It's a couple of years old, but this post on "Why I'm not going to switch to Wayland yet."[1] summarizes some of the concerns I have about switching to Wayland:
"at the moment there are several types of applications that not only don't
work in wayland, but would be very difficult, or impossible to work natively in all major wayland compositors.
Case in point: Gnome + Wayland + guake. If you configure guake to use anything less than 100% of the width of the screen, then it suddenly appears in the wrong position.
But wait, maybe that's a guake bug, right?
Wrong. I tried a couple of other options for similar functionality and they demonstrated the same issue. So odds are it's actually a bug in the compositor.
And that's ignoring that basic things like global keybinding don't work (edit: ya ya, the Wayland proponents will tell you that's by design, but it's a) user hateful b) totally different than literally any other desktop OS out there today, and c) breaks apps, right now, in ways that will require major code changes to fix) so I have to put a hack in place to allow F12 to open guake up in the first place.
Meanwhile, we only just got the "official" solution for screensharing (what Zoom does is an incredible hack: they just take lots of screenshots! No, I'm not kidding, that's actually how it works, which is why the framerate is so bad) and it involves yet more new stuff (pipewire, et al) that I'm sure will be a source of its own raft of bugs.
I'd say "maybe in a year or two", but we've been saying that for a long time, now...
The problem with Wayland is really that people understand it to be a drop-in replacement of X11, or something close to it. But it's not a replacement of X11. You don't "switch to Wayland", despite what that GDM button seems to indicate. Wayland is just a protocol, whereas X11 is a protocol and entire system around it.
So Wayland is not a replacement of X11. Gnome on Wayland should be a replacement for Gnome on X11. KDE on Wayland should be replacement for KDE on X11. Sway on Wayland should be a replacement for i3 and X11. But as you can imagine in this equation, KDE, Gnome and Sway are permitted and required to take on more responsibilities.
You might take issue with the fact that a lot more of the display stack gets tied up in specific desktop environments. It's KDE and Gnome and Sway that are not providing you these command line tools/screen recording/clipboard access. I don't mean to say this as nitpicking or that """Wayland""" (whatever that means) is dropping the ball, but this is really the responsibility of the desktop environment (or WM) in Wayland's design. Wayland is just a protocol.
What you're observing as shortcomings in Wayland is really a lock of pace and direction of development for (e.g. Freedesktop) standards that standardize clipboard access/screen recording use cases, and the adoption of those standards. The Linux community seems to have been hit by 1) not realizing Wayland does not replace X11 and 2) realizing that, not being to coordinate standardization well of the pieces of the X11 stack that should be replaced as well. If you need to replace X11, you need a lot more than just Wayland. But that seems to keep on catching people by surprise.
I think it'd be helpful for the future of the Linux desktop if more people recognized that.
You kinda just need to use new stuff when it's all so heavily dependent on an X server.
* swaymsg (no idea what Gnome or KDE do here)
* wl-clipboad
* wofi, or a Wayland fork of rofi (https://github.com/lbonn/rofi)
* I don't use a clipboard manager, so I'm gonna skip this one. :D
* slurp, grim, wf-recorder, mpv (OBS and ffmpeg work fine, not sure about the others)
I think I was lucky to get back into Linux this year because I didn't have to unlearn anything to use Wayland. You mention a dozen tools I've never heard of! If I had some X flow I'd been using for years with 10s of tools that no longer work on the other side, that would be overwhelming.
For me the only reason is that my window manager would need to change (bspwm) and I have no compelling reason to switch unless it's 100% painless.
This is the biggest problem. I accept Wayland brings benefits for some people, but I couldn't care less. Since I don't care about the benefits it brings, it needs to be entirely painless.
Until the switch is more painless than holding on to Xorg, there will be a good chunk of users with no incentive to make the move.
EDIT: I'd also say that the fact that so many of the tools need to change, rather than e.g. get support added to them to support Wayland compositors is a huge indictment of the whole thing. It seems like no thought was put into planning for transition.
> Until Wayland has all these (and more) and they are as stable and feature-rich as the existing apps on X, I will not willingly switch to Wayland.
For me it’s some of those, dwm, sxhkd, keynav, xcape, the Compose key, and simple highlight + middle click/Shift+Insert copypasta. I’m a bit confused about the extent to which the Wayland devs have changed their minds about the last one.
