They’ve basically found a way to steal what’s left in the account. That’s all this is. There’s probably tens of thousands of accounts that people got locked out of or abandoned with money in and this lets them steal it.
Oh there's more than that. I've done some work in the past in some video games, and used to get paid through a Paypal registered under a pseudonym.
But since now Paypal requires your name, DOB, SSN, banking info, to simply transfer money out, the money is stuck.
I can't use the money to pay for things, because they require you to link banking info DESPITE the fact that I have cash balance. So basically, I had cash that I couldn't take out or use.
Now finally, they are figuring out how to steal that money.
You're right about that, AND PayPal has some sort of aversion to debt obligations.
I remember reading something about how PayPal can't loan out or use the money it is holding for users like a normal bank would- it's a sacrifice to their strategy to avoid being a bank in the USA.
I think that would make having all this money on their books annoying from a business perspective, along with the 'it's not mine' problem
I haven't used my Paypal account in years, and a few months ago they gave $10 USD, not enough to buy something, but enough for me to consider using it again. At the end I didn't, and I guess they'll slowly take it back.
Edit: read the article, it seems they'll take it back in one fell swoop.
Moneybookers (Skrill) introduced a similar dormant account fee a few years ago. I hadn't used my account for a while, and then I needed to use it, so I first logged in to check if my account balance was negative, before I deposited money to it. It was $0, great, I can safely deposit. And what do ya know, as soon as my deposit hit that account, Moneybookers retroactively applied a dormant account fee to my account. They even forged the timestamp for the fee event in my account history to pretend like it was applied several months earlier, when in fact it was applied only after I deposited.
Fairly unethical, though their rationale is probably something like 'hey everyone else is doing it!'
My state has a law where it account goes dormant for a long time, the balance is turned over to the state. The state sees this as revenue, but an individual can submit a claim online and recieve it for no fee, up to 10 years I think.
Yeah I got a letter from the State Comptroller about an old account that paypal locked me out of and wouldn't re-activate (I jumped through all their hoops but they never replied) saying "call this (paypal) number to get your money or they'll give it to us (the state.)"
So I call the number and the person says "check or paypal balance?" and I choose check because of course I've been locked out of the account for years. So she says "Okay, we'll mail you a check."
And that's the last I ever heard about it. I figure they kept it. I could follow up with the comptroller's office, but it's already more than my time is worth, so I just complain about it in public, like this, from time to time.
> for anyone whose account has been dormant for at least a year, but still has some money left in it.
Isn’t it considered a bad idea to ever keep a non-zero balance in a PayPal account? When money comes in, transfer it to a real bank account straightaway.
Well, I'm glad I don't have money left there, because I had two factor authentication turned on, and for some unforseen circumstances, I lost my phone number. PayPal customer service is actually quite hard to contact, because every possibility they give you requires you to log in. I found an email address somewhere, but when I wrote them telling them about my situation, I got an email that if I log in I can check their answer in the internal ticketing system. Then a few days later there was another email asking me about my experience with their support.
I'll never use PayPal again. No way in hell I'll trust a company with handling my money when they make it impossible to contact them.
Similar here. I've been using PayPal to receive our Patreon balance each month and pay various project (sqlitebrowser.org) related experiences.
Just over a week ago, when I tried logging in to PayPal (2FA is not enabled) a new screen appeared saying they'd sent an SMS with code to my phone number, and I need to type it in.
Problem being, the phone number they displayed is not mine. I've never given them my mobile number, as they've always had a little blurb about that saying people have to also give them permission to receive marketing messages. Hell No.
So now I'm locked out of my account. With sufficient screwing around in their help system, there is a phone number you can call:
+44 203 901 7000
Trying to get through to a human being there however has proved an impossible task (after many attempts). From just being hung up on by their system, through to being told they're out of business hours (nope, double checked that), etc.
Looks like in about 51 weeks, they'll start stealing the remaining balance until the account is empty.
Fucking scammers.
PayPal is the main reason I'm not positive on Elon Musk's history... they've been "known bad" for many years, including when he was there. He started his fortune from building a company that knowingly scams people. :(
It's interesting to see that exactly what you wrote (except for the 2FA part) was happening to paypal users 18 years ago. Things haven't changed. Their entire business model is built on nearly complete automation and no human in the loop customer service interaction.
