I personally find the Angry Birds-Facebook-Netflix picture of the future of computing extremely depressing. Where's Google's suite of content creation apps that "non-techy" people can explore to express their creativity?
Can this put music on an MP3 player? Just how is the real filesystem abstracted away in Chrome OS? If you buy music from Amazon MP3, can you run their downloader? (If you buy music from iTunes, I am pretty sure you are SOL already. ;) )
There's a lot of uses that still require a real, local desktop, and I think once you give this to all of your non-techy family members you'll start to run into them.
I don't understand why those complaining about maintaining Windows don't just put on Ubuntu. LibreOffice is certainly more familiar to Office users and more compatible with existing Office documents than Google Docs.
If you haven't considered Ubuntu yet, why do you consider Chrome OS? It's not very hard to teach even the least technically literate person that they just need to click the big multi-colored circle to get to the internet, so it seems weird that abstracting that one step away makes everyone go wild about giving their mom a Chromebook.
So why don't you just install something like deepfreeze(or it's competitors) and be done with the support calls ?
Deepfreeze basically starts before the os and returns the computer to a frozen state you defined. it's used in libraries and internet cafes and schools , and seem to work pretty well.
This way you get: no support calls + better experience to family(apps, better privacy, known interface) + less risk and more control on the solutions you offer.
None of my non-techy family ever complained about their Linux laptops and netbooks. And I never had any call in the past 3 years. The only part which is new here is "backed by a powerful -monopolistic?- company".
I remember when I was a student, I got a computer for studies but one of my main goals was to play games (warcraft3, battlefield etc.) and I also wanted to play with photoshop. I don't know if students are willing to give out cash if it's only for viewing facebook, youtube and getting them to write papers.
I think anyone will get a laptop which gives them more freedom, for almost the same price
Weighs 1.5lbs? Nope. I'll probably get one after I see the first few reviews. However, the tablet (iPad/Android) isn't replaced by one of these. It's a different device.
Just read that for biz/edu it is a three year contract. So for business at $28/month x 36 months -- this netbook now costs $1008. If I need to deploy 1,000 of these it will cost more than $1M. Whereas a highend netbook will run $400.
So you're paying a 2.5x premium on hardware. Now you say that it lowers maintainance cost, but you can run something like SCCMS and have all machines auto updated with latest virus definitions (as well other things like updated device drivers or even power management) for $70/machine.
(The Hacker News-y response is that the i-whatever is terrible and people shouldn't use them, but my point is that a lot of people own them. People who are thinking about recommending Chromebooks to family should keep that in mind.)
Edit: Apparently, the Hacker News-y response is to downvote to oblivion for even mentioning the possibility that people you know might own an extremely popular device. Oh HN, you so silly.
Not so fast on netflix. As far as I know (and I have a vested interest so I try to stay up-to-date), Netflix doesn't work on Linux nor Android because of silverlight's DRM stack not being available on those platforms.
The rest are good but lack of Netflix support has definitely prevented me from purchasing a product in the past. This is not necessarily a problem that Google can fix right now, but hopefully it expedites Netflix' efforts to do so.
I can't imagine anyone buying this and being happy unless they are already intimately familiar with the device ahead of time. Too many limitations, with virtually no big upside functionality or user experience (unlike the iPad that makes up for limitations with some huge upside).
As I'd mentioned before I can buy an ASUS Eee PC with an AMD C30 processor for $289 and be able to use the browser of my choice, sync my iPod/iPad/iPhone, play WoW, use Skype, hook it up to my TV in the dorm, use MS Office, Visual Studio, emacs, vim, etc...
It just feels like a half-baked implementation. The price point on this needs to be a LOT cheaper. Like $100 or free for a netbook, and make the money up with targeted advertising based on them being locked into Chrome. Otherwise this doesn't seem recommendable.
It's quite obviously not targeted at you. There are people who use computers who don't even know what Emacs or Visual Studio are. They're also the ones who have major troubles keeping their computers working. Google's working on abstracting away the IT guy. I hope it works.
