Any thought on imalanced microbiome being a second order effect rather than a cause? I’d guess continued stress responses from the nervous system could cause chronic gut problems
Every time a scientific article "x may cause y" is posted, there are a couple dozen "correlation does not equal causation" retorts, as if the researchers involved were unaware of this exceedingly basic and elementary principle.
It's such a waste of comment - an intellectual platitude. Can you point specifically to how this research is flawed, or how alternative research offers a better explanation?
It seems that microbiome research is always defended here. Perhaps it is scientific, but be aware that a multi billion dollar industry depends on "improving" the microbiome.
I wouldn't necessarily equivocate all of that research. Very little of it, even in the realm of dietary impact, has to do with probiotics, and the research that does focus on probiotics largely doesn't suggest a lasting impact on the microbiome.
Notwithstanding that there may be health benefits to probiotic consumption.
Indeed, the paper in question here was sponsored by grants to the APC Microbiome Institute. Not that that means the work isn't solid, but it's certainly something to bear in mind while reading.
Would you please stop posting unsubstantive comments to HN? You've done it a lot, unfortunately, and we're trying for something different here.
If you've read the paper and found a reason to criticize the work for not taking this obvious objection into account, your comment should say specifically what that reason is. If not, then "Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Threads are sensitive to initial conditions, so it's particularly important not to post crap comments when a thread is new. Since it takes time for more thoughtful comments to start appearing, conscious restraint is needed here.
> These food groups, which are an important part of the Mediteranean diet, are associated with an increased abundance of bacteria with anti-inflammatory properties. That well-studied diet is known not only to affect the gut microbiome by increasing the abundance of microbes that produce short-chain fatty acids (SCFAs), but also to shorten episodes of depression.
I agree, and since sibling comments request more specific criticism here goes.
Let's look at section "Gut Microbiome Can Transfer Depression". They cite two animal studies. Two. Animal. One of them find their sucrose preference changes. This is dietary preference change. That bacteria changes dietary preferences is well established and we don't need to invoke depression to explain it. What about the other? "The forced swim test led to conflicting outcomes; the study in mice found an increased immobility time, associated with depressive-like behavior, whereas the rat study found no difference." Flimsy, flimsy, flimsy.
Until stronger evidence merge, I agree the most likely explanation is that depressed people eat junk food to comfort themselves, or because they are too depressed to give a shit what they do to their bodies.
Is your comment adding an informed opinion on this topic? Or are you perhaps smart in one area and think you can just wing an opinion on this topic?
I live with someone with clinical depression. One of the most maddening things for her is the astounding number of people who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about offering "helpful" opinions. No, they aren't helpful, they are hurtful.
When someone trivializes the problem such as you have, it adds the body of disinformation on the topic that seeps into mainstream opinion: that depressives have done something to deserve what they are suffering, or that there is some simple solution that they just too stupid or unwilling to do that will fix things, or that they have some perverse desire to remain depressed, or they lack the character to "buck up" and put their depression behind them.
[+] [-] taurath|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jcoq|5 years ago|reply
It's such a waste of comment - an intellectual platitude. Can you point specifically to how this research is flawed, or how alternative research offers a better explanation?
[+] [-] kelsolaar|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xll64|5 years ago|reply
Here's an ad in nature.com:
https://www.nature.com/articles/d42473-019-00336-9
[+] [-] slothtrop|5 years ago|reply
Notwithstanding that there may be health benefits to probiotic consumption.
[+] [-] maroonblazer|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] im3w1l|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] flybrand|5 years ago|reply
I bring up Celiac because 1/ I have it, and 2/ there is very little medical doubt / uncertainty / controversy about the disease.
[+] [-] alacombe|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Ovah|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ohiovr|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tus88|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] dang|5 years ago|reply
If you've read the paper and found a reason to criticize the work for not taking this obvious objection into account, your comment should say specifically what that reason is. If not, then "Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Threads are sensitive to initial conditions, so it's particularly important not to post crap comments when a thread is new. Since it takes time for more thoughtful comments to start appearing, conscious restraint is needed here.
[+] [-] dgb23|5 years ago|reply
> These food groups, which are an important part of the Mediteranean diet, are associated with an increased abundance of bacteria with anti-inflammatory properties. That well-studied diet is known not only to affect the gut microbiome by increasing the abundance of microbes that produce short-chain fatty acids (SCFAs), but also to shorten episodes of depression.
[+] [-] im3w1l|5 years ago|reply
Let's look at section "Gut Microbiome Can Transfer Depression". They cite two animal studies. Two. Animal. One of them find their sucrose preference changes. This is dietary preference change. That bacteria changes dietary preferences is well established and we don't need to invoke depression to explain it. What about the other? "The forced swim test led to conflicting outcomes; the study in mice found an increased immobility time, associated with depressive-like behavior, whereas the rat study found no difference." Flimsy, flimsy, flimsy.
Until stronger evidence merge, I agree the most likely explanation is that depressed people eat junk food to comfort themselves, or because they are too depressed to give a shit what they do to their bodies.
[+] [-] m3kw9|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tasty_freeze|5 years ago|reply
I live with someone with clinical depression. One of the most maddening things for her is the astounding number of people who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about offering "helpful" opinions. No, they aren't helpful, they are hurtful.
When someone trivializes the problem such as you have, it adds the body of disinformation on the topic that seeps into mainstream opinion: that depressives have done something to deserve what they are suffering, or that there is some simple solution that they just too stupid or unwilling to do that will fix things, or that they have some perverse desire to remain depressed, or they lack the character to "buck up" and put their depression behind them.
[+] [-] pazimzadeh|5 years ago|reply