Osama bin Laden's legacy lives on with every traveler being herded through body scanners, with every illegal search in our 120-mile-radius Constitution-free zones, and with every warrantless wiretap.
Until his legacy dies, he lives on, as strong as ever.
...
Can I at least bring a tube of toothpaste with me when I travel now?
Sadly, his real achievement was simply the idea that a small aggrieved group of people are capable of achieving something with the terror impact of 9/11. Before, it was always only in the realm of distant possibility, a far-fetched story told in books or movies. That can never be erased.
Hopefully the emphasis on terror will be reduced, though. Bad driving, bad diet and many other causes have definitely killed more people each than 9/11 since it happened, but it's a lot easier to focus on an external enemy you can see, especially when it has a shark-attack-like amplification on our perception of danger.
Yes that is all too true. When I can get on a commercial flight without having to take off my shoes, have my toiletries inspected and having an intrusive full body xray taken, then I'll know we have finally defeated Osama bin Laden and his compatriots.
Yes, can this "War on Terror" now please end? The great boogieman is dead. Time to dismantle the security theatre and give our freedom and privacy back...
Restrictions on liquids on international flights have been eased a bit, at least on Australian airlines.
You can have a few small containers - up to 100mL in each. I was able to fly with toothpaste, deodorant, insect repellent and sunscreen in my carry-on luggage on a recent trip. Nail clippers are allowed too.
Funnily enough, there are no such restrictions on domestic flights.
Sad thing is his death will probably add fuel to Al-Qaeda's fire. Although we may not be able to kill his legacy, we can still try to extinguish the fear he lived to ignite.
Not even a whimper of cheer for Osama's death from me, given the abysmal foreign policy and national security state failure of the last decade. As another commenter said, "Osama bin Laden's legacy lives on with every traveler being herded through body scanners, with every illegal search in our 120-mile-radius Constitution-free zones, and with every warrantless wiretap."
Besides that, it's simply not like me to cheer for anyone's death, in principle, especially a figure the TV adamantly asserts we're supposed to hate. It's not that I doubt the veracity of the reasons given so much as I loathe demagoguery and spectacle.
This is a much more complex piece of news than most Americans think. I just hope they don't show his body on TV. That's going to just incite and inflame jihad-minded fighters.
And I sure hope this doesn't make the U.S. pull out of Afghanistan in the next 90 days like NBC just implied, because that would be bad for everyone in that country.
EDIT if OBL really was killed in a mansion in Islamabad, that changes a lot in relations between the US and Pakistan. If he was killed in the FATA, then it's pretty meaningless operationally, it's just a news deal that will inflame the jihadi world for a while.
Edit2 Abbottabad is in NWFP, so not exactly Islamabad and a different interesting. If Obama didn't get Pakistan's permission before going, that is interesting. Not going to change wars on the ground except for a inflammation in jihadi tensions.
I'm going to offer a healthy bit of skepticism here but it frightens me the way this is being reported.
Specifically:
"...justice has been done". American military and C.I.A. operatives had ...shot him to death.
Obama:
"I authorized an operation to get Osama bin Laden and bring him to justice."
Obama:
"His demise should be welcome by all who believe in peace and human dignity."
Is that how we conduct justice now? I am not satisfied by this outcome. I would rather have had him in custody showing we hold the higher ground when it pertains to morality and justice. Its no surprise to me now that our morality and judgment is an illusion which I thought, ever since I was a kid, was what made America great. The fact that Obama plays off people's emotions in his speech to gain support for this outcome is purely disgusting.
And lastly, you believe this because the media and Obama says its so?
> Is that how we conduct justice now? I am not satisfied by this outcome. I would rather have had him in custody showing we hold the higher ground when it pertains to morality and justice.
I'm confused as to what you're unhappy about and who you're blaming for this outcome. Some courageous soldiers attempted to get an elusive mass murderer and bring him to justice. During the attempt there was a firefight and he was killed in the exchange.
It is obvious that this outcome is upsetting for a lot of people, but not for the same reasons than yours. This man caused a lot of griefs to many families, not only in the U.S., but also throughout places in the world where Al Qaeda has stricken, (including Afghanistan). Some scars are still not completely healed.
Those words, "His demise should be welcome by all who believe in peace and human dignity", simply serve as solace for the fact that they were unable to take him alive.
Now, turning this into an Obama thing is your own prerogative. Was he taking credit/responsibility in the video? To some extent certainly, but I didn't perceived him trying to play with people's emotions.
Think what the sympathizers to OBL would do if they knew that he was in custody and still alive? Nothing breaks their will better than to kill him swiftly.
I share your feeling in terms of being circumspect about the claims of "justice" and cynical about our leaders' motives. But I have to think it's better that he wasn't taken alive. Can you imagine the media & political circus that would have resulted? And the mock trial we would have had for him? The last thing we need to do is parade him on TV for 3 months and give him worldwide martyrdom. American reactions are bad enough as it is.
