Just want to put here that if you're using a Mac and haven't tried Safari recently, you're missing out. A few things:
- Battery life is fantastic compared to Chrome/FF
- Privacy seems to be top-notch
- The tab ordering situation is now chrome-like (my biggest gripe in older versions of safari)
- Experimental features are 1 click away, easily enable/disable WebGL2
- Support for the WebExtensions standard means addons are trickling back into the ecosystem - I'm happy with my AdBlocker and Nightmode extensions
- Actually decent dev tools (used to be terrible)
- Native support for keychain + fingerprint
I've been using it for the past year after being on Chrome, and it's really impressive how much work they've put into not only catching up, but in many regards, jumping ahead.
> - Actually decent dev tools (used to be terrible)
As a daily user of Safari, I can't let you say that. The devtools suck. The network tools suck (why is it so hard to find the request payload??), the elements tools suck, there are basically no extensions (React, Redux, etc.). They are just horrible. As much as I try to use only Safari, I still fallback on Firefox Dev when I need some real devtools.
I use it for the reasons you mention but it's a really bad browser. It's the only browser that still has consistent rendering issues in 2020: sometimes parts of the pages stay blank, CSS grid support has inconsistencies with other browsers, and some basic layouts fail only on Safari.
Another one of my pet peeves with Safari is text selection. It's the worst I have ever seen: https://imgur.com/qC7amU1
It has the potential to be good, but it's just not.
1. Just lost a few hundred Tabs from last session. Not the first time this has happened to me on Safari. ( Firefox used to have this problem as well, they implemented multiple LastSession.json to combat the problem and it is basically a thing of the past. )
2. Fav Icons meant they are no longer showing the Tab Description once you have a dozen tabs as they will shrink to Icons Size. So you either have normal Tabs or Tabs with Fav Icons, not both. ( This is new in Safari 14 )
3. Show Tab Overview will reload all the tabs, including those that were in idle / unload state. If you are a heavy tab user you should not do this. Having a hundred tabs reload will cause hundreds of GB of Data written to your SSD. Basically shortening its lifespan.
4. AFAIK ( I could be wrong ), Extensions still requires you to have an $99/ year developer account. Some of my favourite extensions are now either paid or can no longer be used.
A few things that kept me from using Safari full time (instead of Chrome) last time I tried it:
- On my 15" Macbook Pro (mid 2014), when you speed up videos in Safari the sound is distorted and weird, while in Chrome it sounds properly sped up. I use this a lot when watching educational videos.
- Youtube videos max out at 1080p.
- While there are decent ad blocking extensions, they're not as good as uBlock Origin.
- Web pages are fast and smooth, but the browser UI doesn't consistently feel as quick and snappy as Chrome.
- I once saw some rendering bugs when loading old reddit -- parts of the page were black.
Sorry, as someone who maintains and develops a web application, from my perspective Safari is the new Internet Explorer. I had to wrote so many workarounds for Safari now, it is just annoying. And you even can't write real bug reports for it! The worst was an incorrect daylight saving time handling which drove me nuts, because some users had problems with the application and some not.
I've been under the assumption that FF with its ABP, uBlock, and Privacy Badger extensions, as well as the included FF tracking protections were the toughest you can get. Is Safari is up to that level now?
> - Support for the WebExtensions standard means addons are trickling back into the ecosystem - I'm happy with my AdBlocker and Nightmode extensions
The critical functionality required for uBlock Origin and other request-based ad-blockers is blocking using the WebRequest API, which isn't supported in WebExtensions in Safari [0].
I have absolutely zero interest in using a browser that is locked to a single platform. I move constantly between Windows and Linux (I don't have any Mac machines right now) and the idea of using a different browser on each platform seems crazy.
Probably because they use unexposed, undocumented APIs, but non-hardware accelerated CSS animations that trigger repaints (width, top, etc) in Safari are much, much smoother than in Chrome and FF. They look almost as good as accelerated animations.
Unfortunately I can't really commit to using Safari on desktop because they don't have good ad blocking extensions (please correct me if I'm wrong). Really like FF for this.
But I really appreciate how Apple is committed to improving and highlighting Safari. After totalitarian regimes, browser engine monoculture is the greatest threat to Internet freedom I can think of.
