I like to have an occasional drink. I suspect that mild drinking on the order of 1 glass of wine per day is not likely to cause harm and would probably be something that a doctor wouldnt feel bad recommending as being generally safe to possible stress reduction health benefits.
That said, there is plenty of research suggesting not drinking is healthier for you and non drinkers are much less apt to diseases like cancer et al. I also think there are plenty of folks who either dont want to or cant stop drinking that would include some doctors that would not want to suggest not drinking at all.
I definitely notice anxiety increases either the day after or the night of drinking. In some ways I could see it causing a feedback loop, but I also somewhat enjoy what I would consider a jolt of reflection during those times. Am I treating people with kindness? Am I too focused on the wrong thing? That said, as Ive gotten older, I think curbing to completely stopping drinking is the trend for me.
Don't forget you will get some reduction in sleep quality even from just 1 glass. You may fall asleep more easily but it is not as restorative. I really struggle with that as I get older.
What's interesting is that alcohol will probably kill far more people this decade than Covid or opioids, yet very little attention gets paid to this. It's an enormous negative influence on our society, yet there's a lot of social pressure pushing for alcohol use, and we allow advertisements that encourage it. I wonder if in the future we'll look back on this the way we now look back at how ubiquitous smoking was a few decades ago.
There's an interesting discussion around alcohol and hormetic stress. I can't provide a good summary of it in a comment but the wikipedia page is a good starting point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormesis.
"an immune protein called Interleukin 10, or IL-10 [...] By boosting IL-10 signaling in the brain, [...] scientists could reverse the aberrant effects [...] a stark reduction in anxiety-like behaviors and motivation to drink alcohol."
As usual, the 'in mice' caveat applies, but if there is a compound which can both reduce anxiety and motivation to drink that works on humans without terrible side effects, it would certainly be huge.
Interesting. My psychiatrist pointed out at one point that drinking can cause increased anxiety for several days. Ever since I’ve paid attention to it and she’s definitely right - days where my anxiety is higher follows drinking 2-3 days before.
If I can notice it after one night out, it doesn’t surprise me that long term the two could be highly linked.
Interesting that "anti-inflammatory" is mentioned several times in this short piece.
I used to be a moderate drinker, having 1-2 per day several times a week. After stopping completely about 8 or 9 months ago, I no longer have acid reflux or that burning feeling in the back of my throat from spicy food.
This was an unexpected and wonderful result, to say nothing of dramatic weight loss and other benefits.
I used to think there could be health benefits to moderate drinking, but in retrospect it was only a justification for unhealthy behavior.
An altered immune response makes sense, given what alcohol puts your body through.
It wasn't obvious how much use or how chronic the use had to be - is it implied to be chronic heavy drinking or just the glass of wine a day that causes the changes?
Apparently enough alcohol exposure to show addictive behaviour: the study used mice with the "2BC-CIE" exposure method:
> To induce alcohol dependence, we used the two bottle choice - chronic intermittent ethanol vapor exposure (2BC-CIE) paradigm, as previously described (Patel et al. 2019). This method consistently produces alcohol dependence in C57BL/6J mice (Becker and Lopez 2004; Bajo et al. 2016; Huitron-Resendiz et al. 2018), as exhibited by escalated alcohol intake, anxiety-like behavior and reward deficits. Briefly, mice were exposed to limited access alcohol (15% w/v) and water - two bottle choice (2BC) sessions followed by either chronic intermittent alcohol (CIE) exposure in vapor chambers (La Jolla Alcohol Research, La Jolla, CA), to induce alcohol dependence (dependent mice) or control air exposure (non-dependent control mice) in identical chambers. Naïve mice were not exposed to any alcohol either by drinking or vapor exposure.
Any suggestions for alcohol-free things to do in Covid-era NYC after hours in autumn and winter when you live by yourself and have spent all day at your desk in your bedroom?
With a bit of commute it could fill up to 2 hours of your day and have a plethora of benefits. Once you get into the whole "getting better than yesterday" thing, it's exciting to go train every day and improve your "stats".
It's still debated. The reason people think a glass per day might be helpful is observational studies, which show that people who don't drink are slightly worse off than those who drink a little. However, you can imagine how these can be confounded (e.g., not drinking because of terminal illness or some other exogenous harm). It's hard to properly adjust your model to fully eliminate this sort of problem.
In contrast, Mendelian randomization studies generally suggest that there is no safe level of alcohol intake.
I am mostly convinced by the MR studies and think that alcohol is harmful for physical health (while being mindful that physical health is just one of many competing things that people value).
One of the main researchers behind all the health buzz around red wine, was revealed as a fraud. Having falsified data at least 145 times. I guess he wouldn't have had to do that if red wine was healthy.
Quite likely it's just something people like to hear, so it is being told to them. I vaguely recall that correlation between red wine consumption and longevity disappears if controlled for wealth. Can't find any links tho.
I have found zero medical societies/health institutes that recommend someone begin drinking alcohol who currently abstains for any reason. If you already drink alcohol, consuming a single serving of red wine per day is probably not detrimental.