If I was tasked with selling Chromebooks door-to-door, my primary talking point would be "it just works" and I would point out the high cost of paying someone (GeekSquad, etc.) to perform software services on Windows computers. For people who are stumped by what we on HN consider to be minor annoyances, paying $75+/issue adds up pretty quickly. You are right that, for regular folks, the primary competitor is likely an iPad.
"hook it up to my TV in the dorm"
The Cr-48 has a VGA output, IIRC. Perhaps future Chromebooks will have HDMI output?
"sync my iPod/iPad/iPhone"
This is an interesting problem for Google. Apple clearly has no incentive to support the platform. The value proposition for a home user is not strong unless a Chromebook can replace a Windows laptop. Besides photo uploading, what other device integration issues ruin the game? My wife would react negatively if she could not use a scanner. Google's cloud printing scheme is an obvious end-run around direct support of printers. Perhaps they will roll-out a similar scanning scheme?
I kinda thought the same way before I received a pilot CR48. This machine is perfect for couch surfing and emailing. It's super light, doesn't get hot, instant on, and I rarely plug in the charger. It fails miserably when I want to do any development though.
Most people don't want a choice of browser or to worry about syncing different accounts or running WoW on every single computer they buy. Most people want to browse the web without virusus or hassles or intrusive software updates.
It's very very clear that this is not meant for full content creation and gaming and a giant desktop experience. This is meant for the web on the go. If you don't want it, that's fine. But are you seriously saying you can't imagine a single living human being wanting this device? Ken, you're being silly here. Clearly, this is something that fits the needs of a huge number of people.
" The price point on this needs to be a LOT cheaper. Like $100 or free for a netbook..."
But that's exactly what they've done with the monthly hardware/software subscription for businesses and universities. The hardware is free. You just pay $20-$30 permonth.
If they have one in the $100-$200 dollar range I'll be seriously considering buying one for my Mother. All she uses is a web browser and google documents.
This would be perfect and would solve my issue of her randomly getting toolbars installed and somehow getting Firefox into a state of uselessness.
It took me a long time of exploring to realize they were talking about a laptop. I was like "Chromebook?" Is it a kindle? Is it an online scrapbook? Is it online literature?
edit: why am i being downvoted? because i don't read tech blogs 24/7? because nowhere on the website does it actually say what a chromebook is?
I too was confused by the name, I thought it was a tablet until they showed the laptop in the video.
I had actually totally forgotten about ChromeOS until the announcement. That being said, I really like it. For people (and there seems to being a growing number of my friends and acquaintances) who use primarily only web apps this is an awesome idea. I am actually considering buying one for my girlfriend when they come out.
I too thought this would be a kindle or ipad-like device that browsed the web for cheap. I was excited. Then I saw it was a crappy netbook and was disappointed. The form-factor makes a big difference for me, since I already need a full-featured laptop for my work.
"...Denise Griffin, the person in charge of Google’s small customer-support team, asked Page for a larger staff. Instead, he told her that the whole idea of customer support was ridiculous. ..."
If Google is truly going to support these devices, they're going to need a paradigm shift from Page's pre-existing "support doesn't scale" attitude... and bring their A-game.
I find it interesting that most comments here mirror the classic Slashdot iPod review: No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame.
I think this isn't targeted at the classic computer market, the one that Steve Jobs said is like like trucks. instead, it is an attempt at building a computer market that is closer to general appliances, like TVs or cell phones. Quite similar to iPad's approach, but with more focus on productivity and the web.
Whether it works will depend a lot on marketing, and also on us hackers creating the compelling web ecosystem. I already mostly live just in the browser and many do the same, so maybe the world is ready for this. We'll see
Based on my experiences with the CR-48 (which I used extensively for a few months), I have to suggest that you not get one of these laptops. Basically, ChromeOS is great, but using Atom processors is simply unacceptable for the tasks that they advertise. The only thing the CR-48 can do well is viewing static content -- and I mean truly static! Scrolling around on an otherwise-static web page is far to dynamic for it to handle. Want to play flash? Yeah right.
