Something I highly recommend avoiding (though it may look tempting) is the TB16 thunderbolt dock from dell.
There is something really screwy with the USB controller in that device, the ETH is on the USB hub and corrupts Ethernet frames, under Linux you can force disable hardware offloaded CRC checksumming as a workaround, but still the USB devices that are directly connected can just stop functioning.
It also has the annoying quirk that it enumerates the display ports differently each time, which means your operating system has almost no chance of redrawing your desktop when you plug it back in.
Looks good on the spec sheet though, and will probably be flooding the used market as companies try to offload them. I tried 5 different ones from different batches, they all had the same characteristics.
Didn’t try the WD19 yet, but I hope that’s better.
I can echo this - our company runs off dell machines and our laptops came with these docks.
Despite (in happier times) having to leave my desk frequently for meetings, with my laptop, I'd rather faff about with plugging and unplugging multiple cables than have to deal with the frustration of peripherals randomly losing connection while you're in the middle of working.
I support a LOT of Thunderbolt docks for clients in my IT work and have also had experience with a lot of them personally.
My feedback is, almost all of these docks really suck. Spend the money and get a CalDigit. You won't regret it. It's the only one I've found that reliably performs the way a dock should.
I have the WD19 and I have to say despite it's being a fucking computer on its own it works astonishingly well under Linux, especially compared to the docking stations I had before. Feels like they really cared about their Linux support. Tested with both my XPS 9310 and my Precision 7530.
Recently wasted a morning at the office swapping all variants of Dell thunderbolt and USB-c docks, kept getting weird USB errors. Most frustrating was I couldn't reproduce the error at the helpdesk with same dock. The weirdest thing was usb peripherals were working fine, but somehow Windows kept giving me a non suppressable popup every minute ad infinitum. I don't see the point of docking stations anymore now you can get 49" screens with USB-c connectors. No reason to put a docking station in between or dual screen setups anymore
I have this dock.. I basically just use it for the power and DisplayPort to a 4k60 display... since USB is awful on it I have a USB hub I plug in to the notebook also...
So I guess calling that thing a “dock” is generous
> the ETH is on the USB hub and corrupts Ethernet frame
I have a USB-C Novoo thingy (PD passthrough, HDMI, 3x USB-A, Ethernet) that might do something like that. If I plug Ethernet into my home router it ends up killing all other ethernet links on this router in about two minutes. I unplug it and things come back to life in under a second.
The thing also has a habit to produce EM interference that makes WiFi useless. Would you believe, running a ping and wrapping the device's cord in tin foil back and forth and you can see the packet stop dropping and start again.
I've used the WD19. I haven't experimented with Linux, but it's a pretty screwy device. A firmware update meant that it stopped playing "which device is going to work today" lucky dip, but it is always a festival of that Windows "hey, something interesting happened at a hardware level" noise as it takes 10 seconds and 3-4 redraws of the whole screen to finally figure out where all the displays are.
Yup, we had a good venting session at our Dell rep about this issue last year.
They were very aware of the issues, very apologetic and suggested we try some sorta displaylink garbage in the meantime. We did, and then as soon as the WD19 came out we tested that, and it's been night and day.
They still require custom drivers but 99% of issues disappeared. I had one issue with a laptop that likely had a faulty tb module and was failing back to usb 3.1 but no other complaints from anyone.
Well aside from the lack of usb ports on the thing... the Eport had like 8 usbs, the wd16 had 5 and now we're down to 3 on the wd19, that'd be fine if the laptops didn't keep dropping usb-a's also, most of the 7000 line only has 2 now. I refuse to get a usb dock to plug into the wd19 just for usb, that's insane and I'm not a crazy person.
Tried loads of TB docks (as well as USB3 ones) and gave up. They all have annoying quirks. I finally settled with a Razer Core Chroma, with Ethernet and USB. My MBP16 is finally silent with external displays, and the offloading really helps during video calls.
Hold on! Is this why ethernet is exhibiting intermittent and impossible to diagnose behavior for me at work, and only for me?! Do you have some more information?
Also avoid the HP Thunderbolt Dock - was a steaming pile that is!
On 2 identical laptops (fresh builds), 1 of them BSODs, the other works sometimes, but BSODs at random when resuming from sleep or plugging in devices.
They've releases various versions of the firmware, along with various versions of various drivers that need to be installed on the laptop. Only some random variations of these work, and only on some devices, and only some of the time. Total garbage.