I've been on the public beta of Big Sur for months (and issued Feedback Assistant bug reports on this). As of 11.0.1, there's still a dealbreaker bug for people who use external monitors.
If you unplug an external display and then plug it back in, none of your apps' windows (which were on the external display’s Space beforehand) are visible or where they used to be. The external monitor’s Space usually appears completely empty.
Twice bitten, thrice shy. Every MacOS upgrade for the past 5+ years has been a bag of hurt: regressions in functionality and stability, annoying "features" like Notification Center and Catalina warning nags, various PITAs on fixing UNIX/dev toolchains, all for little to no benefit. I've stopped upgrading all my machines (other than security updates), unless forced by a mission-critical app or a new machine.
Running iOS apps on the M1 Macs feels like such a game changer. Literally too cause a lot of games have been ported to iOS and now you can easily run them on Macs that were not possible before (Final Fantasy franchise for example). People can now play PUBG (although the mobile version but still). Fortnite (which have been removed but if you have downloaded it before you can still play it). And so many other games. I think the whole thing is not just a step but a huge leap forward. I really wonder what the future holds, just looking at the performance of the M1 chips. Wishful thinking but the fact that the Switch is also on the ARM platform I hope we will see more games on Mac. This feels like the 2007 iPhone moment again.
Man I still haven't even left Mojave for Catalina. I don't think I'm gonna be changing OSs until I buy a second or third generation ARM Air that comes with whatever they're calling the 2022 Mac OS.
Not a great download experience so far. It has already failed twice partway through (2nd time after 9.0 GB out of 12.0 GB). And since this is Apple, who has somehow never figured out how to implement resumable downloads, it just starts from scratch again.
The look and feel of Big Sur is like a breath of fresh air. It definitely feels related to iPadOS with the colors and buttons that seem destined for a touchscreen but as somebody who uses multiple Apple devices it was comforting rather than annoying.
There are ongoing issues with Apple locking down potential security problems and this makes some people unhappy. Carbon Copy Cloner didn't work with creating a bootable backup for a couple of months. Most people are happier with the increased security.
The look of Big Sur could be better. Rounded text fields look exactly like buttons in the light mode, which is bad. They differ slightly in the dark mode, which is great because I'll be using the dark mode.
Also, I don't like how the buttons in the toolbar don't have any borders and have an annoying delayed hover background color effect.
Apple is rumored to have fixed the ASR issues blocking bootable backups in the very last release candidate, though I don’t have a solid confirmation of that yet.
It reminds me of Ubuntu when Canonical decided to replace GTK2 with the Unity desktop environment. Maybe people disliked that update and I am sure some people will dislike Apple’s too but at the end of the year everyone will prize the new UI like they always do.
Yes, and it's especially awkward on smaller screens (MacBook Air, Low DPI external monitors...). Doesn't seem like a great decision unless they have some plans on making the UI touch ready.
For those with download issues, developer.apple.com is timing out currently. Appears Apple is having system issues (and I'd link to the developer status page, but it's down too. All other Apple services appear to be up).
I actually kind of like WebKit as an engine that so many small independent browsers can be based on, but to me this is an interesting example of just how grounded in reality this marketing copy is.
It's certainly the most battery efficient browser which suggests to me they are doing something right with performance.
A lot of this seems to involve how deep down browser specific behaviors the developer goes. I've seen a few pages that work better under Chrome than Safari. Even big Storybook sites seem to do better under Chrome.
The JetStream, MotionMark, and Speedometer benchmarks are fairly "grounded in reality", don't you think? That's where the speed claims come from on this page: https://www.apple.com/safari/
Currently there is an outage preventing users from downloading the update - also experiencing extreme slowness on all macs after having selected the update for download - even though the download has failed. Not a good sign of things to come.
Exactly the same. 15 Hours Remaining. And I have an 1Gbps Internet connection.
I dont understand why. It seems macOS update and iOS update dont share the same CDN infrastructure. Could someone comment on possible reasons why that is the case?
If you're interested in knowing when this is going to be resolved, check out visualping.io or another website change detection service and set up a job for https://www.apple.com/support/systemstatus/ under "macOS Software Update - Issue."