These new models have dual-core atoms, which will help, but mostly it's just the awful single-core performance that gets you. Even tying emails in gmail was an extremely painful experience; often the characters on the screen would lag significantly behind my tying, and it would take forever to load the different pages.
I don't think anyone is arguing that you can use these things for "real work". I'm going to argue that if you care about your time, you can't even use these things for any of the other stuff they advertise. Unless the new processors are significantly better, I'd say get something else.
Heh, I was amused that on Firefox that Javascript that does that whole stupid "fade in" crap took longer than 8 seconds to load :-). Note to web designers, its not studly its worthless bling, please don't give in to the temptation to do that stuff.
From a product perspective it does have some nice benefits for the non-techies. I'd love to get my parents something that they could carry around to read email and view pictures on which wasn't waiting for them to drive by some hijacked site. The pitch about 'let your friend use it' was also clearly the other 'big complaint' about the iPad they are addressing. I hope that means the iPad will get a 'guest' mode where you can hand it to someone without them getting access to your cookies/email etc.
The Chromebook has a lot of parallels with the electric car. For a lot of people it is a real improvement for the normal routine, but there are a few use cases outside that routine for which it just won't work.
ChromeOS has a lot of potential in institutional settings (much like the electric car) where corner cases don't exist or there can be a small handful of special purpose machines for those cases. IT costs for most organizations would plummet and manageability would go up significantly. I can't imagine how much money and software is used to lock down and secure Windows machines and back up data nine different ways. And subsequently how much is spent recovering or mitigating the loss / theft of sensitive data.
"* Obviously, you're going to need a wireless network, be willing to use it subject to the provider's terms and conditions, and be ready to put up with its real life limitations including, for example, its speed and availability. When you do not have network access, functionality that depends on it will not be available."
That's some very important information to put in a footnote at the bottom of the webpage. I'll have to check network availability in my most common locations before deciding whether or not this is useful for me or one of my children.
So, you can get a full featured eeepc for the same price as a chromebook, but google expects people to pay just as must because (I guess?) it's so simple to use and doesn't have viruses? I don't think that's how normal people buy things. People don't want simple for simple's sake. They want good design. People do want features. They do want power. They will not choose a less powerful solution because of vague imputed simplicity. As far as I can tell, the only simplicity benefits a chromebook has to offer is by providing strictly less features.
The ipad, although superficially similar to a chromebook in some senses, is a completely different product. Its design, both software and hardware, is utterly and completely unlike chromebook. You won't get far extrapolating ipad's success to chromebook.
Microsoft would not be able to sell a version of Word without print capabilities, even though it would be slightly simpler. No one would buy it obviously. I think a lot of technically oriented people have the wrong idea about what constitutes a valuable trade-off between simplicity and power in a product. Like I mentioned, people want well-designed.
Chromebook is an uncanny valley netbook, and it will be a disappointment. Unless I'm wrong. :)
PS - Another thing technically literate folks overestimate due to tribulations of the past is the extent to which viruses continue to be a nuisance.
A little pricy for me to be honest. Is an all day battery and 100MB of 3G data a month worth giving up a whole lot of features over a netbook? For some, maybe. But for me, no.
The data service (http://www.google.com/chromebook/#features-connectivity) looks nice for people who don't do a ton of streaming. In fact, if chromeos has ssh, it would probably do for my work laptop at something better than a netbook + verizon dongle, and a whole lot cheaper. (well, I think right now it's $60/5gb, and I rarely hit that).
They don't seem to be priced any better than similar Windows machines, although it's hard to find exact comparisons since most things with Atom processors only go up to 10" screens.
One big point about this, esp if it takes off. It answers a big question:
How do you get J. Random User to use Linux?
Don't call it Linux. Don't make it look like Linux. And Chrome for Windows synced over to an identical looking ChromeOS means he's escaped Microsoft lockin without even knowing it.
