There's more serious reasons this file picker is broken.
Here's a trivial to reproduce and obvious issue that's been there for several years now:
1. Open a directory that loads slowly (e.g. one with thousands of files on a smb3 mount)
2. While the list is loading, select a file (but do not open it)
3. Wait for the whole list to load
Once the list finishes loading, the file on the very top of the list gets automatically selected (discarding your selection).
Thus, if you select a file and click open, in the time between you select and click open, the selection can auto-change and you'll end up opening something else than what you've selected.
Picking directories has been pretty broken forever as well. Say you start in ~/Downloads/foo and want to store the file in ~/Downloads, then navigating up will have "foo" selected, with usually no blank space to un-select (so you'd need to do ctrl+click or something to that tune); clicking "Save" (or whatever) will then descend into that directory instead of saving, so just using the mouse, or not using any shortcuts, you really can't do this.
This, other UX and even performance (!) issues that have been mentioned in siblings as well as TFA makes the Gtk file pickers easily one of the TOP10 reasons to avoid Gtk and Gnome for anything.
The interaction design of these dialogs is simply shit. Windows (and also KDE, which has been using a copy of the Windows dialog for about 20 years) show how to do it correctly.
GUIs should effectively be finite state machines and people expect them to operate that way. People understand latency and get used to it; it happened on mainframes and other terminal applications and people memorize the state machine and can tab and type through an interface at high throughput anyway.
One of the most frustrating experiences is related to the OP; reflow in browsers as new elements load making it impossible to click on the right thing until the whole page finishes loading. Popups are also nearly as bad but maybe less avoidable.
Even worse is when you know the exact file name that you want to open, and the interface fights against you writing it! For example I want to open /tmp/a.png, but there's thousands of files on /tmp and the cursor disappears while "loading" them, and and some characters of the file name are lost, or typed on different parts of the interface.
Let's do another... Open any directory with 3+ items. As first item is highlighted, quickly hit <down arrow>, <enter>, <down arrow>. The 3rd item opens...
There is a lag when hitting <enter> and the last <down arrow> is processed out of order :/
Many years ago I was a hit by a bug in the Gnome file chooser (on ubuntu) that selected a random sibling file in the same directory. Caused me to accidentally upload something I definetely didn't want to publish.
In fact I have never since directly uploaded anything from my own personal file directories, instead I make a copy of it under /tmp for the upload process.
Not sure if this is the same bug you are talking about
It's stuff like this that makes so hard to onboard new non-techie users. The proverbial mom or grandma, whose knowledge about the "filesystem" and "directory hierarchies" is already pretty weak, would probably spend 30 minutes or more with this exercise in frustration, before giving up and/or grabbing the phone to ask for help.
When you're past the stage of first impressions, it's a death by a thousand cuts.
Windows is not better in lots of these details, but at least users already know its tricks due to Microsoft's years of desktop dominance. I'd argue the effort of changing platforms should be about improving the experience, not about swapping a list of UX issues with a set of different ones, otherwise the change isn't really worth it for most users.
EDIT: oops I meant to write this comment as a reply to the sibling that talks about how difficult it is to select a parent directory in the file picker dialog (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25721368)
KDE user here, so cannot comment on this case exactly, but in my experience the default "Windows" of Windows and Mac are also terrible.
Try to split a window pane on Windows, or right-click and create a file in Mac. In either, try to open an SFTP folder as if it is local, or integrate Git status icons into finder (all easy to do on KDE and Gnome). Good Luck.
The number of copy+paste bugs and QuickLook hanging issues on Mac is not even funny.
Just look at all the enhancers like Norton Commander and Path Finder, and you can see that even calling the OS Windows didn't make MS put too much effort into their windows.
There are also multiple file pickers (Qt/GTK) and they don't share history or recent file list. Also in GTK picker if I select an existing file on Save by accident, I can't unselect it and I have to write filename again manually myself or close the picker and try again. This is annoying, time-consuming and frustrating.