>> Until Wayland has all these (and more) and they are as stable and feature-rich as the existing apps on X, I will not willingly switch to Wayland.
Every time this topic comes up, a bunch of people bring up the things X has that Wayland doesnt yet have, or have in the form they think it should.
I'm not sure if it's just me but these comments come across as some combination of defiant, demanding, or I dont know what. It's like they don't understand that the world is moving on and doesnt really give a $h!t about them and their love of X. I mean here is a post from "the guy" whose been keeping X going for a long time saying "this shit is done" and people keep complaining about that as if they have some say in it without actually contributing to the code. It reads like entitlement - some kind of expectation that other people exist just to make things the way they want them to be.
* Image editor, with own modern looking GUI-toolkit built on top of X11 (AzPainter)[0]
> Until Wayland has all these (and more) and they are as stable and feature-rich as the existing apps on X, I will not willingly switch to Wayland.
Same thing actually decided by AzPainter developer: they already tried to add Wayland support to its GUI-toolkit (additionally to already supported X11), but postponed it due to Wayland still is not fully usable.[1,2]
I always get downvoted for saying this but anyway. Wayland needs the Nvidia problem to be solved. I don't see how it's sustainable to have to build everything for GBM and EGLStreams.
I was suprised to read that OBS doesn't work with Wayland. I found some articles [0] on how it runs well using XWayland [1] - which I guess let's you run X-Clients under Wayland - but it seems that the amount of work to get this to work is not trivial, considering the official PR for the work, is on part 3 and that has been open since March![2]. Oh, how did it get so bad?
I recently switched to Sway on Wayland. Sway has good dynamic output configuration. `wl-clipboard` and `wl-paste` are there for CLI clipboard access. There's a rofi fork that works on Wayland, and can also emulate `dmenu`. `clipman` is Wayland compatible. I use `grimshot` with `rofi` integration for screenshots. I have a HTML Color Picker script for sway that's launched from `rofi` that I should share. `ydotool` and `wtype` emulate the parts of `xdotool` that I care about.
Also, there's no longer tearing when I resize windows!
I would not consider this examples "Applications", but more configuration tools. I would also not expect to be able to port the OSX Clipboard manager to Windows or the "Displays" utility. From a new window server I would expect to have some ways to configure output, switch applications, manage clip-board but I would not expect to have my existing tools continuing to work.
If you are re-architecting a system from the ground-up there is always some fallout expected.
I agree those features are essential for an Xorg replacement, but you're missing the fact that the Wayland designers excluded them intentionally, so Wayland is intrinsically hostile to the features and the power-users that use them. See my comment at the top level of this thread.
When the last discussion of X being abandon-ware came up one of the things I wanted to say, being the creator of a highly used open source project myself, is that people are ultimately responsible for software. I was going to speculate that the maintainer of X might be burnt out and that none of us have any right to his free labour, and that the people whining should probably step up or shut up.
Open source software is also free (as in beer) software.
There's a word for people who complain about free things.
The problem is not wayland. I root for wayland and I hope it'll progress steadily to maturity.
The problem is getting pushed to drop my well-working Xorg-based setup for some wayland-based setup that can't run the application I use daily and that I've been running for years.
I'm okay with wayland, but I have a problem with people telling me "oh just drop that".
I don't see anyone complaining that X isn't being maintained.
Only that they'd rather use (unmaintained) X over Wayland due to numerous shortcomings in wayland that are practically unfixable (because they're intentional design choices, or because they're a result of the fragmentation resulting from wayland's design choices).
As a part outsider/part insider (long time Linux user, not much of a programmer) let me see if I can try to summarize my frustration with this transition process -- it simply seems to be a much different methodology than the one that got Linux to where it is.
As I understand it, Linus' number one deal is "don't break backward compatibility." The Unix Way is "Write programs that talk to one another..." etc. This is the foundation that I believe put Linux where it is today, this is why I love it and use it so much.
Which is why I'm dismayed to see so much comfort with what feels in line with a proprietary top-down control attitude, the thing that Microsoft and Apple et al do, i.e. "This thing is going to change, so get over it."
I appreciate that there is work being done. I'm willing to trust that there is a point to Wayland (I literally don't get it at this stage; trying to use it presently creates FAR more problems than it solves) -- but it seems like it should be axiomatic that the project works harder to preserve the space than it appears to now.
