UI redesigns of desktop operating systems are usually opposite of exciting these days. You could be damn sure they'll further optimize it for touchscreens no one uses.
Here's an opinion: desktop UIs are mature. They serve their purpose outstandingly well. The best thing you could do is revert most of the last 10 years of "innovation" and then leave them alone forever. Stop reinventing stuff that has worked well for decades.
Ironically today I tried to pair a Bluetooth device on my wife's Surface Pro 4 and I told her to hit the Windows key and start typing Bluetooth and then select the result for managing bluetooth devices. She opened it up and we were unable to add the Bluetooth device no matter what we did. It was the most frustrating experience I had in months (I am a macOS and Linux user). Later I discovered that there is an entire different Bluetooth managing app on Windows. One had the old school look, the other had some modern oversized bullshit look. Turns out one of those two worked, the other didn't. Windows search returned the non working one first. In the taskbar was a Bluetooth icon to the other one. WTAF?
Honestly, fuck Windows for being such an utter pile of shit.
They don't need a UI re-design. They need a fucking working operating system.
Desktop UIs are hardly mature, but for the last 15 years UI innovation has been about putting lipstick on a pig rather than deep-diving subsystems and figuring out how to graphically represent and control them.
Designers aren't doing subsystem deep-dives, they're just implementing subsets of existing wholly inadequate GUIs using new widgets. Conversely, systems people who understand the un-GUIed subsystems aren't doing design work to better expose them, or expose them at all. It's an unproductive and frustrating stalemate.
Windows 7 was their last true desktop UI. What came after was the mobile tax, driven by their lust for appstore margins. We had to gradually claw it back since the Windows 8 disaster, but I'm confident they will never give up.
On the contrary. I think desktop UI design needs lots of improvements. To me the peak was around Windows 7 but that's not "perfect" - it needs more improvements in the same direction. Probably KDE is a small improvement over Windows 7, but of course has some drawbacks by being exclusively on Linux. Still, it's my favorite modern desktop UI.
Maybe we'll finally get one Settings area again so we don't have stuff like: Search 'mouse' > Click 'Mouse settings' > Don't find any option to change pointer speed > Click the tiny 'Additional mouse options' text > Click 'Pointer Options' > Change the mouse pointer speed.
The touch screen UI experience design isn't well thought out.
I never use tablet mode even though I have a few windows detachable devices.
All they need to fix it is to realize that windows isn't a mobile is. And that windows users keep their important stuff in the desktop.
In tablet mode, desktop is hidden and you'd would have to jump through hoops to access it.
It seems windows cannot distinguish between a touch screen tap and a mouse. Because long pressing on desktop randomly shows a touch optimized context menu or the normal one designed for mouse.
> UI redesigns of desktop operating systems are usually opposite of exciting these days. ... Here's an opinion: desktop UIs are mature. They serve their purpose outstandingly well.
I couldn't agree more. Your points are exactly why I've remained a happy Linux Mint user for nearly a decade. I don't dread OS or desktop environment updates, precisely because I know my chosen desktop environment will mostly remain the same (if not exactly the same).
The Desktop UI paradigm has definitely matured, and requires only some fine tuning here and there. Mostly with graphics and not design.
What Microsoft really need is a Window strategy. Where is it heading. Its source of revenue in the future. Its longtime programming framework, library, API Strategy etc....
I believe they have WinUI 3.0 now? What happened to WPF, UWP and WinForms? And they are moving all of the Outlook Apps to Electron for cross platform development. [1] And just look at .Net. Have they finally settled on .Net Core now?
May be because I am on Mac so I am confused. It is not Apple are perfect, but looking from the outside either Microsoft doesn't have a clue or they just dont care.
I'm not sure the version where Excel went from desktop app to rendered monster, but if we could roll that back I'd be most grateful. The number of UX issues that generated surely was predictable.
I don’t think Microsoft will make the same mistake again by pursuing a touch UI on the desktop. Windows 8 and the Metro UI was a huge waste of time and effort that really harmed Microsoft.
What I think they are pursuing is how to monetize Windows. They tried it in Windows 10 with some start menu shenanigans, but people hated it and you can find tons of articles about how to hack Windows to get rid of that shit. So this role’s job will be to find a design that supports monetization without pissing off users.
I have often wondered when a UI will be 'settled' and won't need to be updated anymore. But then what will the UI designers do? Idle fingers make new designs?
Hope they aim for consistency in the refresh. I don't mind constant refreshes or redesigns. I don't care that I'm slightly less efficient in the modern settings pages than in the old control panel. I'm happy to lose a bit of efficiency to have a nice design. Just like I want web pages to have a nice design even at a (reasonable) cost of readability or usability.
But what does bug me is when the refreshes are half baked. Either refresh everything visible and hide the old one entirely behind some obscure command if it must remain, or don't refresh at all.