I have the same exact problem! I wanted to delete my account, just in case, but I cannot login.
I haven't used Paypal in over 10 years.
Their "service" is really not needed anymore.
Funny (and infuriating!) to be in the same situation. I have lost access to my account and the money in it, because they have the wrong phone number on file. In their support forum, there are pages of people with the same issue - they're locked out of their account, with seemingly no way to contact anyone at PayPal to resolve it.
I hope they get sued for this practice of abandoning their customers, cutting off contact, and keeping the money.
The cache-less society is no different, it's just the bandits that has changed. And it's for protecting the banks money, not your money. Paypal has always been on the consumer side though.
Not trying to make an excuse for all the horror stories, just some advice: Make sure you have backups/exports of the 2:nd factor keys so they can be imported when lost.
For example print your password and store it on one location, for example in a safe, then print the 2nd factor key/export (QR code, or backup codes) and put it in another safe/location. Or make several copies and store on many safe locations. And don't forget to TEST YOUR BACKUPS on regular intervals to make sure they work when that day comes.
What's up with the few monopolies left over tightening the screws to squeeze every penny out of their "customers"? YouTube playing ads every two minutes, RedHat stopping CentOS, AMZN dumping parcels somewhere in your neighborhood so they can claim to have delivered, now PayPal "introducing" (as if they could unilaterally) fees. To those always apologizing just how much of a suck the web has become: it's not like we didn't tell you all the time.
More worrying is the outright nerviness - as if those companies know there are no alternatives left, or know something about our grim economical outlook.
Nah, it's just a toxic combination of MBA's (?) being sociopaths to have the ideas + the companies involved having enough lawyers to shield them from any real harm.
Seems more like they're trying to get abandoned accounts down to $0 in their wallets so they can cancel all the abandoned accounts wasting space on their server than actually trying to charge people a fee for something.
This isn't about "wasting space on their server", it's about confiscating money left in those accounts. It's illegal for them to just take it, because it's not theirs.
There is a way to regain access to your Paypal account.
I used this when I forgot to change the 2fa phone number before they started enforcing it, thus leaving me no way to log in.
Use a browser / computer you haven't ever used for Paypal.
Incognito/Private browsing mode will probably be sufficient.
Go to the normal Paypal login.
Try to reset your password via "forgot my password".
Follow the instructions; security code etc.
Set a new password and confirm it.
Paypal will now log you in.
Isn't this a consequence of attempting to use PayPal as a bank account, something you shouldn't do in the first place? (Assuming they're not doing nefarious things).
Doesn't the rogue, excess money add a cost to their accounting at the end of the year, similar to how companies don't like letting employees keep their vacation days after so long, because they have to keep the functional equivalent of that much money in savings, in case the employee leaves and they want to cash it all out?
This seems pretty reasonable, to me, barring a couple edge cases that should have a vanishingly small percentage and perhaps could be argued for as special cases (people in jail, for example).
Does Paypal have any sort of auto-deducting money out of PayPal and into a normal bank?
Making sure that discussion will not heat without checking the content:
> PayPal is to introduce a £9 “inactivity” fee for anyone whose account has been dormant for at least a year, but still has some money left in it.
So it applies to money that's left on account. Once the balance is 0, there is not extra cost.
It's not that I'm happy in particular, as I have account there also, and I had to transfer remaining money. I believe there is more cases like mine, that has PayPay to pay on some portals that accepts only that payment method, and we're not willing to share credit card information.
But sure, most banks have fees like that, and typically don't for a few years just to attract the broke people that were looking for an account with no fees. Then they turn them on.
> PayPal is to introduce a £9 “inactivity” fee for anyone whose account has been dormant for at least a year, but still has some money left in it.
PayPal come on, first you keep, people's money hostage and now you even going to charge £9 fee? I can't get my money out because you have frozen it and I can't talk to a human being. Even you ignored my letters from my lawyer.
Google Pay and Apple Pay can surely substitute Pay Pal quickly. Alipay and WeChat Pay in Asian regions. Other, less famous alternatives as well. All of them are more consumer-friendly than PayPal itself. So far, only adoption from the merchants is lacking.