On the contrary, Wayland is very much in the spirit of Unix & Linux philosophy, while X11 isn't. Wayland is an attempt to do one thing and do it well, hence why it doesn't have solutions for things like clipboard management. Because that's not part of display management & composition. Wayland only does that one thing.
By contrast the common complaint about Wayland is that it doesn't have the vast variety of unrelated features rammed into it like X does.
Part of the problem here then is that there's A) no big pushes for 'does one thing & does it well' for all the other X features (like clipboard or global keyboard shortcuts), and B) fragmented implementations of the wayland protocol. There really should have been a much better, and more singular, reference implementation that Gnome, KDE, etc... all just embedded instead. Which means the "does it well" part is taking a really long time, as developer communities are split up.
For whatever reason, people who follow the classic Unix/Linux philosophy no longer write much code. The people who are coding the desktop are all using a more Mac-like philosophy.
You see, we have a lot of interchangeable parts. We have bash/zsh/sh, glibc/musl, apt/pacman/yum, systemd/runit/OpenRC, GNOME/KDE/XFCE, i3/wmii/xmonad, chromium/firefox etc etc. Even kernel is interchangeable - HURD [1], kFreeBSD [2].
Distribution is a collection of such parts, you may think of it as "proprietary top-down control attitude" but it is just a collection that suits someone needs. It may not suit you, you may replace parts, you may create another distribution. For example as Arch Linux user my install does not include graphical system, no one forces me.
The point I see is that Wayland got something useful. So useful that distributions started to switch their default. If anything it conforms that X11 has some problems, that it was harder to achieve same result there. Maybe it does not cover your needs but it covers someone needs better.
Funny how Wayland is trying to replace one of the few crucial parts of the *nix ecosystem that _isn't_ fragmented. Everyone's got their own take on everything from basic stuff like kernels, shells, userland, and directory structures to bigger stuff like desktop environments.
Except X. X is X and everybody agrees that X is X. It's not perfect, but it's there, and it mostly just works, and all the programs are written for it. Instead of trying to fix the one thing we've all managed to agree upon, we're going to replace it with something completely different.
The X Window System (X11 for short) looks and feels the same on my Intel Ubuntu Linux laptop and on my HP 9000 UNIX workstation running HP-UX 11 on PA-RISC.
X11 is ancient (1987), but it's brilliant. Its designers even anticipated having 16 mouse buttons, and (more importantly) opening a window on a remote system.
The system is flexible, programmable, customizable; I've got all development manual volumes here on my shelf.
While I'm open and sympathetic to any new ideas and improved software systems, including novel windowing concepts, personally, I don't have any unmet window manager needs at present. Any new system shouldn't just replicate a subset of X11, they should go beyond the state of the art to justify the time investment.
So, I need nvidia proprietary drivers, use a window manager that doesn't support wayland (cwm), do I have any options besides using Xorg? I think the answer is no, but I'm not super well versed in these things. Xorg seems to work just great for me, not sure what all the fuss is about. But then again, I'm not an expert, so I'm happy to adopt any other solution, assuming I can get fast graphics/cuda at 144hz and use my favorite window manager, cwm.
My problem with switching from X to Wayland is not that Wayland doesn't do enough of the things that X does. It's that at it's not different enough. I've been waiting for a really good Linux desktop experience and windowing system since I first started using Linux in 1991. I've always found X hacky and awkward in the entire almost-30 years I've been using it -- it's definitely improved from the era of manual modeline and input device configuration, but it's still ... yuck. Especially things like clipboard. But I don't feel like Wayland is the thing that's going to move us towards any world of consistency and usability. It's just another way for very heterogeneous and mismatched applications to draw arbitrary stuff on the screen.
I like the X11 clipboard behaviour a lot better than windows/mac. Having the additional clipboard is well worth the occasional weirdness where a non-natively-x11-thing uses the wrong one.
I wonder what this “only what is current may exist” culture is, whether it’s manifestation of survival of the fittest, a baby step towards the machine uprising of 2037; whether it acknowledges a notion, that an environment, where what without a change may sustain, cannot host a life.
> I don't have any real desire to get there while still pretending that the xfree86 hardware-backed server code is a real thing
What does he mean by that? That there isn't really a hardware-accelerated Xorg server?
If that's true, is the post indicating that Adam sees the Xorg code as an interface layer to some other rendering system that had hardware acceleration?