File pickers are one of the things I don't like on GNU/Linux unfortunatelly, saying that as someone who daily uses it as a primary platform.
You will find lots of such examples of a feature which you personally find very important and wonder why such a simple thing is not supported yet. I guess everyone has such examples. And you will also find such examples for MacOSX or Windows.
Anyway, I guess there are actually not too much people caring about this feature. And the intersection of those who do and those who have enough free time and knowledge to implement this is just empty.
Btw, I don't quite understand the comment about KDE. It sounds like the the author claims that KDE lacks other relevant features. But comparing Gnome vs KDE, it is quite clear that KDE has much more features. This is never a complaint I heard about KDE.
This has somehow gotten worse in recent years. When saving, it used to be you could use the mouse to navigate to a directory, then type the desired filename, and press enter.
Now, typing the filename initiates a contextual search within the current directory.
Clicking in the filename textbox and starting to type doesn’t work either. You have to highlight the base (not the extension or “.”) of the filename. At that point, you can finally start typing the name of the file you want to save.
The same problem occurs if the file chooser happens to already be in the directory where you want to save the file.
"At one particularly frustrating moment, I offered the following: “Bill, a shower, a toilet, and a water fountain all have mechanisms to control water flow, places where the water comes out, some sort of porcelain basin to hold the water, and a drain, but we don’t combine them into one thing to reduce their learning curve. We don’t merge them into one object because each of them are in use in fundamentally different ways at different times.”
Then the pause.
Then Bill’s verdict. ["That's just rude."]
Ouch.
As I saw my career disintegrate before me, I started to question just how “beautiful” my analogy really was. To his credit, Bill was forgiving, and met with me many times after that, giving me numerous opportunities to get him on board with all manner of ideas coming from my team (with varying degrees of success on my part). Ultimately, I never did succeed in making Bill really comfortable with a more emotional approach to software design. But the real lesson of the day was learned. In the software industry, as long as the engineering-minded run the show, the notion of subtle and textured user experience design that balances the emotional and functional aspects of a software experience will always struggle to take root."
Pretty sure 99% of regular people would be happy if there was a desktop with GNOME 2 feature parity but with a good Wayland compositor and probably some modern features that would come from that (multimonitor, VRR, ...).
I just can't understand how anyone could defend GNOME 3. Their own staff have to use extensions (that break every update), even Fedora (!!!) has to patch GNOME packages now.
They kept fighting that their workflow is superior and now they are going to change it all over next release. They keep butchering their toolkit, I can only use Qt applications now. Hell I'll take even Electron over GTK.
For me the Linux desktop with a WM is the perfect balance of exposing the internals and UX. It could be better but that's true to every OS, at least here I have my freedom. I'm keeping my eye on KDE, seems like they rewrote their less than ideal compositor (legacy X11 is a burden) and maybe in a year I could be using that.
I've once heard someone say that GNOME is Microsoft's favorite DE. You can guess why.
Up until 2020, I didn't use screen sharing all that much, so the lack of support for that wasn't a big deal with using Wayland.
Now days though... this is a problem. I feel sorry for the folks running some Linux desktop that don't know why the option to start screen sharing just doesn't exist in various apps. I can imagine another Linux user saying "but it is right there!" to them, also not understanding why they have it but the person they're talking to does not have screen sharing.
Omg, this is insane, I now realize I automatically memorize the first 3 and last 3 parts of filenames I need in the picker... For screenshots I read the date very carefully and fear the day I upload a wrong one. I was going to the toilet with a plunger, not even realizing it.
Btw, if you work on MacOS (which has been a while for me now), you get very used to hitting space everywhere to get previews. What a feature!
As a KDE user I wouldn't care what the Gnome people do if their BS wouldn't affect me. But it does, and it's annoying!
They refuse since over a decade to implement some generic way to open the file-picker native to the running DE. They force their garbage usability on everybody, even people that would prefer not to use "anything Gnome". Same issue with CSDs, by the way.