The TB16 works alright after updating it to the newest firmware, but still has it's quirks. For example, my mouse lags / cuts out briefly, now and then (I plug it in direct).
The TB19 I use when working from home appears to have little to no issues (none that I can think of right now).
I had tons of problems with my TB16 and one prior Dell dock but the WD19 has been working flawlessly all year. I have used it with my XPS 7550 and 7590 and had no problems. I also have had good experience using it with a MacBook Pro 15.
That's a bummer to hear; I have the WD15 dock through work and it's been excellent; I have a bunch of complaints about the XPS itself (power management, for example), but that dock has been great.
I was really impressed with the Dell WD19TB dock I was issued from work for COVID. I had never used a dock before, but having all my external displays (I used 2 DP, but I think it could handle 3 at once if using HDMI too), Ethernet, all the USB, and charging all through one port was amazing.
The tall thin heatsink at the edge of the motherboard is cooling part of the VRM. The VRM or Voltage Regulator Module is responsible for converting the 12V input down to 1.3V or so for the CPU. Under that heatsink there are 2 of the 8 phases for CPU Vcore and 2 phases for Vsoc. It would be pretty safe to remove that heatsink, even in a passive case because:
- Vsoc draws very little power, especially with no iGPU.
- The VRM is designed to survive providing 200A to a 16 core 3950X, 50A to a 2600 is very easy by comparison. Maybe 6W of heat split among the 8 phases so <2W of heat on these 2 phases.
- The MOSFETs will happily run all day at up to 125C.
- The MOSFETs are smart power stages which communicate their temperature to the controller, and have many built-in protections, so there's extremely little risk of damage. The controller probably shares load amongst the phases based on temperature but I can't find a datasheet to confirm.
Yup, most MOSFETs will have no trouble running at 125C! The power supplies in some of our products occasionally run at 180C, without heat-sinking. But these aren't designed to last as long as a motherboard VRM.
In general cooler is better. At high temps you'll see temperature related aging accelerate (e.g. solder, PCB substrate, electromigration in the parts), but you'd probably be okay. The PC would become obsolete way before the VRM fails. The worst case I can imagine is the MOSFETs and inductors heat up, bringing the local temperature up to a point where the controller IC enters over-temperature shutdown, but it's unlikely.
Personally, if the current heatsink is too big I would just find smaller ones and attach them. I don't really have a good reason, I just like parts running cool :)
Thank you so much for the explanation. How do you know all that? I am interested in learning about motherboard design and wonder if there are books you would recommend about it.
Thunderbolt 3 really is amazing. Im using a OWC Thunderbolt Dock to connect my MacBook to: an eGPU thats driving a 5K monitor, a 1TB TB3 SSD, and 24/96 USB audio to my stereo. All over one cable.
BTW if your using TB3 as your main connection to your laptop I highly recommend a magnetic TB3 adapter. This has been working great in my setup for over a year and makes docking/undocking a snap.
Another way to "silence" a PC is to put it in another room. Mine is across the wall - with just the HDMI and USB cables coming through a small wall hole (PVC pipe to make the edges smooth). I highly recommend it.
For anyone in interested in building a silent PC, I have some simple advice: use a Noctua CPU heatsink and Noctua case fans. They are whisper-quiet, and I spent < $100 for all the fans in my system. They are the most premium-feeling computer product I have ever used; the CPU heatsink was very heavy and solid, and came with all the tools needed for installation including a screwdriver and thermal paste. Highly recommend, 10/10.
The author includes a diagram that shows his PC and his laptop plugged in via Thunderbolt 3 to the CalDigit TS3+ dock, and no direct connection to the monitor. Looking at the dock's product page[1], I don't see how this can have two hosts connected; did I miss something in this article?
No, you didn't miss anything. I'm assuming that he just unplugs the cable from one when he wants to use the other. As far as I know there aren't any sort of KVM thunderbolt 3 hubs in existence.
I can confirm that either of the thunderbolt ports on the back of that dock can connect to a host machine. With mine, I connect a modern thunderbolt-3 mac and and older mac one with thunderbolt 2. I can leave both cords plugged into the dock all the time and just use the proper cable for the computer I'm using and it just works.