I hate it so much when I want to do some obscure thing on Windows, but when I go to the place you used to be able to do it, it's gone! Replaced with a "modern" control panel which doesn't support that obscure thing. Instead, I have to find my way to the old window via a different route. Eventually the original control panel pops up and I can change that setting.
I don't have a problem with changing things if it replaces all the functionality.
Complete agreement. It's like having two sons named Daniel. One's handsome and useless, one's smart and useful. Whenever you call for Daniel, the handsome one pushes the smart one down the stairs and gets to you first, when all you needed was the smart one to come here and figure out how to connect your microphone for you.
> The Windows Core User Experiences team builds interfaces for Windows and Surface Hub customers around the world, and we’re looking for a collaborative, inclusive and customer obsessed engineer to help us build the future of Windows Experiences!
> On this team, you’ll orchestrate and deliver experiences that ensure Windows is a great user experience for our customers.
> You will have the opportunity to build delightful, polished, experiences for Windows as well as for our Surface Hub product line. You will play a key role in open-ended explorations, prototyping and identifying business opportunities for Windows experiences. We're looking for collaborative engineers to bring their passion, drive and technical acumen to help us accomplish these goals.
> We have a wide spectrum of fantastic opportunities to further advance your career and expand your skillset – from building UI using the latest cutting-edge XAML technologies, designing new APIs in conjunction with the our platform team partners, to interfacing with hardware teams to build the essential platform and infrastructure in our OS - as well as working directly with our customers to understand their needs and deliver magical software that exceeds their expectations!
How do they get from that to "This UI refresh will reportedly include an overhaul to the Start Menu, Action Center and some in-box/bundled Microsoft apps" is my question?
Sounds like a normal job ad for any UI or design related engineer.
> Talk about making a news story out of nothing! ....
The article states your post is the job posting after it was edited. The original had the text:
"On this team, you'll work with our key platform, Surface, and OEM partners to orchestrate and deliver a sweeping visual rejuvenation of Windows experiences to signal to our customers that Windows is BACK and ensure that Windows is considered the best user OS experience for customers"
Thanks for some sanity. This looks like a standard job form. I worked on the Windows Core UX team for a very long time (technically, it was renamed from Core UX to Core Experiences Evolved to Desktop Experience to..... I might have forgotten one, but it was renamed to Core UX shortly before I left), and this could have been the job posting for my team at any point.
While there are things to improve—better UI scaling, type rendering, dark mode, touch compatibility—I personally would like to see a return to simplicity.
The Windows UI has been inconsistent and weird since Windows 2000 (or XP if you turned off the Sesame Street theme).
Maybe I’m just coming from a place of ignorance (I haven’t used Windows for years), but why? The Win10 UI looks to me probably the most attractive and usable it’s ever been. Enough so that I’d probably feel comfortable switching to it if I decided the Mac isn’t for me anymore.
Not that I don’t trust MS’s recent design direction, but I have to wonder if such a major overhaul is warranted.
You are not using it, I am not using it, lots of people never use it.
For this reason they need to change it. So we have a reason to use it.
Way back in the Windows 3.11 days and also in the Win 95 days and to some extent the Windows XP days they gave people a good reason to use it. With 3.11 it was more to do with the apps that came along for the ride, with 95 it was neat touches like the context menu and DirectX, with XP it was because it wasn't a DOS system in disguise any more.
In the next iteration they have plenty of opportunities to get it right. Lots of historical design decisions were taken because of reasons that no longer matter. They can just do it right rather than due to a half baked whim.
An overhaul is warranted, to bring people back to using it.
If you only seen curated screenshots then prepare for disappointment. It is a random hodgepodge of UI/UX design patterns and toolkits. Theres few sane global design default so basically every app is just archane memorization as opposed to just groking the OS/Desktop design principles.
I've used Linux distros my whole life but I feel confident saying Linux desktop has surpassed Windows in usability.
I occasionally interact with Windows for family members and it always amazes me how wrong things are.
I wonder how much more they will prod me to move all my files to their servers/cloud. And then how many more times per week they will force me to shut down my computer and update it. Its almost like they are moving to PC as a service. I anticipate ill be moving to Linux pretty soon.
I am hoping for UX refresh instead of a UI refresh. UI is on the surface, UX is everything else.
I am genuinely hoping for more pen & touch-screen focused accomodations too. The keyboard/mouse experience for windows is already decent enough, but these new input devices need help. This is especially true with the ipad pro becoming more of a general purpose computing device.
Lastly, I hope windows puts more care into revamping curation of various app/program stores/managers. Chocolatey is great, but is a pain to use and isn't as widely supported. The windows store has a few gems in what is a sea f spam apps.
Lastly Lastly, better native tiling, search and workspace management please. (I know powertoys exists, but why not integrate it directly)
Not again. Now, anno 2021, it's so messy with all different UI-kits they've standardized in the past 20+ years that a Linux desktop looks clean in comparison.