I never installed Catalina on my Desktop Mac because the security processes crossed the line of usability (for me). But Apple's love for deprecation is eventually going to push me to later OS'es -- and those OS'es will be decreasingly interested in performing well on my Intel hardware.
Every MacOS upgrade for the last few years has made my computer less stable and required me to reboot more often. So I'm going to hold off as long as I can.
Just this moment my laptop's keyboard and mouse took well over a minute to work after coming back from sleep. Twice in a row so time to reboot I guess.
I'm still on Mojave, I dread upgrading to Catalina and watching the 125GB FREE disk space halve in a single installation. For the first time I am behind by 2 releases. Is Mojave the XP of MacOS installs ?
I believe you can still block the specific destination IPs with pf using murus if you want, but yes it's quite bothersome.
You can find the full list of apps that bypass it here:
/System/Library/Frameworks/NetworkExtension.framework/Versions/A/Resources/Info.plist under ContentFilterExclusionList.
[+] [-] jkelleyrtp|5 years ago|reply
- Battery life is fantastic compared to Chrome/FF
- Privacy seems to be top-notch
- The tab ordering situation is now chrome-like (my biggest gripe in older versions of safari)
- Experimental features are 1 click away, easily enable/disable WebGL2
- Support for the WebExtensions standard means addons are trickling back into the ecosystem - I'm happy with my AdBlocker and Nightmode extensions
- Actually decent dev tools (used to be terrible)
- Native support for keychain + fingerprint
I've been using it for the past year after being on Chrome, and it's really impressive how much work they've put into not only catching up, but in many regards, jumping ahead.
[+] [-] thiht|5 years ago|reply
As a daily user of Safari, I can't let you say that. The devtools suck. The network tools suck (why is it so hard to find the request payload??), the elements tools suck, there are basically no extensions (React, Redux, etc.). They are just horrible. As much as I try to use only Safari, I still fallback on Firefox Dev when I need some real devtools.
I use it for the reasons you mention but it's a really bad browser. It's the only browser that still has consistent rendering issues in 2020: sometimes parts of the pages stay blank, CSS grid support has inconsistencies with other browsers, and some basic layouts fail only on Safari.
Another one of my pet peeves with Safari is text selection. It's the worst I have ever seen: https://imgur.com/qC7amU1
It has the potential to be good, but it's just not.
[+] [-] ksec|5 years ago|reply
1. Just lost a few hundred Tabs from last session. Not the first time this has happened to me on Safari. ( Firefox used to have this problem as well, they implemented multiple LastSession.json to combat the problem and it is basically a thing of the past. )
2. Fav Icons meant they are no longer showing the Tab Description once you have a dozen tabs as they will shrink to Icons Size. So you either have normal Tabs or Tabs with Fav Icons, not both. ( This is new in Safari 14 )
3. Show Tab Overview will reload all the tabs, including those that were in idle / unload state. If you are a heavy tab user you should not do this. Having a hundred tabs reload will cause hundreds of GB of Data written to your SSD. Basically shortening its lifespan.
4. AFAIK ( I could be wrong ), Extensions still requires you to have an $99/ year developer account. Some of my favourite extensions are now either paid or can no longer be used.
Apart from that, yes it is very good.
[+] [-] amativos|5 years ago|reply
- On my 15" Macbook Pro (mid 2014), when you speed up videos in Safari the sound is distorted and weird, while in Chrome it sounds properly sped up. I use this a lot when watching educational videos.
- Youtube videos max out at 1080p.
- While there are decent ad blocking extensions, they're not as good as uBlock Origin.
- Web pages are fast and smooth, but the browser UI doesn't consistently feel as quick and snappy as Chrome.
- I once saw some rendering bugs when loading old reddit -- parts of the page were black.
This was Safari 14.
[+] [-] Aldipower|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] izacus|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jb1991|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] InTheArena|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Shank|5 years ago|reply
The critical functionality required for uBlock Origin and other request-based ad-blockers is blocking using the WebRequest API, which isn't supported in WebExtensions in Safari [0].
[0]: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Add-ons/Web... [0]: https://github.com/mdn/browser-compat-data/blob/master/webex...