Given knowledge of his whereabouts, the prosecution of a terrorist mastermind and financier was the only option, though I suppose whether it would be better to try and execute him or kill him in combat is debatable.
Does Al Jazeera English broadcast 24/7? I dont have cable but have wished/hoped for a CNN that streams 24/7 on the net. Maybe Al Jazeera is this Internet news channel I've hoped for?
finally. Can we stop the stupid patdowns of innocent travelers and disconnect the porno scanners at the airports now? I have to travel tomorrow and I'd rather not go through that crap again.
No, because terrorism is decentralized and the millions of people who (rightfully) hate us now will be even angrier. Which will justify further control of the populace for safety.
1) Quickly find (or make up) another evil empire or shadow enemy to be afraid of. Suggestions: Wikileaks, music pirates, subversive citizens, militias, Arab dictators, nullification by jury educators ...
That was one of my first thoughts upon hearing the news! "Can we go back to walking people to their gates?" Part of me is afraid of retaliation, however,...
You know, as someone who lives in the most terror stricken country in the world (well, probably): Israel, I never had to take my shoes off, have a full body scan taken, no pat downs either.
I'm gonna go on a wild guess and say that Ben Gurion airport is one of the most secure airports on Earth. I don't see any justification for all the above stuff.
It is very likely that there will be retaliation (or at least some forms of trying to retaliate) in the immediate aftermath. So increased alert levels are more likely.
I am pretty impressed that Twitter is still up right now. As far as I can tell there was no fail whale during this whole news break. Big moment for the site I think.
This is just fantastic news! I stare at the rising Freedom Tower out my window as I write this, and there's a sense of closure to what was a rude awakening to a new century.
From Andrew Sullivan on Daily Beast:
"12.08 pm Can I say how deeply moving it is that a man named Barack Hussein Obama gave the order for the operation that killed Osama bin Laden?
The pre-eminent symbol of our the multicultural, multiracial society of the future defeated the pre-eminent symbol of the darkest, bleakest throwback to medieval religious fanaticism. Im not ashamed to use the following language: Good defeated evil. And hope rekindles again."
"The worst thing to post or upvote is something that's intensely but shallowly interesting. Gossip about famous people, funny or cute pictures or videos, partisan political articles, etc. If you let that sort of thing onto a news site, it will push aside the deeply interesting stuff, which tends to be quieter."
This is huge news for the U.S. We can argue whether this is the sort of news which should be posted here, but it will likely have a huge emotional impact for the U.S. Our nation came to a standstill on 9/11 and this story will likely have some impact on productivity. ;)
It's a shame they couldn't capture him. "Shot in the head while resisting" is very inconvenient for those of us who wanted to be sure he faced justice.
Personally, I think it probably went down more or less as reported. Namely that he was killed in the firefight. Probably not on purpose.
I know a little bit about close-in operations like this one must have been and, well, it's hard to keep a guy alive who is (1) shooting at you and (2) would rather die than be captured. Hell, it's hard enough extracting hostages alive and they want to live.
Is anybody else saddened by the fact that we are in celebration of an individual's death? I fail to see the differences between his and our philosophies.
[Not HN] - Assuming this qualified as interesting/useful to hackers, which I disagree with but obviously it's on the front page, this is two paragraphs (at least currently?) saying Bin Laden is dead, statement to come, i.e. completely devoid of information.
It seems like his body has been buried at sea, this makes me think a lot. Where's the body? After 10 years why not wait at least tomorrow before making his body disappear the same day when he has been killed?
[+] [-] jrockway|15 years ago|reply
Until his legacy dies, he lives on, as strong as ever.
...
Can I at least bring a tube of toothpaste with me when I travel now?
[+] [-] richardw|15 years ago|reply
Hopefully the emphasis on terror will be reduced, though. Bad driving, bad diet and many other causes have definitely killed more people each than 9/11 since it happened, but it's a lot easier to focus on an external enemy you can see, especially when it has a shark-attack-like amplification on our perception of danger.
[+] [-] joe24pack|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kevin_morrill|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wladimir|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dstein|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bmunro|15 years ago|reply
You can have a few small containers - up to 100mL in each. I was able to fly with toothpaste, deodorant, insect repellent and sunscreen in my carry-on luggage on a recent trip. Nail clippers are allowed too.
Funnily enough, there are no such restrictions on domestic flights.
[+] [-] rooshdi|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] torpor|15 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] VB6_Foreverr|15 years ago|reply
Only toothpaste, what about your shaving gear? Maybe we shouldn't have any security at all, it's so inconvenient.
[+] [-] pnathan|15 years ago|reply
* In August '10 a lead was uncovered. Obama directed followup.
* Lead was strengthened over time until it was isolated that bin Laden was in a compound in Pakistan.
* Obama gave the order and an American commando team went in, had a firefight, and killed bin Laden. His body was brought out.
* No Americans were harmed, and civilians were attempted to be protected.