The pop science articles (think NYT, etc.) love to lead with clickbait like "Wine could extend your life by X years" but from what I can tell alcohol in the west, to the extent that it extends lifespans, does so by thinning blood, which is needed because of our poor (high fat) diet.
Intuitively I would imagine it depends on the person. If you’re a person with a weak liver or kidney, there is probably no positive. If you’re a person with thicker than average blood, I could understand how alcohol might alleviate the amount of work the heart has to do, at least for a little while.
After not drinking alcohol for more than a year, I just feel alcohol is such a drag on life. A lot of mental energy and time consumed in alcohol related activities. Planning, buying, drinking and recovery from hangover if you had too many. Not to mention physical effects like upset stomach, feeling cranky next day, headaches etc.
Just like we don't like to overwork, so our body. Not processing alcohol and its side effects - few less things to do for our body. I feel very calm most of the time and less anxious than before. I also didn't fell sick in last one year. No visit to doc.
Above all net positive in mental and physical wellbeing are too good to have one or two drinks.
If Biden follows the playbook he had with Barack goodness knows he'll give the boys in blue and black whatever they want when it comes to surveillance of private citizens.
I genuinely believe that if alcohol wasn't "invented" thousands of years ago most societies would treat it like they treat dangerous and physically harmful drugs like heroin or cocaine. Looking at the data and what we know about biochemistry and human physiology, it's absolutely indefensible that alcohol is available in every corner store but possessing the marijuana equivalent of a single bottle of liquor sends someone to prison for years.
I dunno. Where I live I can go to the cannabis store across from the liquor store in the big-box mall and purchase reasonable rations of each using my credit card and not get arrested. I can even go to the government-owned websites and order cannabis or liquor online for delivery.
I have also been to Peru where I was woken each day with a hot cup of coca tea and I could buy packaged coca leaves in the supermarkets.
I think "most societies" treat psychoactive substances with respect and toleration and view the over-consumption or inappropriate use as a disease that needs treatment. It is only a few social outliers that do not.
The problem is: Alcohol is available to anyone, whether corner stores offer it or not. Just take your favorite type of fruit and let it rot. So alcohol being legal is probably also a consequence of the fact that it is very hard to forbid. (Case in point: The Prohibition.)
One reason alcohol is so prevalent is that it's a natural product of fermentation of items that we consume. There are videos of dozens of different species of animals drunk on alcohol in rotten food out in the environment. I wouldn't be surprised that the reason we can function relatively well with alcohol use is that we evolved to tolerate it.
I agree, but it depends on where you live. Here in California it’s legal recreationally. Psilocybin mushrooms are next.
It is a great hypocrisy that some substances are so vilified and criminalized while others are sold openly to great profit. I have a feeling it simply has to do with _who_ stood to benefit the most when those substances first became known.
It will take a lot of work to correct but with good education and open minds we’ll get there.
I never had a drinking problem, but quitting alcohol altogether has resulted in nothing but positive outcomes.
It's curious how my friends from college are largely in two groups now (not correlated to intelligence or motivation);
A) not really that interested in alcohol and focussed on work
B) focused on work but drink every night and still "party" all the time
This is seemingly an American phenomenon that's incredibly regressive and also seems to negatively affect women more than men. For whatever reason, women also seem more susceptible to the trap of drinking and partying excessively.
[+] [-] S_A_P|5 years ago|reply
That said, there is plenty of research suggesting not drinking is healthier for you and non drinkers are much less apt to diseases like cancer et al. I also think there are plenty of folks who either dont want to or cant stop drinking that would include some doctors that would not want to suggest not drinking at all.
I definitely notice anxiety increases either the day after or the night of drinking. In some ways I could see it causing a feedback loop, but I also somewhat enjoy what I would consider a jolt of reflection during those times. Am I treating people with kindness? Am I too focused on the wrong thing? That said, as Ive gotten older, I think curbing to completely stopping drinking is the trend for me.
[+] [-] thih9|5 years ago|reply
Some doctors would say a different thing.
“This might not be the answer people want to hear, but there is no safe level for drinking alcohol.”
https://www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/disease-prevention...
[+] [-] gameswithgo|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bnralt|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mircea|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] slfnflctd|5 years ago|reply
"an immune protein called Interleukin 10, or IL-10 [...] By boosting IL-10 signaling in the brain, [...] scientists could reverse the aberrant effects [...] a stark reduction in anxiety-like behaviors and motivation to drink alcohol."
As usual, the 'in mice' caveat applies, but if there is a compound which can both reduce anxiety and motivation to drink that works on humans without terrible side effects, it would certainly be huge.
[+] [-] chrismeller|5 years ago|reply
If I can notice it after one night out, it doesn’t surprise me that long term the two could be highly linked.