"In the near future, you’ll also be able to run traditional software remotely on our Chrome notebook. Companies like Citrix are developing solutions that will be available in the Web Store, and we are developing a free service called Chromoting that will enable Chrome notebook users to remotely access their existing PCs and Macs."
I wonder what the timeline is on this, and if it will be frustratingly slow vs. a netbook.
As an owner as one of the CR-48 test units, let me just tell you that I can get on the internet quicker on my three-year-old MacBook than this thing. The MacBook is connected to WiFi by the time I'm logged in from sleep. Not so with the CR-48.
However, the 100 free megabytes of 3G per month is nice. I've used about 400kb total since December.
That samsung version looks very nice and 8.5 hours of continuous usage is killer. However, I won't be trading in my brand new Macbook Air 13" any time soon.
It doesn't mention harddrive specs because this is supposed to be a "cloud computer." However, it definitely has a harddrive and I wonder if it is a SSD or regular spinning disc drive.
Interesting. But with the functionality mentioned above, as a student I would rather buy an iPad with hook-in keyboard. If this device is available in similar form factor, I might consider. Just a thought. I'd still buy one of these.
I think the cost of the device should be low, most people in 2011 will buy these as an add-on gadget rather than one-sto-shop. I don't know of many add-on gadgets being massively popular while costing more than $250.
I don't think this is a PC, this is an internet window. What google probably chose wrong was the netbook form factor. It's an internet window which looks like a PC, specially the one that Steve Jobs trashed at iPad launch.
[+] [-] runjake|15 years ago|reply
- runs the latest fad games, like Angry Birds (and more soon thanks to WebGL)? check.
- can connect digital camera and upload photos? check.
- can browse facebook, twitter, youtube, gmail, hotmail, etc? check
- can play flash games & netflix, hulu, & other crap? check.
This will satisfy the needs of all my immediate non-techy family members. And I won't get the monthly calls about malware anymore.
[+] [-] siglesias|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cookiecaper|15 years ago|reply
There's a lot of uses that still require a real, local desktop, and I think once you give this to all of your non-techy family members you'll start to run into them.
I don't understand why those complaining about maintaining Windows don't just put on Ubuntu. LibreOffice is certainly more familiar to Office users and more compatible with existing Office documents than Google Docs.
If you haven't considered Ubuntu yet, why do you consider Chrome OS? It's not very hard to teach even the least technically literate person that they just need to click the big multi-colored circle to get to the internet, so it seems weird that abstracting that one step away makes everyone go wild about giving their mom a Chromebook.
[+] [-] ippisl|15 years ago|reply
Deepfreeze basically starts before the os and returns the computer to a frozen state you defined. it's used in libraries and internet cafes and schools , and seem to work pretty well.
This way you get: no support calls + better experience to family(apps, better privacy, known interface) + less risk and more control on the solutions you offer.
[+] [-] wazoox|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] evan_|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mtw|15 years ago|reply
I think anyone will get a laptop which gives them more freedom, for almost the same price
[+] [-] markkanof|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] podperson|15 years ago|reply
Can connect digital camera and process RAW images? Perform simple adjustments?
Useful on airplane?
[+] [-] melling|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rudiger|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eof|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thedangler|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fragmede|15 years ago|reply
Much easier sell - call this an iPad with flash and a keyboard.
[+] [-] wslh|15 years ago|reply
- Use Word/Excel?
[+] [-] kenjackson|15 years ago|reply
So you're paying a 2.5x premium on hardware. Now you say that it lowers maintainance cost, but you can run something like SCCMS and have all machines auto updated with latest virus definitions (as well other things like updated device drivers or even power management) for $70/machine.
The math still just doesn't seem to add up to me.
[+] [-] GHFigs|15 years ago|reply
(The Hacker News-y response is that the i-whatever is terrible and people shouldn't use them, but my point is that a lot of people own them. People who are thinking about recommending Chromebooks to family should keep that in mind.)
