Ecosia, the company backing TreeCard, has a search engine that plants trees. Ecosia has claimed to have planted 116M trees. Several environmentalists have come out in support of the product — and specifically in support of the way Ecosia uses partners to plant trees on Ecosia’s behalf and the way Ecosia keeps their partners accountable.
I personally will have a hard time saying good-bye to my credit card rewards. However I think the wooden card might have a viral aspect because people will want to comment on how unique the design is. This looks like another great product by Ecosia, and I hope that they continue to make competitive products that plant trees.
It’s also worth noting that while planting trees is very good for the environment, it is not a silver bullet against climate change.
> It’s also worth noting that while planting trees is very good for the environment, it is not a silver bullet against climate change.
Not buying things is better for the environment. Projects like this are brimming with good intention but are little better than salve for consumer guilt.
Is it just me who dislike being incentivized like this to do something? By having someone do a totally unrelated donation to charity when I do something?
I much rather do X because X itself is good than because X will have someone do Y and have me consider X to be good because Y is good.
It is essentially green washing, no matter how well intended it is or how good X in itself is. Doing some totally unrelated donation is essentially PR, where one instead could lower prices and have me myself donate that money.
(Also, credit card charges are insane and almost amount to stealing a percentage of all sales from businesses. Debit cards are better in that they, at least in Sweden, have a fixed low rate that doesn't change if someone buys for a lot or a little)
The problem is that far fewer people will donate without something like this. If you want to use a traditional cash back credit card and donate the rewards directly to something, the existence of this card does not stop you from doing that. Some people find it easier to donate in this way, and I don't see what's wrong with that.
> No. Zero fees. TreeCard will be 100% free to use.
> Every time you use your TreeCard, Mastercard processes the transaction and charges merchants (online and physical stores) a small fee. This is a standard fee paid by all merchants to1 accept card payments. We'll use that fee to plant trees.
I'm confused though. Surely this fee Mastercard charges goes to Mastercard, not the card company?
(disclosure: I work for Stripe but this is my own recollection of how this all works and could be wrong in the details)
There are multiple parties at play in a card network transaction:
0. The card holder
1. The card brand (TreeCard)
2. The issuing bank (unknown right now, but this is usually a bank like HSBC, Citi, Wells Fargo, etc)
3. The card network itself (MasterCard)
4. The merchant
5. The merchant's acquirer (Square, for example)
6. The merchant's acquiring bank (whoever Square uses as their baking provider)
Each entity other than the card holder and the merchant charge fees. The card holder _sometimes_ is charged a fee, but in this case TreeCard does not. The merchant is always charged a fee (which they can pass onto the customer in certain countries/circumstances).
The per-transaction fee the merchant pays is split between the card network and the issuing bank. The issuing bank then generally will share a portion of this revenue with the card brand.
Merchants are also charged by their acquiring bank, either on a per-transaction basis or a flat monthly fee.
How do you think card companies make money at the moment?
In exactly the same way - you buy something, the merchant is charged a fee, the payment provider takes a cut, the card company gets a cut. Sometimes they pass some of this cut on to the customer as well (the cashbacks and rewards.)
The bulk of the fee the merchant pays is actually interchange. It goes to the issuing institution (your bank, challenger bank or fintech). The rest goes to the processor (Stripe, Adyen, etc.. and the scheme such as Visa or Mastercard).
It probably works similar to an affiliate program but for credit/debit cards. I'd imagine that Mastercard benefits from Treecard encouraging their members/customers to make purchases using Mastercard's network.
I like the concept, but so many questions -- Who is behind this? As in, what bank? If it is a debit card, I have an account somewhere holding my money. Is it insured? Is this just a branded card from an existing bank, or is this a new organization? Is this even real, or just another "build a landing page to see if there is interest"?
"How it works" needs to answer the financial side of this product, not just what percentage of profit goes to trees.