Do you have any details on how those others are more consumer-friendly than paypal?
For buyers/consumers, PayPal is relatively friendly. Getting back money from an uncooperative merchant is pretty simple and hassle-free, just need a few days wait for the response time.
Reminds me of my experience with Skrill (Moneybookers).
Skrill charged me €50/month inactivity fee (€600/year), after 6 months of inactivity, without notifying about changing of terms and conditions or any warning that my account is inactive.
The only email they sent was that they were introducing a
change to the terms and conditions about charging €1/month after 12 months.
PayPal's €10/year inactivity fee after 12 months is reasonable, especially if they warn users in advance. However, this is one of their "boiling-the-frog" tactics, and I'm sure these fees will significantly increase in the future.
It’s fascinating to me how a company that seems to be so universally despised by everyone manages to survive. Luckily for me I have always been spoiled with options, so I almost never had to deal with them.
I wonder if a similar fee would even be allowable in the US. It would seem to run counter to many states' escheatment laws (at least in my completely anecdotal understanding).
Does anyone know if this is only in the UK (since the report is by The Guardian and the fee is mentioned in GBP) or is it introduced in other countries too (if so, which ones)?
[+] [-] qz2|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Thorncorona|5 years ago|reply
But since now Paypal requires your name, DOB, SSN, banking info, to simply transfer money out, the money is stuck.
I can't use the money to pay for things, because they require you to link banking info DESPITE the fact that I have cash balance. So basically, I had cash that I couldn't take out or use.
Now finally, they are figuring out how to steal that money.
[+] [-] jandrese|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] droopyEyelids|5 years ago|reply
I remember reading something about how PayPal can't loan out or use the money it is holding for users like a normal bank would- it's a sacrifice to their strategy to avoid being a bank in the USA.
I think that would make having all this money on their books annoying from a business perspective, along with the 'it's not mine' problem
[+] [-] ASalazarMX|5 years ago|reply
Edit: read the article, it seems they'll take it back in one fell swoop.
[+] [-] seibelj|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] baobabKoodaa|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] exabrial|5 years ago|reply
My state has a law where it account goes dormant for a long time, the balance is turned over to the state. The state sees this as revenue, but an individual can submit a claim online and recieve it for no fee, up to 10 years I think.
[+] [-] tauwauwau|5 years ago|reply
https://www.npr.org/transcripts/799345159
[+] [-] colejohnson66|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] carapace|5 years ago|reply
Yeah I got a letter from the State Comptroller about an old account that paypal locked me out of and wouldn't re-activate (I jumped through all their hoops but they never replied) saying "call this (paypal) number to get your money or they'll give it to us (the state.)"
So I call the number and the person says "check or paypal balance?" and I choose check because of course I've been locked out of the account for years. So she says "Okay, we'll mail you a check."
And that's the last I ever heard about it. I figure they kept it. I could follow up with the comptroller's office, but it's already more than my time is worth, so I just complain about it in public, like this, from time to time.
[+] [-] pansa2|5 years ago|reply
Isn’t it considered a bad idea to ever keep a non-zero balance in a PayPal account? When money comes in, transfer it to a real bank account straightaway.
[+] [-] bdibs|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] katsura|5 years ago|reply
I'll never use PayPal again. No way in hell I'll trust a company with handling my money when they make it impossible to contact them.
[+] [-] justinclift|5 years ago|reply
Just over a week ago, when I tried logging in to PayPal (2FA is not enabled) a new screen appeared saying they'd sent an SMS with code to my phone number, and I need to type it in.
Problem being, the phone number they displayed is not mine. I've never given them my mobile number, as they've always had a little blurb about that saying people have to also give them permission to receive marketing messages. Hell No.
So now I'm locked out of my account. With sufficient screwing around in their help system, there is a phone number you can call:
Trying to get through to a human being there however has proved an impossible task (after many attempts). From just being hung up on by their system, through to being told they're out of business hours (nope, double checked that), etc.Looks like in about 51 weeks, they'll start stealing the remaining balance until the account is empty.
Fucking scammers.