Edit: Apparently, the Hacker News-y response is to downvote to oblivion for even mentioning the possibility that people you know might own an extremely popular device. Oh HN, you so silly.
[+] [-] mxavier|15 years ago|reply
The rest are good but lack of Netflix support has definitely prevented me from purchasing a product in the past. This is not necessarily a problem that Google can fix right now, but hopefully it expedites Netflix' efforts to do so.
[+] [-] kenjackson|15 years ago|reply
As I'd mentioned before I can buy an ASUS Eee PC with an AMD C30 processor for $289 and be able to use the browser of my choice, sync my iPod/iPad/iPhone, play WoW, use Skype, hook it up to my TV in the dorm, use MS Office, Visual Studio, emacs, vim, etc...
It just feels like a half-baked implementation. The price point on this needs to be a LOT cheaper. Like $100 or free for a netbook, and make the money up with targeted advertising based on them being locked into Chrome. Otherwise this doesn't seem recommendable.
[+] [-] jonknee|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ShabbyDoo|15 years ago|reply
"hook it up to my TV in the dorm"
The Cr-48 has a VGA output, IIRC. Perhaps future Chromebooks will have HDMI output?
"sync my iPod/iPad/iPhone"
This is an interesting problem for Google. Apple clearly has no incentive to support the platform. The value proposition for a home user is not strong unless a Chromebook can replace a Windows laptop. Besides photo uploading, what other device integration issues ruin the game? My wife would react negatively if she could not use a scanner. Google's cloud printing scheme is an obvious end-run around direct support of printers. Perhaps they will roll-out a similar scanning scheme?
[+] [-] scott_s|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] watty|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cryptoz|15 years ago|reply
It's very very clear that this is not meant for full content creation and gaming and a giant desktop experience. This is meant for the web on the go. If you don't want it, that's fine. But are you seriously saying you can't imagine a single living human being wanting this device? Ken, you're being silly here. Clearly, this is something that fits the needs of a huge number of people.
[+] [-] stanleydrew|15 years ago|reply
But that's exactly what they've done with the monthly hardware/software subscription for businesses and universities. The hardware is free. You just pay $20-$30 permonth.
[+] [-] fragmede|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Dobbs|15 years ago|reply
This would be perfect and would solve my issue of her randomly getting toolbars installed and somehow getting Firefox into a state of uselessness.
[+] [-] fragmede|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] noodle|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hammock|15 years ago|reply
edit: why am i being downvoted? because i don't read tech blogs 24/7? because nowhere on the website does it actually say what a chromebook is?
[+] [-] ianl|15 years ago|reply
I had actually totally forgotten about ChromeOS until the announcement. That being said, I really like it. For people (and there seems to being a growing number of my friends and acquaintances) who use primarily only web apps this is an awesome idea. I am actually considering buying one for my girlfriend when they come out.
Has any pricing information been released?
[+] [-] jonknee|15 years ago|reply
http://www.google.com/chromebook/#chromebooks
[+] [-] far33d|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] r00fus|15 years ago|reply
Contrast with the current CEO's views on support http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/03/mf_larrypage/3/
"...Denise Griffin, the person in charge of Google’s small customer-support team, asked Page for a larger staff. Instead, he told her that the whole idea of customer support was ridiculous. ..."
If Google is truly going to support these devices, they're going to need a paradigm shift from Page's pre-existing "support doesn't scale" attitude... and bring their A-game.
[+] [-] bergie|15 years ago|reply
I think this isn't targeted at the classic computer market, the one that Steve Jobs said is like like trucks. instead, it is an attempt at building a computer market that is closer to general appliances, like TVs or cell phones. Quite similar to iPad's approach, but with more focus on productivity and the web.
Whether it works will depend a lot on marketing, and also on us hackers creating the compelling web ecosystem. I already mostly live just in the browser and many do the same, so maybe the world is ready for this. We'll see
[+] [-] kmod|15 years ago|reply
These new models have dual-core atoms, which will help, but mostly it's just the awful single-core performance that gets you. Even tying emails in gmail was an extremely painful experience; often the characters on the screen would lag significantly behind my tying, and it would take forever to load the different pages.