Like I said: They can have their broken stuff at their place if they prefer it like that. But it's utterly antisocial to force that stuff on everybody without any opt-out possibility. They even actively and deliberately break and remove configuration options. That's just not OK.
> As a KDE user I wouldn't care what the Gnome people do if their BS wouldn't affect me. But it does, and it's annoying!
KDE has own sins as well - they removed ability of running Dolphin as root giving some vague arguments about security and users protection, while other DE allows running their file managers with highest rights without any walkarounds nor weird acrobatics. I've seen some Plasma addons restoring this feature but it seems it doesn't work on my Manjaro at all.
Somehow I feel pity for Gnome users. It reminds me of the early KDE 4 days, just that they seem to be stuck in this limbo for a much longer time. Gnome 3 was released in 2011...
From a distance it looks like a personal preference thing: some people that prefer the KDE desktop environment might just prefer the GTK dialogs, controls or UI decisions made by certain GTK apps.
How about when you try to save a file, so you choose File Save As, change the directory, and then try to start typing the filename and it starts searching (recursively!) instead of letting you type your new filename? Even better (not), then it lands on the first matching search item and makes the filename that filename?
Wait, this is a GNOME thing and not a Linux thing? WTF? I've used GNOME for over a year now but this thread is seriously making me consider switching to something like KDE...
Gnome uses Gtk; Gtk is the Gimp Toolkit. It was created for an image editing program. In a way funny that their file picker is missing such an feature one would expect in an image editing program these days.
(From scrolling offer the discussion I can in parts see the architectural constraints they have and can image they have other priorities ...)
On macOS, when you drag a file into an Open or Save panel, the panel’s current directory switches to the dragged file’s containing directory and highlights that dragged file.
On Windows, when you drag a file into an Open or Save panel, the dragged file is moved from its original location to the panel’s current directory. It is a destructive action!
That may be one little thing but it’s part of a whole number of reasons why I dislike using Windows. Alas, all the counter arguments to any and all reason I might give for preferring macOS do sound like toilet-plunging family members.
My personal theory about why this isn't fixed is that in open-source software, if you halfass a UI implementation one time it keeps that halfass implementation more or less eternally because it's "good enough" for the person who learns to work around it.
For my photo editor Filmulator I resolved to not add features that haven't had the UI fully thought through. For a while it meant it was definitely subpar capability-wise, but now that it's approaching feature completeness it means that it's actually intuitive and streamlined to use.
Gnome seemed always vary bad to me. Missing a lot of convenient features. I used KDE instead which had all the features I expected plus some more that Windows didn't have yet but totally should have.
I was always wondering why Gnome is so weird and broken. Why does it exist? Who uses it? I found out when I got my hands on first Macbook in my life. While KDE mirrors Windows, Gnome mirrored some version of MacOS. Using MacOS was as horrible for me as using Gnome. A lot of basic features that I took for granted in Windows and KDE were missing or hidden so weirdly that I couldn't find them without googling. And I had to google each time I needed them because placement was so weird that my brain just refused to remember something this stupid. And yet some people used Macs, liked Macs, adjusted their daily routines to work with something that for me was missing basic functionality. And praising it! "Of course! That's how it works! That's what the plunger is for! That's completely intuitive!"
M1 chip might be all the rage but I refuse to touch Mac again till their os gets decent free window manager and file manager as alternative. Same way I'm not touching Gnome.
> One might also say "Just use KDE!" Yeah, I guess I could use KDE, just like I use the downstairs toilet instead of the other ones.
Yeah but when you go to the downstairs toilet you can't bring in your favourite newspaper because the paper its printed on isn't compatible with the light bulb and you can't read it.
Firefox on KDE uses the GTK filepicker. No thumbnails.
Windows' file picker is actually an almost fully-featured Explorer instance, and is easily accessible from any application with a single function call. The "loose components" model that a lot of OSS seems to follow means that things like this require more effort, despite the fact that GNOME is supposed to be an integrated environment.