My gaming rig is silent for 95% of operations, and a low hum at full tilt. Massive heatsinks give me the ability to turn off all fans and still stay at safe temps for anything that isn't a taxing game like Red Dead 2. I also 3D printed a new GPU shroud in high temp PLA that allowed me to place some Noctua fans softly mounted on the stock heatsink (which was already massive).
The case itself is a Quiet PC case. Rock solid cases if you want one case to last you forever, even if you don't want the quietness they are just very stout.
I usually overclock my PC once the parts stop being enough but I love the silence so much that I will probably just buy better parts this time around, rather than require over the top potentially loud cooling.
There's something I don't understand: does switching between laptop and pc with that hub require unplugging one usb c cable from the back of the hub and plugging the other one in?
I'm very interested in a similar setup. So far I don't think I've figured out an elegant solution.
My current solution is to have both devices plugged into the monitor, and use a usb hub to share the peripherals, manually moving the cable to the hub between devices.
Now I can plug my laptop into my dock, and just press a button to switch all my usb devices between machines.
It's actually a really nice workflow, nice enough that sometimes I'll leave the desktop up on my second monitor playing music or videos when I'm doing heavy processing on my work laptop, and just occasionally switch my mouse/keyboard between them with a button press.
I got very excited by his diagram, which seemed to imply that there exists a TB3 dock that's also a KVM. This is a product that needs to exist and I would pay a lot of money for it (as long as it worked well - there seem to be a lot of janky TB3 docks already even without the challenges of KVM).
If I had a slightly less wacky WD19 that had 2 or 4 input ports it would enormously simplify my current and future setups.
I've had good luck with an IOGear DisplayPort KVM. I would also like the two items merged. As it stands, I'm already in the process of making a new desk-top (like the wood on top of the legs, not like another computer), and I plan to give these items their own space on the underside of the desk top, either on shelves or with some other mounting mechanism.
not exactly what you're asking, but i've used a dell monitor that acted as a kvm switch. macbook was connected via usb-c, and dell laptop was connected via HDMI. Though you could also use displayport. Monitor seemlessly switched my magic trackpad/keyboard input between the mac and pc.
My LG Ultrawide 5k2k monitor has TB3 and two USB3.0 ports hub on the back. I can change source for the hub from TB3 to USB B input in the back. TB3 goes to my mac. My linux workstation is connected to the displayport and usb b.
To switch between machines, I just change display and usb hub source. I do this from monitor menu right now, but should be scriptable with dpcc , I recently discovered.
Took me a while to find out that just because my Thinkpad Notebook supports DisplayPort 1.2 and has Thunderbolt, it does not mean I can actually use the specified resolutions with the Thinkpad USB-C Dock Gen 2.
I don't know if you have every used 30Hz with a mouse, but it sucks. Especially when you are used to 120Hz... Now I am looking for a Dock that actually supports 4k60Hz with DisplayPort 1.2.
I've tried several docks and cables with no success until I've found this article: https://www.bigmessowires.com/2019/05/19/explaining-4k-60hz-... The recommended CableMatters dock solved the 4k60Hz issue with USB2.0 pheripherals connected (mouse, kb).
Generally usb-c docks can do 4k@30 but to get 60 you need a (any) thunderbolt dock. The TB port on the laptop can do 60 but you need a TB dock and not a USBC dock otherwise that would be the bottleneck. However if you just need video and not extra USB ports / Ethernet / etc., then a USB-C to DP adapter can do 60fps since it doesn't need to reserve bandwidth for the other stuff.
This is great! I’ve been eyeing the same motherboard to get a similar setup but I do have a GPU. Wouldn’t that break the setup? I could only connect peripherals to the dock and handle the monitors separately. I believe that would end the one cable dream :(
I have the Plugable TBT3-UDZ dock for my MacBook Pro, and I have to say, I'm pretty happy with it. It supports 2 displays, has a bunch of ports, and has its own power supply (i.e. my power brick can stay in my laptop bag). Construction quality is nice as well. Only "problem" I've had with it is finding the correct adapters, as I'm using it with DVI & VGA displays (it needs "active" adapters for this).
I have finally achieved the "dream" of only having a single cable to connect / disconnect when I want to bring my laptop with me.
[+] [-] dijit|5 years ago|reply
There is something really screwy with the USB controller in that device, the ETH is on the USB hub and corrupts Ethernet frames, under Linux you can force disable hardware offloaded CRC checksumming as a workaround, but still the USB devices that are directly connected can just stop functioning.