I don't think anyone is arguing that you can use these things for "real work". I'm going to argue that if you care about your time, you can't even use these things for any of the other stuff they advertise. Unless the new processors are significantly better, I'd say get something else.
[+] [-] ChuckMcM|15 years ago|reply
From a product perspective it does have some nice benefits for the non-techies. I'd love to get my parents something that they could carry around to read email and view pictures on which wasn't waiting for them to drive by some hijacked site. The pitch about 'let your friend use it' was also clearly the other 'big complaint' about the iPad they are addressing. I hope that means the iPad will get a 'guest' mode where you can hand it to someone without them getting access to your cookies/email etc.
[+] [-] ansy|15 years ago|reply
ChromeOS has a lot of potential in institutional settings (much like the electric car) where corner cases don't exist or there can be a small handful of special purpose machines for those cases. IT costs for most organizations would plummet and manageability would go up significantly. I can't imagine how much money and software is used to lock down and secure Windows machines and back up data nine different ways. And subsequently how much is spent recovering or mitigating the loss / theft of sensitive data.
[+] [-] tokenadult|15 years ago|reply
http://www.google.com/chromebook/#features
That's some very important information to put in a footnote at the bottom of the webpage. I'll have to check network availability in my most common locations before deciding whether or not this is useful for me or one of my children.
[+] [-] kloncks|15 years ago|reply
Compare this page with an Apple page trying to sell a product: http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/ or http://www.apple.com/ipod
There's absolutely no comparison. My non-technical friends (heck, even me) are just absolutely more receptive towards that second page.
For all of Google's resources as a gargantuan company...can't they just find some small dash of good design somewhere?
(Not bashing Chrome OS. Looks absolutely wonderful. This is just what I thought when I visited the page...and HN sometimes is for nitpicking :)
[+] [-] ellyagg|15 years ago|reply
The ipad, although superficially similar to a chromebook in some senses, is a completely different product. Its design, both software and hardware, is utterly and completely unlike chromebook. You won't get far extrapolating ipad's success to chromebook.
Microsoft would not be able to sell a version of Word without print capabilities, even though it would be slightly simpler. No one would buy it obviously. I think a lot of technically oriented people have the wrong idea about what constitutes a valuable trade-off between simplicity and power in a product. Like I mentioned, people want well-designed.
Chromebook is an uncanny valley netbook, and it will be a disappointment. Unless I'm wrong. :)
PS - Another thing technically literate folks overestimate due to tribulations of the past is the extent to which viruses continue to be a nuisance.
[+] [-] eggbrain|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wiredfool|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] smackfu|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aj700|15 years ago|reply
How do you get J. Random User to use Linux?
Don't call it Linux. Don't make it look like Linux. And Chrome for Windows synced over to an identical looking ChromeOS means he's escaped Microsoft lockin without even knowing it.
[+] [-] digitalnalogika|15 years ago|reply
I can't find any info at Amazon/BestBuy or official website http://www.google.com/chromebook/chromebooks.html
[+] [-] conradboyle|15 years ago|reply
I wonder what the timeline is on this, and if it will be frustratingly slow vs. a netbook.
[+] [-] dmazin|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MatthewB|15 years ago|reply
It doesn't mention harddrive specs because this is supposed to be a "cloud computer." However, it definitely has a harddrive and I wonder if it is a SSD or regular spinning disc drive.
[+] [-] arihant|15 years ago|reply
I think the cost of the device should be low, most people in 2011 will buy these as an add-on gadget rather than one-sto-shop. I don't know of many add-on gadgets being massively popular while costing more than $250.
I don't think this is a PC, this is an internet window. What google probably chose wrong was the netbook form factor. It's an internet window which looks like a PC, specially the one that Steve Jobs trashed at iPad launch.