>This UI refresh will reportedly include an overhaul to the Start Menu, Action Center and some in-box/bundled Microsoft apps, and they will be an optional change.
How often has an optional change become the only option after awhile?
I look forward to this, but I have been hearing about a major UI overhaul to make the Windows UI "beautiful" since Windows 10 launched...and it has basically never happened. It is incredible how Apple can launch a major UI overhaul (which I think looks great) while Microsoft has more or less the same look as Windows did when 10 first launched (granted it has gotten some good features since then.)
Edit: this thread is full of Linux stans (I use Linux too!) calling Windows a POS... I don't see how that is helpful or relevant to anything. Windows is actually...very good. It has some problems, but uh, using Linux and even MacOS, every OS has its share of problems/difficulties.
Right now you can't blindly mouse up and over in Microsoft Edge to get to the leftmost tab since that space is reserved for the browser window and clicking it will un-maximize the window or minimize it when you click again expecting to arrive at your email.
I'd also like to be able to open Internet Explorer when I open the start menu, type in "internet explorer" and click the listing with the IE logo marked "Internet Explorer" Around half the time this opens Microsoft Edge.
You know it's sad when I feel no anxiety over a major redesign. It's so awful right now that the idea of them throwing it all in the trash and starting over is very appealing.
I look forward to a redesign of some, but not all, of the system preferences, so that there are three distinct styles of preference pane with different partially disjoint sets of options, that you have to go hunting through to find the setting you want.
[+] [-] grishka|5 years ago|reply
Here's an opinion: desktop UIs are mature. They serve their purpose outstandingly well. The best thing you could do is revert most of the last 10 years of "innovation" and then leave them alone forever. Stop reinventing stuff that has worked well for decades.
[+] [-] dustinmoris|5 years ago|reply
Honestly, fuck Windows for being such an utter pile of shit.
They don't need a UI re-design. They need a fucking working operating system.
[+] [-] jjoonathan|5 years ago|reply
Designers aren't doing subsystem deep-dives, they're just implementing subsets of existing wholly inadequate GUIs using new widgets. Conversely, systems people who understand the un-GUIed subsystems aren't doing design work to better expose them, or expose them at all. It's an unproductive and frustrating stalemate.
[+] [-] PeterStuer|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] loxs|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Nition|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jayd16|5 years ago|reply
(read: touchscreens I don't use)
Surfaces, touchscreen laptops, and convertibles are all pretty popular.
[+] [-] vezycash|5 years ago|reply
I never use tablet mode even though I have a few windows detachable devices.
All they need to fix it is to realize that windows isn't a mobile is. And that windows users keep their important stuff in the desktop.
In tablet mode, desktop is hidden and you'd would have to jump through hoops to access it.
It seems windows cannot distinguish between a touch screen tap and a mouse. Because long pressing on desktop randomly shows a touch optimized context menu or the normal one designed for mouse.
[+] [-] mzarate06|5 years ago|reply
I couldn't agree more. Your points are exactly why I've remained a happy Linux Mint user for nearly a decade. I don't dread OS or desktop environment updates, precisely because I know my chosen desktop environment will mostly remain the same (if not exactly the same).
[+] [-] ksec|5 years ago|reply
What Microsoft really need is a Window strategy. Where is it heading. Its source of revenue in the future. Its longtime programming framework, library, API Strategy etc....
I believe they have WinUI 3.0 now? What happened to WPF, UWP and WinForms? And they are moving all of the Outlook Apps to Electron for cross platform development. [1] And just look at .Net. Have they finally settled on .Net Core now?
May be because I am on Mac so I am confused. It is not Apple are perfect, but looking from the outside either Microsoft doesn't have a clue or they just dont care.
[1] https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-to-replace-its-many-...
[+] [-] tomrod|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jbob2000|5 years ago|reply
What I think they are pursuing is how to monetize Windows. They tried it in Windows 10 with some start menu shenanigans, but people hated it and you can find tons of articles about how to hack Windows to get rid of that shit. So this role’s job will be to find a design that supports monetization without pissing off users.
[+] [-] _zamorano_|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lemonspat|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] alkonaut|5 years ago|reply
But what does bug me is when the refreshes are half baked. Either refresh everything visible and hide the old one entirely behind some obscure command if it must remain, or don't refresh at all.
[+] [-] leoedin|5 years ago|reply
I don't have a problem with changing things if it replaces all the functionality.
[+] [-] syshum|5 years ago|reply
It is trying to do to must "automatically" for you instead of just letting you control the system.
[+] [-] Nathanael_M|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] capableweb|5 years ago|reply
> The Windows Core User Experiences team builds interfaces for Windows and Surface Hub customers around the world, and we’re looking for a collaborative, inclusive and customer obsessed engineer to help us build the future of Windows Experiences!
