I don't understand all this harsh judgement, especially from the HN crowd.
Who are you to say what he should or shouldn't do? He essentially died from a freak accident that couldn't be predicted ahead of time.
Telling him that he shouldn't do something because he's married with children is like someone telling you you shouldn't pursue a dream (whether that be climbing a mountain or trying an innovative startup with a high chance of failure) just because you happen to be married.
You don't know his situation. I don't know his situation.
Can't we just stop this judging and simply feel bad about an unfortunate death?
Same situation with Rob Hall in 1996 (a very bad and very famous season on Everest) and his 7 month pregnant wife Jan Arnold. She was also a climber and physician who had submitted Everest with Hall in the past. He called her via sat phone from the summit to say goodbye.
This comment makes me extremely angry. Do you know anything about this man or his family? Do you know anything about the reasons that he was climbing the mountain?
"To date, there have been 1,924 ascents of Mount Everest (more than 1,300 different climbers), and 179 people have died. The overall fatality rate is thus about 9% (fatality rate is defined as successful summits compared to fatalities). However, since 1990 there has been an explosion of summiteers and fatality statistics have changed. Up to 1990, the Everest fatality rate is a whopping 37%, with 106 deaths and only 284 summits. Yet from 1990 until today, the rate has dropped to 4.4%; 73 people have died, and 1,640 have summited. Thus, the rate decreased to about eight times less than the pre-1990 fatality rate!"
Can't reach the page, but the submission title made me want to share an on-topic book recommendation - Into Thin Air: A Personal Account of the Mount Everest Disaster, by Jon Krakauer. [1] It's a very sad, but thrilling, account of a catastrophic journey up Everest.
It is a great book. Sadly, the hostile reaction toward the Everest climbers expressed after the disaster seems to also be present in many of the comments on this thread.
I think most would agree that climbing Everest (with a young kids) represents poor judgment.
Sometimes I wonder if various acts of greatness are often made possible by the person having a "blind spot". Maybe starting Intrade was equally stupid.
Generally I think of this mostly for entrepreneurs and fiction authors.
I have yet to meet anyone who started a company and is not a little crazy, and a little less risk-averse than most.
Where do you draw the line for acceptable behavior? Is flying a plane OK? Riding a motorcycle? Skydiving? Having an extra helping of dessert?
Hell, starting a company is a risk and takes a toll on a family.
Whenever you read a tragic story like this, you try to think of all the reasons it couldn't happen to you.
He spun the dice, maybe a little harder than most, and he lost. You could draw an unlucky card tomorrow driving in your car, or get cancer from your cell phone.
If you don't want to spin the dice that hard, you don't have to, I know I wouldn't. Some people have the need to go to the limit. They shouldn't put others at risk. But if he was a CEO and reasonably prudent, the family is, I hope, well-provided for. If he loved them, and he did that and died doing something he loved, bad break and a life well lived.
Hoping the best for his family. I posted on HN 4 days ago (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2592958) about it and it got no attention until today with this new submission. Really rather unfortunate.
There is a time and place for everything, so we are told. personally, I believe that HN is not the place for this. And if HN is now the place for this, then perhaps HN's time has now passed.
Other people's personal lives are their own. They make their choices, the people they share their lives with share their choices, by choice or otherwise.
Leave them alone. Leave it alone. Go build something useful.
I am not sad for him personally. We all die, he chose his time and place. Attempting to summit Everest is meaningful in part because one out of every ten climbers making the final push doesn't make it home alive.
Compare and contrast his death to Bob Parsons' cowardly choice of shooting an elephant. Bob was never in any meaningful danger, where is the courage in killing an animal that can't shoot back?
John Delaney left behind two sons and a pregnant wife pursuing a meaningless accomplishment. Bob Parsons killed an elephant who was destroying crops and fed an African village.
I'm troubled by your use of "meaningful" in describing danger. Danger is not meaningful in itself. An act does not become meaningful because 10% of the people who attempt it die. Acts are meaningful based on their impact on the world around them. Ascending the summit of Everest is ultimately meaningless; killing an elephant who was destroying crops and feeding an African village is quite meaningful.
Ironically, the odds on an InTrade bet might have warned him that he was not expected to survive. The crowdsourced research about conditions and the likely physical ability of Mr. Delaney would have exceeded his own and might have led him to delay or reconsider the trip.