As a user of desktop linux (PopOS), I wonder what is going on here and how this effects me.
I know enough about X, but. What the heck is wayland?
wikipedia says (display server using the Wayland protocol is called a Wayland compositor, because it additionally performs the task of a compositing window manager.) Whats the compositor doing? Does this effect local linux or only trying to run windows remotely? Xwayland?
I've used X (Xwindows) to run windowing apps remotely (ssh -X) occasionally. It works, excepting that now that I WFH it doesn't.
Linux moves very slowly, but shouldn't replacing X be a great thing?
The whole window system situation on Unix is and has always been like a Rubik's Cube that somebody switched the stickers on so it's impossible to solve.
I've never used Wayland. Are there inherent advantages that make it preferable, even if the community could successfully revive X? (And assuming Wayland's deficiencies were addressed-- speed as an example, from other comments I've seen)
Where can I find a list of protocols and standards, and what compositors have implemented them? I don't want to dig between issues and thousands of repos or docs. I imagine commercial software have even less patience, maybe that's why Zoom used the proprietary GNOME thing instead of the open standard.
Wayland works really well, I think people who can't use it yet because of features they miss should just use x.org and stop complaining and harassing open source developers. I'm using sway and wayfire but I have no clue how they work behind the scenes or wayland itself.
Reading this post, it strikes me that there could have been standalone monitors with an Ethernet port that had just enough compute power to run an X server.
[+] [-] pmoriarty|5 years ago|reply
"at the moment there are several types of applications that not only don't work in wayland, but would be very difficult, or impossible to work natively in all major wayland compositors.
Examples (in order of importance to me):
Until Wayland has all these (and more) and they are as stable and feature-rich as the existing apps on X, I will not willingly switch to Wayland.[1] - https://old.reddit.com/r/wayland/comments/85q78y/why_im_not_...
[+] [-] CarelessExpert|5 years ago|reply
Case in point: Gnome + Wayland + guake. If you configure guake to use anything less than 100% of the width of the screen, then it suddenly appears in the wrong position.
But wait, maybe that's a guake bug, right?
Wrong. I tried a couple of other options for similar functionality and they demonstrated the same issue. So odds are it's actually a bug in the compositor.
And that's ignoring that basic things like global keybinding don't work (edit: ya ya, the Wayland proponents will tell you that's by design, but it's a) user hateful b) totally different than literally any other desktop OS out there today, and c) breaks apps, right now, in ways that will require major code changes to fix) so I have to put a hack in place to allow F12 to open guake up in the first place.
Meanwhile, we only just got the "official" solution for screensharing (what Zoom does is an incredible hack: they just take lots of screenshots! No, I'm not kidding, that's actually how it works, which is why the framerate is so bad) and it involves yet more new stuff (pipewire, et al) that I'm sure will be a source of its own raft of bugs.
I'd say "maybe in a year or two", but we've been saying that for a long time, now...
[+] [-] DCKing|5 years ago|reply
So Wayland is not a replacement of X11. Gnome on Wayland should be a replacement for Gnome on X11. KDE on Wayland should be replacement for KDE on X11. Sway on Wayland should be a replacement for i3 and X11. But as you can imagine in this equation, KDE, Gnome and Sway are permitted and required to take on more responsibilities.
You might take issue with the fact that a lot more of the display stack gets tied up in specific desktop environments. It's KDE and Gnome and Sway that are not providing you these command line tools/screen recording/clipboard access. I don't mean to say this as nitpicking or that """Wayland""" (whatever that means) is dropping the ball, but this is really the responsibility of the desktop environment (or WM) in Wayland's design. Wayland is just a protocol.
What you're observing as shortcomings in Wayland is really a lock of pace and direction of development for (e.g. Freedesktop) standards that standardize clipboard access/screen recording use cases, and the adoption of those standards. The Linux community seems to have been hit by 1) not realizing Wayland does not replace X11 and 2) realizing that, not being to coordinate standardization well of the pieces of the X11 stack that should be replaced as well. If you need to replace X11, you need a lot more than just Wayland. But that seems to keep on catching people by surprise.
I think it'd be helpful for the future of the Linux desktop if more people recognized that.
[+] [-] pkulak|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vidarh|5 years ago|reply
This is the biggest problem. I accept Wayland brings benefits for some people, but I couldn't care less. Since I don't care about the benefits it brings, it needs to be entirely painless.