What’s the point of doing a whole upgrade of the GTK toolkit while ignoring this problem?
An unfortunate consequence of the incessant trendchasing that has taken hold of the software industry, closed and open source alike. Frankly, I am as puzzled as the article author how solving existing problems is somehow shunned in favour of ignoring them and making "new things"... which usually tends to just create more new problems instead. No one seems to value stability and the strive toward perfection anymore. This phenomenon has been ascribed to "resume driven development", but I'm not sure if that is completely responsible for it.
GNOME is in general terrible for everything with image related work (last tested on Ubuntu 20.04). In the past I thought finder on macOS is terrible (it's still the worst piece of macOS and I don't like it) but GNOME files aka Nautilus tops it for sure (also because of space wasting issues).
XFCE and KDE both do a better job than GNOME in this regard. And also Windows Explorer was and is much much better in this area.
Somebody in Gnome did an awesome thing and I want to know who it was:
If I open my laptop after being logged in, I can just start typing my password and the login manager does the right thing: "Hey, he's probably typing a password. Let's throw it into the password widget and see what happens..."
I'm on an XPS running Ubuntu 20.04.
Who implemented that feature? It's a great ergonomic feature and improves the UX of logging in so much.
> This is why Free desktop operating systems are a joke and haven’t been popularly adopted.
I'm at least somewhat with the author in general, but this is a case of "grass is always greener" syndrome. I made a full switch to Linux from Windows in no small part because of issues just like this, I got tired of OneNote completely breaking on my Surface. Even on much more polished operating systems -- Mac's window snapping is still inexplicably awful for, as far as I can tell, no reason at all except that Apple refuses to copy the simple model that both Windows and Gnome adopted. We tolerate it. I purchased a 3rd-party program to replicate the functionality, and it sometimes works.
A more drastic example, my proprietary router won't let me set a custom DNS server at the router level. It has an option to do so, but it doesn't do anything, and this is an open bug that people complained about for years that was just... ignored. And eventually they pushed a fix for it that broke everyone's routers and required manual rollback.
If something isn't a showstopper, sometimes it just gets ignored in general. Has nothing to do with whether or not it's free software, and everything to do with whether or not somebody somewhere cares enough to fix it.
Death by a thousand small inefficiencies, quirks and bugs...
It's such a shame, because fixing most of these small bugs is far less work than building new features. Nobody wants to put the work in though... Nobody has the overarching vision of a consistent UX that just works out of the box without oddities, quirks and workarounds.
Aren't there plenty of little UX niggles in macOS/windows just like this that haven't been fixed for years either? I'm not sure why this is being used as a reason why "Free desktop operating systems are a joke".
I think "use KDE" is perfectly valid advice here too. The toilet analogy doesn't really hold, your satisfaction of software that works for you shouldn't be at all affected by the existence of software you don't like and don't use, that's just silly.
[+] [-] snvzz|5 years ago|reply
Here's a trivial to reproduce and obvious issue that's been there for several years now:
1. Open a directory that loads slowly (e.g. one with thousands of files on a smb3 mount)
2. While the list is loading, select a file (but do not open it)
3. Wait for the whole list to load
Once the list finishes loading, the file on the very top of the list gets automatically selected (discarding your selection).
Thus, if you select a file and click open, in the time between you select and click open, the selection can auto-change and you'll end up opening something else than what you've selected.
It is this bad.
[+] [-] formerly_proven|5 years ago|reply
This, other UX and even performance (!) issues that have been mentioned in siblings as well as TFA makes the Gtk file pickers easily one of the TOP10 reasons to avoid Gtk and Gnome for anything.
The interaction design of these dialogs is simply shit. Windows (and also KDE, which has been using a copy of the Windows dialog for about 20 years) show how to do it correctly.