* The Pakistani government was notified (speech did not say if this was pre-event or post-event).
And, transcript! http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/05/02/osama-bin-laden-de...
[+] [-] abalashov|15 years ago|reply
Besides that, it's simply not like me to cheer for anyone's death, in principle, especially a figure the TV adamantly asserts we're supposed to hate. It's not that I doubt the veracity of the reasons given so much as I loathe demagoguery and spectacle.
[+] [-] russnewcomer|15 years ago|reply
And I sure hope this doesn't make the U.S. pull out of Afghanistan in the next 90 days like NBC just implied, because that would be bad for everyone in that country.
EDIT if OBL really was killed in a mansion in Islamabad, that changes a lot in relations between the US and Pakistan. If he was killed in the FATA, then it's pretty meaningless operationally, it's just a news deal that will inflame the jihadi world for a while.
Edit2 Abbottabad is in NWFP, so not exactly Islamabad and a different interesting. If Obama didn't get Pakistan's permission before going, that is interesting. Not going to change wars on the ground except for a inflammation in jihadi tensions.
[+] [-] lanceusa|15 years ago|reply
Specifically: "...justice has been done". American military and C.I.A. operatives had ...shot him to death.
Obama: "I authorized an operation to get Osama bin Laden and bring him to justice."
Obama: "His demise should be welcome by all who believe in peace and human dignity."
Is that how we conduct justice now? I am not satisfied by this outcome. I would rather have had him in custody showing we hold the higher ground when it pertains to morality and justice. Its no surprise to me now that our morality and judgment is an illusion which I thought, ever since I was a kid, was what made America great. The fact that Obama plays off people's emotions in his speech to gain support for this outcome is purely disgusting.
And lastly, you believe this because the media and Obama says its so?
[+] [-] mekoka|15 years ago|reply
I'm confused as to what you're unhappy about and who you're blaming for this outcome. Some courageous soldiers attempted to get an elusive mass murderer and bring him to justice. During the attempt there was a firefight and he was killed in the exchange.
It is obvious that this outcome is upsetting for a lot of people, but not for the same reasons than yours. This man caused a lot of griefs to many families, not only in the U.S., but also throughout places in the world where Al Qaeda has stricken, (including Afghanistan). Some scars are still not completely healed.
Those words, "His demise should be welcome by all who believe in peace and human dignity", simply serve as solace for the fact that they were unable to take him alive.
Now, turning this into an Obama thing is your own prerogative. Was he taking credit/responsibility in the video? To some extent certainly, but I didn't perceived him trying to play with people's emotions.
[+] [-] jswanson|15 years ago|reply
Rejoicing in the assassination of anyone, even such a criminal, seems crass.
All the congratulatory uproar strikes me as a little bit surreal.
[+] [-] xutopia|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] matthewcieplak|15 years ago|reply
Given knowledge of his whereabouts, the prosecution of a terrorist mastermind and financier was the only option, though I suppose whether it would be better to try and execute him or kill him in combat is debatable.
[+] [-] sp332|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Qz|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] trickjarrett|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] paul9290|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nikcub|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] joe24pack|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] joeguilmette|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zyphlar|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rdtsc|15 years ago|reply
1) Quickly find (or make up) another evil empire or shadow enemy to be afraid of. Suggestions: Wikileaks, music pirates, subversive citizens, militias, Arab dictators, nullification by jury educators ...
[+] [-] Osiris|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Rariel|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mikle|15 years ago|reply
I'm gonna go on a wild guess and say that Ben Gurion airport is one of the most secure airports on Earth. I don't see any justification for all the above stuff.
[+] [-] axomhacker|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Apocryphon|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] meterplech|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dr_|15 years ago|reply
From Andrew Sullivan on Daily Beast: "12.08 pm Can I say how deeply moving it is that a man named Barack Hussein Obama gave the order for the operation that killed Osama bin Laden?
The pre-eminent symbol of our the multicultural, multiracial society of the future defeated the pre-eminent symbol of the darkest, bleakest throwback to medieval religious fanaticism. Im not ashamed to use the following language: Good defeated evil. And hope rekindles again."
[+] [-] tectonic|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Vivtek|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] die_sekte|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] espeed|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aterimperator|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gexla|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Sukotto|15 years ago|reply
Personally, I think it probably went down more or less as reported. Namely that he was killed in the firefight. Probably not on purpose.
I know a little bit about close-in operations like this one must have been and, well, it's hard to keep a guy alive who is (1) shooting at you and (2) would rather die than be captured. Hell, it's hard enough extracting hostages alive and they want to live.
[+] [-] wcchandler|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nopassrecover|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] offshoreguy|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kloncks|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Osiris|15 years ago|reply
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2011/05/obama-gives-...
[+] [-] jim_h|15 years ago|reply
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/05/01/live-video-of-pr...
[+] [-] Cushman|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fosk|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] inoop|15 years ago|reply
edit: burial at sea is in accordance with Islam, why is apparently why they did it.