Until the switch is more painless than holding on to Xorg, there will be a good chunk of users with no incentive to make the move.
EDIT: I'd also say that the fact that so many of the tools need to change, rather than e.g. get support added to them to support Wayland compositors is a huge indictment of the whole thing. It seems like no thought was put into planning for transition.
[+] [-] creese|5 years ago|reply
Some of your issues are solved:
CLI clipboard access: wl-clipboard: https://github.com/bugaevc/wl-clipboard
App launcher: bemenu: https://github.com/Cloudef/bemenu
[+] [-] emersion|5 years ago|reply
https://github.com/swaywm/sway/wiki/i3-Migration-Guide#commo...
[+] [-] boogies|5 years ago|reply
For me it’s some of those, dwm, sxhkd, keynav, xcape, the Compose key, and simple highlight + middle click/Shift+Insert copypasta. I’m a bit confused about the extent to which the Wayland devs have changed their minds about the last one.
[+] [-] phkahler|5 years ago|reply
Every time this topic comes up, a bunch of people bring up the things X has that Wayland doesnt yet have, or have in the form they think it should.
I'm not sure if it's just me but these comments come across as some combination of defiant, demanding, or I dont know what. It's like they don't understand that the world is moving on and doesnt really give a $h!t about them and their love of X. I mean here is a post from "the guy" whose been keeping X going for a long time saying "this shit is done" and people keep complaining about that as if they have some say in it without actually contributing to the code. It reads like entitlement - some kind of expectation that other people exist just to make things the way they want them to be.
[+] [-] app4soft|5 years ago|reply
Same thing actually decided by AzPainter developer: they already tried to add Wayland support to its GUI-toolkit (additionally to already supported X11), but postponed it due to Wayland still is not fully usable.[1,2]
[0] https://github.com/Symbian9/azpainter
[1] https://aznote.jakou.com/prog/wayland/index.html
[2] http://azsky2.html.xdomain.jp/memo/index.html
[+] [-] xvilka|5 years ago|reply
[1] https://github.com/waymonad/waymonad
[2] https://github.com/xmonad/xmonad/issues/193
[+] [-] mnd999|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mkhalil|5 years ago|reply
I was suprised to read that OBS doesn't work with Wayland. I found some articles [0] on how it runs well using XWayland [1] - which I guess let's you run X-Clients under Wayland - but it seems that the amount of work to get this to work is not trivial, considering the official PR for the work, is on part 3 and that has been open since March![2]. Oh, how did it get so bad?
---------------
[0]:https://feaneron.com/2019/11/21/screencasting-with-obs-studi... [1]:https://wayland.freedesktop.org/xserver.html#heading_toc_j_3 [2]:https://github.com/obsproject/obs-studio/pull/2484#issuecomm...
[+] [-] shmerl|5 years ago|reply
* https://github.com/bugaevc/wl-clipboard
* https://github.com/ReimuNotMoe/ydotool
OBS / ffmpeg and etc. should get integrated with Pipewire I think for screen capture and the like? But I'm not sure how far that progressed.
[+] [-] markstos|5 years ago|reply
Also, there's no longer tearing when I resize windows!
[+] [-] heinrichhartman|5 years ago|reply
If you are re-architecting a system from the ground-up there is always some fallout expected.
[+] [-] unknown|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] mFixman|5 years ago|reply
Wouldn't it be easier to make it a separate service instead of having X or Wayland deal with it?
[+] [-] unknown|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] nsajko|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hapless|5 years ago|reply
It's not even the second time.
This is the third time X development has been abandoned. And yet, millions of us use X11 every day.
Don't hold your breath for Wayland to replace X11.
[+] [-] hacknat|5 years ago|reply
Open source software is also free (as in beer) software.
There's a word for people who complain about free things.
[+] [-] znpy|5 years ago|reply
The problem is not wayland. I root for wayland and I hope it'll progress steadily to maturity.
The problem is getting pushed to drop my well-working Xorg-based setup for some wayland-based setup that can't run the application I use daily and that I've been running for years.
I'm okay with wayland, but I have a problem with people telling me "oh just drop that".
[+] [-] nullc|5 years ago|reply
Only that they'd rather use (unmaintained) X over Wayland due to numerous shortcomings in wayland that are practically unfixable (because they're intentional design choices, or because they're a result of the fragmentation resulting from wayland's design choices).