[+] [-] benlivengood|5 years ago|reply
One of the most frustrating experiences is related to the OP; reflow in browsers as new elements load making it impossible to click on the right thing until the whole page finishes loading. Popups are also nearly as bad but maybe less avoidable.
[+] [-] enriquto|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ht85|5 years ago|reply
There is a lag when hitting <enter> and the last <down arrow> is processed out of order :/
[+] [-] MawKKe|5 years ago|reply
In fact I have never since directly uploaded anything from my own personal file directories, instead I make a copy of it under /tmp for the upload process.
Not sure if this is the same bug you are talking about
[+] [-] j1elo|5 years ago|reply
When you're past the stage of first impressions, it's a death by a thousand cuts.
Windows is not better in lots of these details, but at least users already know its tricks due to Microsoft's years of desktop dominance. I'd argue the effort of changing platforms should be about improving the experience, not about swapping a list of UX issues with a set of different ones, otherwise the change isn't really worth it for most users.
EDIT: oops I meant to write this comment as a reply to the sibling that talks about how difficult it is to select a parent directory in the file picker dialog (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25721368)
[+] [-] juskrey|5 years ago|reply
1. System boots up and starts some apps which are creating windows. This may take some time.
2. While all of that loading, I am seeing some of the apps of no use, I am quickly switching to one, capturing focus, and pressing the quit shortcut.
3. Between my reaction and actual button press, some other app loads, and focus is switched to its window.
4. My keypress goes into another focused window, which gets closed instead of original one. Tada.
Why OS focus has a priority over user focus?
[+] [-] amlib|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sam_goody|5 years ago|reply
Try to split a window pane on Windows, or right-click and create a file in Mac. In either, try to open an SFTP folder as if it is local, or integrate Git status icons into finder (all easy to do on KDE and Gnome). Good Luck.
The number of copy+paste bugs and QuickLook hanging issues on Mac is not even funny.
Just look at all the enhancers like Norton Commander and Path Finder, and you can see that even calling the OS Windows didn't make MS put too much effort into their windows.
[+] [-] dheera|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] neop1x|5 years ago|reply
File pickers are one of the things I don't like on GNU/Linux unfortunatelly, saying that as someone who daily uses it as a primary platform.
MacOS and Windows file pickers work better.
[+] [-] keyle|5 years ago|reply
On the plus side it should be an easy fix?
[+] [-] albertzeyer|5 years ago|reply
For me personally, I wonder why mouse wheel/scroll acceleration is still not implemented. I implemented it a while ago for Xorg, which is outdated now, and also the maintainer was not happy with my approach. It's now a long outstanding proposal for libinput, https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/libinput/libinput/-/issues/7 / https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/issues/405 (original bug report from 2010: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=29905).
Anyway, I guess there are actually not too much people caring about this feature. And the intersection of those who do and those who have enough free time and knowledge to implement this is just empty.
Btw, I don't quite understand the comment about KDE. It sounds like the the author claims that KDE lacks other relevant features. But comparing Gnome vs KDE, it is quite clear that KDE has much more features. This is never a complaint I heard about KDE.
[+] [-] hedora|5 years ago|reply
Now, typing the filename initiates a contextual search within the current directory.
Clicking in the filename textbox and starting to type doesn’t work either. You have to highlight the base (not the extension or “.”) of the filename. At that point, you can finally start typing the name of the file you want to save.
The same problem occurs if the file chooser happens to already be in the directory where you want to save the file.
[+] [-] seltzered_|5 years ago|reply
"At one particularly frustrating moment, I offered the following: “Bill, a shower, a toilet, and a water fountain all have mechanisms to control water flow, places where the water comes out, some sort of porcelain basin to hold the water, and a drain, but we don’t combine them into one thing to reduce their learning curve. We don’t merge them into one object because each of them are in use in fundamentally different ways at different times.”
Then the pause.
Then Bill’s verdict. ["That's just rude."]
Ouch.
