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smhmd | 5 years ago

> In many cases, stacking encryption algorithms actually weakens the resulting security.

Could you, please, explain how?

discuss

order

n3k5|5 years ago

Imagine you have a couple of algorithms that scramble a solved Rubik's cube into a configuration that takes at least 20 twists to unscramble [0]. From there, any attempt to make it ‘even more scrambled’ would be pointless — and actually likely make solving the resulting puzzle easier.

Now imagine there's a programmer who wants to make the ultimate cube scrambler despite not knowing any of the above. Their brilliant idea is to take the aforementioned algorithms and chain them together. (Result: snafu.)

In essence, the moral of the story is that one shouldn't try stacking encryption algorithms without first acquiring a pretty good understanding of how they all work.

[0] https://www.popsci.com/science/article/2010-08/gods-number-r...

sterlind|5 years ago

I think it depends. Imagine a future where quantum computers may be in reach by intelligence agencies, but a quantum-resistant public key encryption algorithm has been proposed but not rigorously defended. You wouldn't want to trust either algorithm alone, so you can use both: encrypt the data with the quantum algorithm first, then by the classical one. Decrypting would require breaking both, there's no shortcuts.

kortilla|5 years ago

That’s not how it works unless you’re sharing a key between them somehow and one of them reveals the key. Otherwise an attacker could take something encrypted with a good algorithm and encrypt the cipher text with a bad algorithm to make it easier to crack themselves.

soared|5 years ago

If I’m following this logic correctly - running a few more algorithms on something before trying to decrypt will make it easier rather than harder to decrypt?

Is the ceiling for “max encryption” that low, or is just that one algorithm combined with another has a local maximum?

MauranKilom|5 years ago

Very basic example: ROT13 is a form of encryption. Applying ROT13 twice gives you plaintext.

It's of course not that trivial with better encryption algorithms. But before stacking encryption algorithms, try to first answer what you are trying to achieve (that application of a single algorithm does not).

Moru|5 years ago

It's more like doing ROT13 and ROT12 to strengthen the encryption. To decrypt you just need to do ROT1, not ROT-12 followed by ROT-13.

3pt14159|5 years ago

There are ways where it can, but it is usually more secure to stack encryption despite what people on HN tell you. The NSA does stacks double for the secure version of the mobile phone that they give to high level diplomats and POTUS and there are cases like during Cloud Bleed where the only sites that were fully secure turned out to be the ones that used client side encryption in addition to HTTPS. I'm not saying that this would necessarily be more secure, just that is tends to be more secure based on all of the research I've done and personal experience on projects as well as conversations with people that actually break encryption for a living. The devil is in the details, though, and it also depends on the nature of your adversary.