PayPal is the main reason I'm not positive on Elon Musk's history... they've been "known bad" for many years, including when he was there. He started his fortune from building a company that knowingly scams people. :(
[+] [-] walrus01|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lumberjack|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cute_boi|5 years ago|reply
From that day i haven't used any 2fa and just use password manager with additional backup.
[+] [-] lioeters|5 years ago|reply
Funny (and infuriating!) to be in the same situation. I have lost access to my account and the money in it, because they have the wrong phone number on file. In their support forum, there are pages of people with the same issue - they're locked out of their account, with seemingly no way to contact anyone at PayPal to resolve it.
I hope they get sued for this practice of abandoning their customers, cutting off contact, and keeping the money.
[+] [-] z3t4|5 years ago|reply
Not trying to make an excuse for all the horror stories, just some advice: Make sure you have backups/exports of the 2:nd factor keys so they can be imported when lost. For example print your password and store it on one location, for example in a safe, then print the 2nd factor key/export (QR code, or backup codes) and put it in another safe/location. Or make several copies and store on many safe locations. And don't forget to TEST YOUR BACKUPS on regular intervals to make sure they work when that day comes.
[+] [-] tannhaeuser|5 years ago|reply
More worrying is the outright nerviness - as if those companies know there are no alternatives left, or know something about our grim economical outlook.
[+] [-] justinclift|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ThisIsMeEEE|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sneak|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nxtbl|5 years ago|reply
Use a browser / computer you haven't ever used for Paypal. Incognito/Private browsing mode will probably be sufficient.
Go to the normal Paypal login. Try to reset your password via "forgot my password". Follow the instructions; security code etc. Set a new password and confirm it. Paypal will now log you in.
[+] [-] justinclift|5 years ago|reply
Except, at least in my case, the security code gets sent to some phone number that's not mine. So, that's not going to help. ;)
[+] [-] t-writescode|5 years ago|reply
Doesn't the rogue, excess money add a cost to their accounting at the end of the year, similar to how companies don't like letting employees keep their vacation days after so long, because they have to keep the functional equivalent of that much money in savings, in case the employee leaves and they want to cash it all out?
This seems pretty reasonable, to me, barring a couple edge cases that should have a vanishingly small percentage and perhaps could be argued for as special cases (people in jail, for example).
Does Paypal have any sort of auto-deducting money out of PayPal and into a normal bank?
[+] [-] trzeci|5 years ago|reply
> PayPal is to introduce a £9 “inactivity” fee for anyone whose account has been dormant for at least a year, but still has some money left in it.
So it applies to money that's left on account. Once the balance is 0, there is not extra cost.
It's not that I'm happy in particular, as I have account there also, and I had to transfer remaining money. I believe there is more cases like mine, that has PayPay to pay on some portals that accepts only that payment method, and we're not willing to share credit card information.
[+] [-] vmception|5 years ago|reply
But sure, most banks have fees like that, and typically don't for a few years just to attract the broke people that were looking for an account with no fees. Then they turn them on.
[+] [-] unknown|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] wdb|5 years ago|reply
PayPal come on, first you keep, people's money hostage and now you even going to charge £9 fee? I can't get my money out because you have frozen it and I can't talk to a human being. Even you ignored my letters from my lawyer.
[+] [-] justinclift|5 years ago|reply
Isn't the next stage, to actually take legal action?
[+] [-] xvilka|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] corty|5 years ago|reply
For buyers/consumers, PayPal is relatively friendly. Getting back money from an uncooperative merchant is pretty simple and hassle-free, just need a few days wait for the response time.
[+] [-] shaicoleman|5 years ago|reply
Skrill charged me €50/month inactivity fee (€600/year), after 6 months of inactivity, without notifying about changing of terms and conditions or any warning that my account is inactive.
The only email they sent was that they were introducing a change to the terms and conditions about charging €1/month after 12 months.
PayPal's €10/year inactivity fee after 12 months is reasonable, especially if they warn users in advance. However, this is one of their "boiling-the-frog" tactics, and I'm sure these fees will significantly increase in the future.
[+] [-] hnarn|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lxgr|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] AnonC|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] amadeuspagel|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] macjohnmcc|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|5 years ago|reply
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