As I saw my career disintegrate before me, I started to question just how “beautiful” my analogy really was. To his credit, Bill was forgiving, and met with me many times after that, giving me numerous opportunities to get him on board with all manner of ideas coming from my team (with varying degrees of success on my part). Ultimately, I never did succeed in making Bill really comfortable with a more emotional approach to software design. But the real lesson of the day was learned. In the software industry, as long as the engineering-minded run the show, the notion of subtle and textured user experience design that balances the emotional and functional aspects of a software experience will always struggle to take root."
--
I keep a running list of little workflows and experiences I generally love on macOS and see if alternatives exist here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/148zTJUwfVv9xfDcpSoH3...
[+] [-] acgkmopvvgvmgv|5 years ago|reply
I just can't understand how anyone could defend GNOME 3. Their own staff have to use extensions (that break every update), even Fedora (!!!) has to patch GNOME packages now.
They kept fighting that their workflow is superior and now they are going to change it all over next release. They keep butchering their toolkit, I can only use Qt applications now. Hell I'll take even Electron over GTK.
For me the Linux desktop with a WM is the perfect balance of exposing the internals and UX. It could be better but that's true to every OS, at least here I have my freedom. I'm keeping my eye on KDE, seems like they rewrote their less than ideal compositor (legacy X11 is a burden) and maybe in a year I could be using that.
I've once heard someone say that GNOME is Microsoft's favorite DE. You can guess why.
[+] [-] ansible|5 years ago|reply
Up until 2020, I didn't use screen sharing all that much, so the lack of support for that wasn't a big deal with using Wayland.
Now days though... this is a problem. I feel sorry for the folks running some Linux desktop that don't know why the option to start screen sharing just doesn't exist in various apps. I can imagine another Linux user saying "but it is right there!" to them, also not understanding why they have it but the person they're talking to does not have screen sharing.
[+] [-] phkahler|5 years ago|reply
You mean like the ability to put things on the desktop? There's even a desktop folder, but well....
I use gnome and I agree with you.
[+] [-] nightfly|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] teekert|5 years ago|reply
Btw, if you work on MacOS (which has been a while for me now), you get very used to hitting space everywhere to get previews. What a feature!
[+] [-] therealmarv|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] city41|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] swebs|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vetinari|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] another_kel|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sergeykish|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] still_grokking|5 years ago|reply
They refuse since over a decade to implement some generic way to open the file-picker native to the running DE. They force their garbage usability on everybody, even people that would prefer not to use "anything Gnome". Same issue with CSDs, by the way.
Like I said: They can have their broken stuff at their place if they prefer it like that. But it's utterly antisocial to force that stuff on everybody without any opt-out possibility. They even actively and deliberately break and remove configuration options. That's just not OK.
[+] [-] pndy|5 years ago|reply
KDE has own sins as well - they removed ability of running Dolphin as root giving some vague arguments about security and users protection, while other DE allows running their file managers with highest rights without any walkarounds nor weird acrobatics. I've seen some Plasma addons restoring this feature but it seems it doesn't work on my Manjaro at all.
[+] [-] arendtio|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Spivak|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] LeoPanthera|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xuhu|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] skynet-9000|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] apricot|5 years ago|reply
Are we sure GNOME developers aren't some kind of agents provocateurs working against free software?
[+] [-] tsjq|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Mockapapella|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rtpg|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] swebs|5 years ago|reply
https://github.com/Dudemanguy/gtk
[+] [-] johannes1234321|5 years ago|reply
(From scrolling offer the discussion I can in parts see the architectural constraints they have and can image they have other priorities ...)
[+] [-] zapzupnz|5 years ago|reply
On Windows, when you drag a file into an Open or Save panel, the dragged file is moved from its original location to the panel’s current directory. It is a destructive action!
That may be one little thing but it’s part of a whole number of reasons why I dislike using Windows. Alas, all the counter arguments to any and all reason I might give for preferring macOS do sound like toilet-plunging family members.