[+] [-] doitdoitdoit|5 years ago|reply
It’s just one of those “no-shit” killer features that a browser touting its privacy-centricity cannot afford to not have
[+] [-] dekhn|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dmitryminkovsky|5 years ago|reply
Unfortunately I can't really commit to using Safari on desktop because they don't have good ad blocking extensions (please correct me if I'm wrong). Really like FF for this.
But I really appreciate how Apple is committed to improving and highlighting Safari. After totalitarian regimes, browser engine monoculture is the greatest threat to Internet freedom I can think of.
[+] [-] mikewhy|5 years ago|reply
- Pinned tabs are actually pinned tabs, not a small tab at the side of a single window that can still be easily closed
[+] [-] spenvo|5 years ago|reply
https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/651131?answerId=64... https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/jt0gjk/big_sur_forge...
I've been on the public beta of Big Sur for months (and issued Feedback Assistant bug reports on this). As of 11.0.1, there's still a dealbreaker bug for people who use external monitors.
If you unplug an external display and then plug it back in, none of your apps' windows (which were on the external display’s Space beforehand) are visible or where they used to be. The external monitor’s Space usually appears completely empty.
I genuinely hope Apple fixes this ASAP.
[+] [-] lukifer|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gnachman|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] haunter|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] egypturnash|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] makecheck|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] phs318u|5 years ago|reply
A big news story of a major new version of a significant OS, and the entire front page is a discussion about the browser.
For those that want to discuss other features: https://www.apple.com/macos/big-sur/features/
Or even more technically: https://developer.apple.com/macos/whats-new/
[+] [-] jdeibele|5 years ago|reply
There are ongoing issues with Apple locking down potential security problems and this makes some people unhappy. Carbon Copy Cloner didn't work with creating a bootable backup for a couple of months. Most people are happier with the increased security.
[+] [-] gardaani|5 years ago|reply
Also, I don't like how the buttons in the toolbar don't have any borders and have an annoying delayed hover background color effect.
Otherwise, the UI is quite usable.
[+] [-] Y-bar|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] alwillis|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] r00fus|5 years ago|reply
I wonder when a touchscreen mac will be ushered in by Apple. My kids always smudge up my laptop screen attempting to avoid the trackpad.
[+] [-] floatingatoll|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] solarkraft|5 years ago|reply
Apple UI used to be remarkably space-economical until Big Sur.
[+] [-] guessmyname|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] trinix912|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] easton|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vmchale|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] boogies|5 years ago|reply
I actually kind of like WebKit as an engine that so many small independent browsers can be based on, but to me this is an interesting example of just how grounded in reality this marketing copy is.
[+] [-] wffurr|5 years ago|reply
WebGL 2 is required for MSAA-enabled offscreen framebuffers among other features that aren't available in WebGL 1 as extensions.
[+] [-] ogre_codes|5 years ago|reply
A lot of this seems to involve how deep down browser specific behaviors the developer goes. I've seen a few pages that work better under Chrome than Safari. Even big Storybook sites seem to do better under Chrome.
[+] [-] snazz|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] skuthus|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] j0ej0ej0e|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] andrewmcwatters|5 years ago|reply
Edit: Oh no, it just failed on me, too.
[+] [-] ksec|5 years ago|reply
I dont understand why. It seems macOS update and iOS update dont share the same CDN infrastructure. Could someone comment on possible reasons why that is the case?
[+] [-] cknoxrun|5 years ago|reply
Interesting, usually these big updates are fast, even hours after launching. It could indicate bigger demand than expected, or a technical problem.
[+] [-] andrewmcwatters|5 years ago|reply
Be nice though, and check infrequently.
Edit: This is now resolved.
[+] [-] etqwzutewzu|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nultxt|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] waynecochran|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xyst|5 years ago|reply
https://twitter.com/patrickwardle/status/1318465421796782082
[+] [-] marcinzm|5 years ago|reply
Just this moment my laptop's keyboard and mouse took well over a minute to work after coming back from sleep. Twice in a row so time to reboot I guess.
[+] [-] Zelphyr|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tasssko|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] claudeganon|5 years ago|reply
https://twitter.com/patrickwardle/status/1318437929497235457
[+] [-] hello_asdf|5 years ago|reply
You can find the full list of apps that bypass it here: /System/Library/Frameworks/NetworkExtension.framework/Versions/A/Resources/Info.plist under ContentFilterExclusionList.