Tree Card probably have an e-money licence. They’ll have a backing bank that actually holds the money, and probably another company that manages the card.
They’ll be required to keep that money in a custodial account with their backing bank, so Tree Card will have no ability to operate a fractional reserve, or use their clients money for operating purposes. Their banking bank is probably required to make sure they’re following the rules.
If Tree Card go bust, then your money will be safe (Tree Card can’t really touch it), it it’ll probably take some time to recover it from their backing bank.
If the backing bank goes bust, then I’m not sure what happens. But I think the custodial status of the account should offer some protections. But again it’ll take a while to get your money back.
Oh, and finally, there e-money license probably makes it very difficult to explain this. If they said something like “your money is as well protected as in an FSCS (U.K. government bank account protection) protected account” they would probably get told off by the regulator, because the protection isn’t the same.
> Is this even real, or just another "build a landing page to see if there is interest"?
My guess is somewhere in the middle, but leaning closer to the latter.
The reason the backing bank isn’t disclosed is likely it’s not fully regulatory approved yet based on some wording they used. Simple did a similar thing if memory serves when they launched.
We’re fast moving away from physical cards being necessary. With the ubiquity of Apple / Google Pay, the TreeCard feels like a gimmick more than a solution.
Maybe. I personally don't use those payment systems; I don't have any desire for Apple or Google to have that kind of direct individual insight into my spending.
It actually gives me more confidence in the product. I used to be on the fence regarding Ecosia (probably just the usual Internet cynicism), but I came around to thinking they are a force for good.
“We also use suppliers such as social media companies and search engines in order to advertise the launch of our Services. We may share your email address or device ID with these suppliers.”
I will not get this card because their privacy policy does not align with my values.
I think I’d rather get 1.5% (or whatever I can get) back and donate that to my chosen program instead of paying these guys all that percentage to then turn around and donate less of it to their chosen program.
Yeah, with Fidelity and Citi offering 2% back, it's hard to see how this card would have a bigger impact. I think the main difference is conspicuous virtuosity — every time you get the card out to pay, it shows everyone around you what a 'good person' you are.
Do the trees that they plant actually grow into full-sized adult trees or are they planted but never cared for? That's a huge issue which apparently affects many of these tree-planting schemes.
BTW are mechanical imprinters which need the embossed numbers still supported by any banks? The last time I seen one was more than a decade ago. I actually love offline analog tech, it would seem cool to me if they are, but I doubt so.
I tried to sign up for their wait list but gave up after entering my real name, a fake date of birth, and a fake phone number, which means I couldn't get their verification code. I understand asking for demographic info to prioritize a wait list, but that's not what they're asking.
why do they need all this info for a wait list of a service they don't yet provide? this doesn't inspire confidence.
just curious if there is any similar project to save existing old trees? planting new trees is nice but losing existing "old" trees is killing our environement from urban to global scale...
[+] [-] Nbox9|5 years ago|reply
I personally will have a hard time saying good-bye to my credit card rewards. However I think the wooden card might have a viral aspect because people will want to comment on how unique the design is. This looks like another great product by Ecosia, and I hope that they continue to make competitive products that plant trees.
It’s also worth noting that while planting trees is very good for the environment, it is not a silver bullet against climate change.
Previous hacker news discussion about Ecosia. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19324766
[+] [-] klyrs|5 years ago|reply
Not buying things is better for the environment. Projects like this are brimming with good intention but are little better than salve for consumer guilt.
[+] [-] Hamuko|5 years ago|reply
I have my doubts considering Säästöpankki has offered debit cards made out of birch years ago.
https://paperijapuu.fi/viilua-vinguttamaan/
https://twitter.com/HaveMik/status/913800152644759553
[+] [-] VoxPelli|5 years ago|reply
I much rather do X because X itself is good than because X will have someone do Y and have me consider X to be good because Y is good.