[+] [-] CarVac|5 years ago|reply
For my photo editor Filmulator I resolved to not add features that haven't had the UI fully thought through. For a while it meant it was definitely subpar capability-wise, but now that it's approaching feature completeness it means that it's actually intuitive and streamlined to use.
[+] [-] scotty79|5 years ago|reply
I was always wondering why Gnome is so weird and broken. Why does it exist? Who uses it? I found out when I got my hands on first Macbook in my life. While KDE mirrors Windows, Gnome mirrored some version of MacOS. Using MacOS was as horrible for me as using Gnome. A lot of basic features that I took for granted in Windows and KDE were missing or hidden so weirdly that I couldn't find them without googling. And I had to google each time I needed them because placement was so weird that my brain just refused to remember something this stupid. And yet some people used Macs, liked Macs, adjusted their daily routines to work with something that for me was missing basic functionality. And praising it! "Of course! That's how it works! That's what the plunger is for! That's completely intuitive!"
M1 chip might be all the rage but I refuse to touch Mac again till their os gets decent free window manager and file manager as alternative. Same way I'm not touching Gnome.
[+] [-] johnchristopher|5 years ago|reply
Yeah but when you go to the downstairs toilet you can't bring in your favourite newspaper because the paper its printed on isn't compatible with the light bulb and you can't read it.
Firefox on KDE uses the GTK filepicker. No thumbnails.
[+] [-] userbinator|5 years ago|reply
What’s the point of doing a whole upgrade of the GTK toolkit while ignoring this problem?
An unfortunate consequence of the incessant trendchasing that has taken hold of the software industry, closed and open source alike. Frankly, I am as puzzled as the article author how solving existing problems is somehow shunned in favour of ignoring them and making "new things"... which usually tends to just create more new problems instead. No one seems to value stability and the strive toward perfection anymore. This phenomenon has been ascribed to "resume driven development", but I'm not sure if that is completely responsible for it.
[+] [-] therealmarv|5 years ago|reply
XFCE and KDE both do a better job than GNOME in this regard. And also Windows Explorer was and is much much better in this area.
[+] [-] jancsika|5 years ago|reply
If I open my laptop after being logged in, I can just start typing my password and the login manager does the right thing: "Hey, he's probably typing a password. Let's throw it into the password widget and see what happens..."
I'm on an XPS running Ubuntu 20.04.
Who implemented that feature? It's a great ergonomic feature and improves the UX of logging in so much.
[+] [-] danShumway|5 years ago|reply
I'm at least somewhat with the author in general, but this is a case of "grass is always greener" syndrome. I made a full switch to Linux from Windows in no small part because of issues just like this, I got tired of OneNote completely breaking on my Surface. Even on much more polished operating systems -- Mac's window snapping is still inexplicably awful for, as far as I can tell, no reason at all except that Apple refuses to copy the simple model that both Windows and Gnome adopted. We tolerate it. I purchased a 3rd-party program to replicate the functionality, and it sometimes works.
A more drastic example, my proprietary router won't let me set a custom DNS server at the router level. It has an option to do so, but it doesn't do anything, and this is an open bug that people complained about for years that was just... ignored. And eventually they pushed a fix for it that broke everyone's routers and required manual rollback.
If something isn't a showstopper, sometimes it just gets ignored in general. Has nothing to do with whether or not it's free software, and everything to do with whether or not somebody somewhere cares enough to fix it.
[+] [-] londons_explore|5 years ago|reply
It's such a shame, because fixing most of these small bugs is far less work than building new features. Nobody wants to put the work in though... Nobody has the overarching vision of a consistent UX that just works out of the box without oddities, quirks and workarounds.
[+] [-] p1necone|5 years ago|reply
I think "use KDE" is perfectly valid advice here too. The toilet analogy doesn't really hold, your satisfaction of software that works for you shouldn't be at all affected by the existence of software you don't like and don't use, that's just silly.