> On this team, you’ll orchestrate and deliver experiences that ensure Windows is a great user experience for our customers.
> You will have the opportunity to build delightful, polished, experiences for Windows as well as for our Surface Hub product line. You will play a key role in open-ended explorations, prototyping and identifying business opportunities for Windows experiences. We're looking for collaborative engineers to bring their passion, drive and technical acumen to help us accomplish these goals.
> We have a wide spectrum of fantastic opportunities to further advance your career and expand your skillset – from building UI using the latest cutting-edge XAML technologies, designing new APIs in conjunction with the our platform team partners, to interfacing with hardware teams to build the essential platform and infrastructure in our OS - as well as working directly with our customers to understand their needs and deliver magical software that exceeds their expectations!
How do they get from that to "This UI refresh will reportedly include an overhaul to the Start Menu, Action Center and some in-box/bundled Microsoft apps" is my question?
Sounds like a normal job ad for any UI or design related engineer.
[+] [-] ChrisLomont|5 years ago|reply
The article states your post is the job posting after it was edited. The original had the text:
"On this team, you'll work with our key platform, Surface, and OEM partners to orchestrate and deliver a sweeping visual rejuvenation of Windows experiences to signal to our customers that Windows is BACK and ensure that Windows is considered the best user OS experience for customers"
[+] [-] interestica|5 years ago|reply
They reported it. It's now reportedly. And all other sites can also mention "reportedly" as well now too.
[+] [-] Arainach|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gwbas1c|5 years ago|reply
The link says it was posted on Jan 4
[+] [-] vehemenz|5 years ago|reply
The Windows UI has been inconsistent and weird since Windows 2000 (or XP if you turned off the Sesame Street theme).
[+] [-] spaetzleesser|5 years ago|reply
Very true. Windows 95 and then 2000 showed some real efforts to get good and consistent usability. They threw that all away with Windows 8 and Metro.
[+] [-] ilimilku|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eyelidlessness|5 years ago|reply
Not that I don’t trust MS’s recent design direction, but I have to wonder if such a major overhaul is warranted.
[+] [-] spoonjim|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] runjake|5 years ago|reply
While I find Windows 10 usable and attractive, I find it still has a lot of clunkiness that needs work.
[+] [-] Theodores|5 years ago|reply
For this reason they need to change it. So we have a reason to use it.
Way back in the Windows 3.11 days and also in the Win 95 days and to some extent the Windows XP days they gave people a good reason to use it. With 3.11 it was more to do with the apps that came along for the ride, with 95 it was neat touches like the context menu and DirectX, with XP it was because it wasn't a DOS system in disguise any more.
In the next iteration they have plenty of opportunities to get it right. Lots of historical design decisions were taken because of reasons that no longer matter. They can just do it right rather than due to a half baked whim.
An overhaul is warranted, to bring people back to using it.
[+] [-] tylerjwilk00|5 years ago|reply
I've used Linux distros my whole life but I feel confident saying Linux desktop has surpassed Windows in usability.
I occasionally interact with Windows for family members and it always amazes me how wrong things are.
[+] [-] trident5000|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] screye|5 years ago|reply
I am genuinely hoping for more pen & touch-screen focused accomodations too. The keyboard/mouse experience for windows is already decent enough, but these new input devices need help. This is especially true with the ipad pro becoming more of a general purpose computing device.
Lastly, I hope windows puts more care into revamping curation of various app/program stores/managers. Chocolatey is great, but is a pain to use and isn't as widely supported. The windows store has a few gems in what is a sea f spam apps.
Lastly Lastly, better native tiling, search and workspace management please. (I know powertoys exists, but why not integrate it directly)
[+] [-] cies|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pjmlp|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dustinmoris|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] goda90|5 years ago|reply
How often has an optional change become the only option after awhile?
[+] [-] infinityplus1|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] partiallypro|5 years ago|reply
Edit: this thread is full of Linux stans (I use Linux too!) calling Windows a POS... I don't see how that is helpful or relevant to anything. Windows is actually...very good. It has some problems, but uh, using Linux and even MacOS, every OS has its share of problems/difficulties.
[+] [-] bengale|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] PascLeRasc|5 years ago|reply
Right now you can't blindly mouse up and over in Microsoft Edge to get to the leftmost tab since that space is reserved for the browser window and clicking it will un-maximize the window or minimize it when you click again expecting to arrive at your email.
I'd also like to be able to open Internet Explorer when I open the start menu, type in "internet explorer" and click the listing with the IE logo marked "Internet Explorer" Around half the time this opens Microsoft Edge.
This is probably asking for too much though.
[+] [-] stevehawk|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] x87678r|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jolux|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gruez|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] refracture|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] uncledave|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rodarmor|5 years ago|reply