It is essentially green washing, no matter how well intended it is or how good X in itself is. Doing some totally unrelated donation is essentially PR, where one instead could lower prices and have me myself donate that money.
(Also, credit card charges are insane and almost amount to stealing a percentage of all sales from businesses. Debit cards are better in that they, at least in Sweden, have a fixed low rate that doesn't change if someone buys for a lot or a little)
[+] [-] darawk|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eatonphil|5 years ago|reply
> No. Zero fees. TreeCard will be 100% free to use.
> Every time you use your TreeCard, Mastercard processes the transaction and charges merchants (online and physical stores) a small fee. This is a standard fee paid by all merchants to1 accept card payments. We'll use that fee to plant trees.
I'm confused though. Surely this fee Mastercard charges goes to Mastercard, not the card company?
https://www.treecard.org/how-it-works
[+] [-] zrail|5 years ago|reply
(disclosure: I work for Stripe but this is my own recollection of how this all works and could be wrong in the details)
There are multiple parties at play in a card network transaction:
0. The card holder
1. The card brand (TreeCard)
2. The issuing bank (unknown right now, but this is usually a bank like HSBC, Citi, Wells Fargo, etc)
3. The card network itself (MasterCard)
4. The merchant
5. The merchant's acquirer (Square, for example)
6. The merchant's acquiring bank (whoever Square uses as their baking provider)
Each entity other than the card holder and the merchant charge fees. The card holder _sometimes_ is charged a fee, but in this case TreeCard does not. The merchant is always charged a fee (which they can pass onto the customer in certain countries/circumstances).
The per-transaction fee the merchant pays is split between the card network and the issuing bank. The issuing bank then generally will share a portion of this revenue with the card brand.
Merchants are also charged by their acquiring bank, either on a per-transaction basis or a flat monthly fee.
[+] [-] chrisseaton|5 years ago|reply
In exactly the same way - you buy something, the merchant is charged a fee, the payment provider takes a cut, the card company gets a cut. Sometimes they pass some of this cut on to the customer as well (the cashbacks and rewards.)
[+] [-] thiscatis|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] throwbacktictac|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] codingdave|5 years ago|reply
"How it works" needs to answer the financial side of this product, not just what percentage of profit goes to trees.
[+] [-] avianlyric|5 years ago|reply
They’ll be required to keep that money in a custodial account with their backing bank, so Tree Card will have no ability to operate a fractional reserve, or use their clients money for operating purposes. Their banking bank is probably required to make sure they’re following the rules.
If Tree Card go bust, then your money will be safe (Tree Card can’t really touch it), it it’ll probably take some time to recover it from their backing bank.
If the backing bank goes bust, then I’m not sure what happens. But I think the custodial status of the account should offer some protections. But again it’ll take a while to get your money back.
Oh, and finally, there e-money license probably makes it very difficult to explain this. If they said something like “your money is as well protected as in an FSCS (U.K. government bank account protection) protected account” they would probably get told off by the regulator, because the protection isn’t the same.
[+] [-] jsjohnst|5 years ago|reply
My guess is somewhere in the middle, but leaning closer to the latter.
The reason the backing bank isn’t disclosed is likely it’s not fully regulatory approved yet based on some wording they used. Simple did a similar thing if memory serves when they launched.
[+] [-] fumblebee|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] throwaway201103|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Tomte|5 years ago|reply
It actually gives me more confidence in the product. I used to be on the fence regarding Ecosia (probably just the usual Internet cynicism), but I came around to thinking they are a force for good.
[+] [-] newhaus1994|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fullstackchris|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] slekker|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] soupson|5 years ago|reply
I will not get this card because their privacy policy does not align with my values.
[+] [-] dwighttk|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gnicholas|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wackget|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] qwerty456127|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Raidion|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rahimiali|5 years ago|reply
why do they need all this info for a wait list of a service they don't yet provide? this doesn't inspire confidence.
[+] [-] zaxpr|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rishidevkota|5 years ago|reply