[+] [-] amelius|5 years ago|reply
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4292849/
[+] [-] nkozyra|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JamesBarney|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] strict9|5 years ago|reply
I used to be a moderate drinker, having 1-2 per day several times a week. After stopping completely about 8 or 9 months ago, I no longer have acid reflux or that burning feeling in the back of my throat from spicy food.
This was an unexpected and wonderful result, to say nothing of dramatic weight loss and other benefits.
I used to think there could be health benefits to moderate drinking, but in retrospect it was only a justification for unhealthy behavior.
An altered immune response makes sense, given what alcohol puts your body through.
[+] [-] ciarannolan|5 years ago|reply
How long did it take before you noticed this change?
[+] [-] Jailbird|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lstamour|5 years ago|reply
> To induce alcohol dependence, we used the two bottle choice - chronic intermittent ethanol vapor exposure (2BC-CIE) paradigm, as previously described (Patel et al. 2019). This method consistently produces alcohol dependence in C57BL/6J mice (Becker and Lopez 2004; Bajo et al. 2016; Huitron-Resendiz et al. 2018), as exhibited by escalated alcohol intake, anxiety-like behavior and reward deficits. Briefly, mice were exposed to limited access alcohol (15% w/v) and water - two bottle choice (2BC) sessions followed by either chronic intermittent alcohol (CIE) exposure in vapor chambers (La Jolla Alcohol Research, La Jolla, CA), to induce alcohol dependence (dependent mice) or control air exposure (non-dependent control mice) in identical chambers. Naïve mice were not exposed to any alcohol either by drinking or vapor exposure.
A diagram on a similar study can be found at https://www.researchgate.net/figure/A-General-CIE-protocol-f... - for the diagram from this study, see page 4.
[+] [-] kevin_thibedeau|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] coward8675309|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] carabiner|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kangax|5 years ago|reply
With a bit of commute it could fill up to 2 hours of your day and have a plethora of benefits. Once you get into the whole "getting better than yesterday" thing, it's exciting to go train every day and improve your "stats".
[+] [-] s_dev|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] seoulbran|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hnracer|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] carbocation|5 years ago|reply
In contrast, Mendelian randomization studies generally suggest that there is no safe level of alcohol intake.
I am mostly convinced by the MR studies and think that alcohol is harmful for physical health (while being mindful that physical health is just one of many competing things that people value).
[+] [-] tokai|5 years ago|reply
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dipak_K._Das
[+] [-] DenisM|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] samsa|5 years ago|reply
The pop science articles (think NYT, etc.) love to lead with clickbait like "Wine could extend your life by X years" but from what I can tell alcohol in the west, to the extent that it extends lifespans, does so by thinning blood, which is needed because of our poor (high fat) diet.
[+] [-] makerofspoons|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dheera|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] marsrover|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kajecounterhack|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vardaro|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] elvis70|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ph2082|5 years ago|reply
Just like we don't like to overwork, so our body. Not processing alcohol and its side effects - few less things to do for our body. I feel very calm most of the time and less anxious than before. I also didn't fell sick in last one year. No visit to doc.
Above all net positive in mental and physical wellbeing are too good to have one or two drinks.
[+] [-] jeisc|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] calimac|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] calvinmorrison|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] birdyrooster|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] batt4good|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fasteo|5 years ago|reply
"To induce alcohol dependence, we used the two bottle choice - chronic intermittent ethanol vapor exposure (2BC-CIE) paradigm"
Is this pure ethanol ? If so, conclusions about wine and health do not apply here.
Wine - as in fermented, not distilled beverage - is much more than ethanol, much like coffee is much more than caffeine.
[+] [-] 29athrowaway|5 years ago|reply
btw, what was I saying? nvm.
[+] [-] minikites|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bregma|5 years ago|reply
I have also been to Peru where I was woken each day with a hot cup of coca tea and I could buy packaged coca leaves in the supermarkets.
I think "most societies" treat psychoactive substances with respect and toleration and view the over-consumption or inappropriate use as a disease that needs treatment. It is only a few social outliers that do not.
[+] [-] codethief|5 years ago|reply
The problem is: Alcohol is available to anyone, whether corner stores offer it or not. Just take your favorite type of fruit and let it rot. So alcohol being legal is probably also a consequence of the fact that it is very hard to forbid. (Case in point: The Prohibition.)
[+] [-] colordrops|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sosborn|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Rapzid|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] inglor_cz|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] efnx|5 years ago|reply
It is a great hypocrisy that some substances are so vilified and criminalized while others are sold openly to great profit. I have a feeling it simply has to do with _who_ stood to benefit the most when those substances first became known.
It will take a lot of work to correct but with good education and open minds we’ll get there.
[+] [-] joduplessis|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] batt4good|5 years ago|reply
It's curious how my friends from college are largely in two groups now (not correlated to intelligence or motivation);
A) not really that interested in alcohol and focussed on work
B) focused on work but drink every night and still "party" all the time
This is seemingly an American phenomenon that's incredibly regressive and also seems to negatively affect women more than men. For whatever reason, women also seem more susceptible to the trap of drinking and partying excessively.