It also has the annoying quirk that it enumerates the display ports differently each time, which means your operating system has almost no chance of redrawing your desktop when you plug it back in.
Looks good on the spec sheet though, and will probably be flooding the used market as companies try to offload them. I tried 5 different ones from different batches, they all had the same characteristics.
Didn’t try the WD19 yet, but I hope that’s better.
[+] [-] test1235|5 years ago|reply
Despite (in happier times) having to leave my desk frequently for meetings, with my laptop, I'd rather faff about with plugging and unplugging multiple cables than have to deal with the frustration of peripherals randomly losing connection while you're in the middle of working.
[+] [-] Bud|5 years ago|reply
My feedback is, almost all of these docks really suck. Spend the money and get a CalDigit. You won't regret it. It's the only one I've found that reliably performs the way a dock should.
[+] [-] bionade24|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tda|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] other_herbert|5 years ago|reply
So I guess calling that thing a “dock” is generous
[+] [-] lloeki|5 years ago|reply
I have a USB-C Novoo thingy (PD passthrough, HDMI, 3x USB-A, Ethernet) that might do something like that. If I plug Ethernet into my home router it ends up killing all other ethernet links on this router in about two minutes. I unplug it and things come back to life in under a second.
The thing also has a habit to produce EM interference that makes WiFi useless. Would you believe, running a ping and wrapping the device's cord in tin foil back and forth and you can see the packet stop dropping and start again.
Crazy.
[+] [-] glangdale|5 years ago|reply
It's workable on PC and Mac, but I don't love it.
[+] [-] vxNsr|5 years ago|reply
They were very aware of the issues, very apologetic and suggested we try some sorta displaylink garbage in the meantime. We did, and then as soon as the WD19 came out we tested that, and it's been night and day.
They still require custom drivers but 99% of issues disappeared. I had one issue with a laptop that likely had a faulty tb module and was failing back to usb 3.1 but no other complaints from anyone.
Well aside from the lack of usb ports on the thing... the Eport had like 8 usbs, the wd16 had 5 and now we're down to 3 on the wd19, that'd be fine if the laptops didn't keep dropping usb-a's also, most of the 7000 line only has 2 now. I refuse to get a usb dock to plug into the wd19 just for usb, that's insane and I'm not a crazy person.
[+] [-] OakNinja|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gspr|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] GordonS|5 years ago|reply
On 2 identical laptops (fresh builds), 1 of them BSODs, the other works sometimes, but BSODs at random when resuming from sleep or plugging in devices.
They've releases various versions of the firmware, along with various versions of various drivers that need to be installed on the laptop. Only some random variations of these work, and only on some devices, and only some of the time. Total garbage.
[+] [-] MrMid|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] NwtnsMthd|5 years ago|reply
The TB16 works alright after updating it to the newest firmware, but still has it's quirks. For example, my mouse lags / cuts out briefly, now and then (I plug it in direct).
The TB19 I use when working from home appears to have little to no issues (none that I can think of right now).
[+] [-] arnmac|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mikepurvis|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 908B64B197|5 years ago|reply
It Just Works with a dock, period. They made an USB-C adapter if you want to try out the buggy Thunderbolt/USB-C ecosystem.
[+] [-] 0xTJ|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dghughes|5 years ago|reply
The connector is a two inch lever just waiting for something to break it off.
[+] [-] v4nd0ck|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mastax|5 years ago|reply
- Vsoc draws very little power, especially with no iGPU.
- The VRM is designed to survive providing 200A to a 16 core 3950X, 50A to a 2600 is very easy by comparison. Maybe 6W of heat split among the 8 phases so <2W of heat on these 2 phases.
- The MOSFETs will happily run all day at up to 125C.
- The MOSFETs are smart power stages which communicate their temperature to the controller, and have many built-in protections, so there's extremely little risk of damage. The controller probably shares load amongst the phases based on temperature but I can't find a datasheet to confirm.
Ref: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXwjwxb39EA
[+] [-] NwtnsMthd|5 years ago|reply
In general cooler is better. At high temps you'll see temperature related aging accelerate (e.g. solder, PCB substrate, electromigration in the parts), but you'd probably be okay. The PC would become obsolete way before the VRM fails. The worst case I can imagine is the MOSFETs and inductors heat up, bringing the local temperature up to a point where the controller IC enters over-temperature shutdown, but it's unlikely.
