space. Even if there were much green space, I couldn't spend much time outside because every breath tasted like acrid metal.
I'm not saying San Francisco and Silicon Valley are some utopias either - they obviously have a slew of social ills (often debated on HN). But I have never realized how much I have taken for granted being able to breath clean air, and I really hope Delhi is able to clean up its pollution problems, but until it does I can't see it becoming a truly globally competitive startup center.
[+] [-] kartickv|5 years ago|reply
If it were 0 vs 11, that would mean something, but 8 vs 11 is too close.
Instead of counting unicorns, we should count the number of successful exits, such as acquisitions. Or, second best, the number of companies that reached (say) series C funding.
[+] [-] Jedd|5 years ago|reply
How much of that is related to government influence (the effectiveness of pushing Bangalore & Hydrabad to be tech centers)?
I note that Bangalore's population is 8m, while Delhi is 21m. If it was 'unicorns per population' then you'd naively expect a ratio of 8:21, not 8:11.
[+] [-] phendrenad2|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nine_zeros|5 years ago|reply
From an EU perspective, it's mind numbing to see so much growth. If they only followed traffic/parking and had a slightly better electricity and water infrastructure, they would be as good as some countries in EU but with better companies and constantly producing new jobs.
Why wouldn't you just call your representatives and force them to enforce traffic laws in your neighborhoods? You are this close.
[+] [-] puranjay|5 years ago|reply
The good part is that more and more startups are tackling tough industries like insurance. But it does feel like we're past the crest of the wave.
[+] [-] 0df8dkdf|5 years ago|reply
NASA and Elan you can learn some from the Indians!
[+] [-] HJain13|5 years ago|reply
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/science/isro-sends...
[+] [-] 0df8dkdf|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 0df8dkdf|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] srtjstjsj|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] patja|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thrwoe234343|5 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] kpowerinfinity|5 years ago|reply
The startup activity in India is the bright side of the story. We are still riding the boom that came due to Jio and mass adoption of "data" - but I worry that the overall slowdown in the economy will catch up with the startup ecosystem at some point.
[+] [-] choonway|5 years ago|reply
Talent is gravitating towards US - that's an undeniable fact.
[+] [-] arthtyagi|5 years ago|reply
This shows progress and this is what the whole point is, progress.
With the extreme H1B conditions at the moment, it's unlikely people will take extra steps to just get to the US when they can try setting it up in India.
[+] [-] GlennS|5 years ago|reply
The number of talented Indians who don't leave their country must be many times higher.
[+] [-] billfruit|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xwdv|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kaushikt|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] blueblisters|5 years ago|reply
If your idea gains traction, you can expect multiple competitors in your space in a matter of weeks, nearly identical perhaps. This has happened for video conferencing software, recruitment software, shopify-like website builders and more. In such situations, it might be worth learning how successful Chinese startups set themselves apart from the pack.
[+] [-] rehman|5 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] 0x6A75616E|5 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] dang|5 years ago|reply
"Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something."
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
[+] [-] ackbar03|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] known|5 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] oyebenny|5 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] sg47|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] known|5 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] arthtyagi|5 years ago|reply
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24884059
[+] [-] arthtyagi|5 years ago|reply