[+] [-] bigbubba|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yjftsjthsd-h|5 years ago|reply
The post and comments are free, yet here you are complaining. Consider why you think that's okay, and you'll understand.
[+] [-] romanoderoma|5 years ago|reply
You don't complain about the weather?
[+] [-] stonogo|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jrm4|5 years ago|reply
As I understand it, Linus' number one deal is "don't break backward compatibility." The Unix Way is "Write programs that talk to one another..." etc. This is the foundation that I believe put Linux where it is today, this is why I love it and use it so much.
Which is why I'm dismayed to see so much comfort with what feels in line with a proprietary top-down control attitude, the thing that Microsoft and Apple et al do, i.e. "This thing is going to change, so get over it."
I appreciate that there is work being done. I'm willing to trust that there is a point to Wayland (I literally don't get it at this stage; trying to use it presently creates FAR more problems than it solves) -- but it seems like it should be axiomatic that the project works harder to preserve the space than it appears to now.
[+] [-] kllrnohj|5 years ago|reply
By contrast the common complaint about Wayland is that it doesn't have the vast variety of unrelated features rammed into it like X does.
Part of the problem here then is that there's A) no big pushes for 'does one thing & does it well' for all the other X features (like clipboard or global keyboard shortcuts), and B) fragmented implementations of the wayland protocol. There really should have been a much better, and more singular, reference implementation that Gnome, KDE, etc... all just embedded instead. Which means the "does it well" part is taking a really long time, as developer communities are split up.
[+] [-] wmf|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sergeykish|5 years ago|reply
Distribution is a collection of such parts, you may think of it as "proprietary top-down control attitude" but it is just a collection that suits someone needs. It may not suit you, you may replace parts, you may create another distribution. For example as Arch Linux user my install does not include graphical system, no one forces me.
The point I see is that Wayland got something useful. So useful that distributions started to switch their default. If anything it conforms that X11 has some problems, that it was harder to achieve same result there. Maybe it does not cover your needs but it covers someone needs better.
[1] https://www.debian.org/ports/hurd/
[1] https://www.debian.org/ports/kfreebsd-gnu/
[+] [-] arexxbifs|5 years ago|reply
Except X. X is X and everybody agrees that X is X. It's not perfect, but it's there, and it mostly just works, and all the programs are written for it. Instead of trying to fix the one thing we've all managed to agree upon, we're going to replace it with something completely different.
I'm not sure this is a good idea.
[+] [-] jll29|5 years ago|reply
X11 is ancient (1987), but it's brilliant. Its designers even anticipated having 16 mouse buttons, and (more importantly) opening a window on a remote system.
The system is flexible, programmable, customizable; I've got all development manual volumes here on my shelf.
While I'm open and sympathetic to any new ideas and improved software systems, including novel windowing concepts, personally, I don't have any unmet window manager needs at present. Any new system shouldn't just replicate a subset of X11, they should go beyond the state of the art to justify the time investment.
[+] [-] smabie|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cmrdporcupine|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nullc|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pmoriarty|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] numpad0|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lallysingh|5 years ago|reply
What does he mean by that? That there isn't really a hardware-accelerated Xorg server?
If that's true, is the post indicating that Adam sees the Xorg code as an interface layer to some other rendering system that had hardware acceleration?
Is that XWayland? I'm guessing at all this.
[+] [-] acomjean|5 years ago|reply
I know enough about X, but. What the heck is wayland?
wikipedia says (display server using the Wayland protocol is called a Wayland compositor, because it additionally performs the task of a compositing window manager.) Whats the compositor doing? Does this effect local linux or only trying to run windows remotely? Xwayland?
I've used X (Xwindows) to run windowing apps remotely (ssh -X) occasionally. It works, excepting that now that I WFH it doesn't.
Linux moves very slowly, but shouldn't replacing X be a great thing?
[+] [-] https443|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] DonHopkins|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] busterarm|5 years ago|reply
Who is using Wayland without X in Asia right now and isn't using English?
[+] [-] rhabarba|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] anticristi|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ineedasername|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] entropy1111|5 years ago|reply
Wayland works really well, I think people who can't use it yet because of features they miss should just use x.org and stop complaining and harassing open source developers. I'm using sway and wayfire but I have no clue how they work behind the scenes or wayland itself.
[+] [-] jandrese|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]