Personally, if the current heatsink is too big I would just find smaller ones and attach them. I don't really have a good reason, I just like parts running cool :)
[+] [-] fabiensanglard|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gehwartzen|5 years ago|reply
BTW if your using TB3 as your main connection to your laptop I highly recommend a magnetic TB3 adapter. This has been working great in my setup for over a year and makes docking/undocking a snap.
https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Thunderbolt3-Connector-Trans...
[+] [-] jrrrr|5 years ago|reply
I do something similar to the post's two-cable configuration:
- Mac to Caldigit TB dock to two displays. - PC to one of the displays - Keyboard and mouse to a USB switch, which connects to the PC and the TB dock
It's kind of a pain to manually flip both the USB switch and the monitor's input.
This app can theoretically help by programmatically toggling the display's input when particular USB devices are dis/connected:
https://github.com/haimgel/display-switch
.. but compatibility is spotty, relying on a rarely-used hardware feature in the display that seems to not be reliably implemented ("DDC/CI").
[+] [-] yboris|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] neogodless|5 years ago|reply
https://fabiensanglard.net/the_beautiful_machine/index.html
Here's the motherboard mentioned in the current article:
https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X570%20Phantom%20Gaming-ITXTB3...
> 1 Thunderbolt™ 3 Type-C
[+] [-] gautamcgoel|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cbm-vic-20|5 years ago|reply
[1] https://www.caldigit.com/ts3-plus/
[+] [-] least|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] andjd|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ehnto|5 years ago|reply
The case itself is a Quiet PC case. Rock solid cases if you want one case to last you forever, even if you don't want the quietness they are just very stout.
I usually overclock my PC once the parts stop being enough but I love the silence so much that I will probably just buy better parts this time around, rather than require over the top potentially loud cooling.
[+] [-] bootlooped|5 years ago|reply
I'm very interested in a similar setup. So far I don't think I've figured out an elegant solution.
My current solution is to have both devices plugged into the monitor, and use a usb hub to share the peripherals, manually moving the cable to the hub between devices.
[+] [-] horsawlarway|5 years ago|reply
Here's the exact model I ended up getting (I'm not affiliated in any way) https://www.amazon.com/UGREEN-Selector-Computers-Peripheral-...
Now I can plug my laptop into my dock, and just press a button to switch all my usb devices between machines.
It's actually a really nice workflow, nice enough that sometimes I'll leave the desktop up on my second monitor playing music or videos when I'm doing heavy processing on my work laptop, and just occasionally switch my mouse/keyboard between them with a button press.
[+] [-] xondono|5 years ago|reply
When I want to switch, I just change the input on the monitor and press the button behind it.
It’s not the 1-click solution that I wanted, but it’s close enough and cheap.
Switching USB ports is cheap, switching video signals isn’t.
[+] [-] otterpro|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sigzero|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] glangdale|5 years ago|reply
If I had a slightly less wacky WD19 that had 2 or 4 input ports it would enormously simplify my current and future setups.
[+] [-] greggyb|5 years ago|reply
You can see the major layout here (just listing the connectivity): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25522719
[+] [-] MAGZine|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] shadykiller|5 years ago|reply
To switch between machines, I just change display and usb hub source. I do this from monitor menu right now, but should be scriptable with dpcc , I recently discovered.
[+] [-] bluedino|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] arendtio|5 years ago|reply
For reference, DisplayPort 1.2 supports 4k60Hz according to Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort#Refresh_frequency_...
But when I look into the User Guide of the ThinkPad USB-C Dock Gen 2, the max resolution for DisplayPort 1.2 is 4k30Hz (Page 7): https://download.lenovo.com/consumer/options/thinkpad_usb-c_...
I don't know if you have every used 30Hz with a mouse, but it sucks. Especially when you are used to 120Hz... Now I am looking for a Dock that actually supports 4k60Hz with DisplayPort 1.2.
[+] [-] 3r8riacz|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] the_pwner224|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yboris|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] marinhero|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] seanalltogether|5 years ago|reply
4K 120hz seems about as forward compatible as I'll need for a decade at least.
[+] [-] tmakks|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] emilecantin|5 years ago|reply
I have finally achieved the "dream" of only having a single cable to connect / disconnect when I want to bring my laptop with me.
Full specs here: https://plugable.com/products/tbt3-udz#nav-specifications