From what I've read of his death, it sounds like he was killed by high-altitude cerebral edema. (Swelling caused by altitude-induced blood leakage within the brain) HACE is essentially impossible to predict. Fit, healthy, experienced climbers die every year from HACE, often with almost no warning. It is unfortunately a risk you take when climbing extreme heights like Everest.
I'm unconvinced that this is relevant unless the markets you're talking about have a history of accurately predicting random or chaotic systems like weather :P
A lot of the decision points for whether to go on or turn back have to be made in the short term on the mountain.
It is too dangerous to try and recover bodies. At those altitudes your body is doing everything it can to survive and the margin for error is nearly zero.
I don't think anyone here is taking delight in his judgement, where did you read that? It seems like many posters here can't comprehend why a human being would play Russian roulette knowing that they have two children and one in the womb.
I can't judge. Everyone dies, but not many die awesome. The sad fact is that even though he died tragically young, he still probably provided far more both in money and example for his kids than I will be able to manage with a lifetime of cautious mediocrity.
I think the drive in people who push boundaries between what is safe and what is dangerous is beneficial to overall human survival. It puts us more in control of the surrounding natural environments.
We all take survival risks. I wouldn't climb Everest but I do ride a motorcycle and scuba dive. Both hobbies do add survival risks for only enjoying life more.
[+] [-] pessimist|15 years ago|reply
Overall death rate for Everest climbers is pretty close to 3% - pretty high (although its been falling).
Edit: 3% is for climbers above base camp - for summit climbers its close to 10%! According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Mount_Everest_disaster
[+] [-] pradocchia|15 years ago|reply
Not to mention two sons, two and three years old respectively. There is a season of life for climbing mountains. This was not it.
[+] [-] kloncks|15 years ago|reply
Who are you to say what he should or shouldn't do? He essentially died from a freak accident that couldn't be predicted ahead of time.
Telling him that he shouldn't do something because he's married with children is like someone telling you you shouldn't pursue a dream (whether that be climbing a mountain or trying an innovative startup with a high chance of failure) just because you happen to be married.
You don't know his situation. I don't know his situation.
Can't we just stop this judging and simply feel bad about an unfortunate death?
[+] [-] peterbraden|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mmaunder|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sdoowpilihp|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yelsgib|15 years ago|reply
Disrespectful in the extreme.
[+] [-] poundy|15 years ago|reply
I believe this is exactly why he is the CEO of a popular company and others like me are not. He takes risks most of us avoid for various reasons!
[+] [-] pitdesi|15 years ago|reply
http://www.mounteverest.net/story/MountEverestKillerMountain...
"To date, there have been 1,924 ascents of Mount Everest (more than 1,300 different climbers), and 179 people have died. The overall fatality rate is thus about 9% (fatality rate is defined as successful summits compared to fatalities). However, since 1990 there has been an explosion of summiteers and fatality statistics have changed. Up to 1990, the Everest fatality rate is a whopping 37%, with 106 deaths and only 284 summits. Yet from 1990 until today, the rate has dropped to 4.4%; 73 people have died, and 1,640 have summited. Thus, the rate decreased to about eight times less than the pre-1990 fatality rate!"
[+] [-] TheAmazingIdiot|15 years ago|reply
I will give you the benefit of the doubt, but that is a horrible pun.
[+] [-] mrspeaker|15 years ago|reply
I guess everyone who goes there knows the dangers, and would be prepared for the worst.
[+] [-] slouch|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thret|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] joshklein|15 years ago|reply
[1] http://www.amazon.com/Into-Thin-Air-Personal-Disaster/dp/067...
[+] [-] bmj|15 years ago|reply
[1] http://www.amazon.com/Climb-Tragic-Ambitions-Everest/dp/0312...
[+] [-] gamble|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jpdoctor|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] grandalf|15 years ago|reply
Sometimes I wonder if various acts of greatness are often made possible by the person having a "blind spot". Maybe starting Intrade was equally stupid.
Generally I think of this mostly for entrepreneurs and fiction authors.
[+] [-] RockyMcNuts|15 years ago|reply
I have yet to meet anyone who started a company and is not a little crazy, and a little less risk-averse than most.
Where do you draw the line for acceptable behavior? Is flying a plane OK? Riding a motorcycle? Skydiving? Having an extra helping of dessert?
Hell, starting a company is a risk and takes a toll on a family.
Whenever you read a tragic story like this, you try to think of all the reasons it couldn't happen to you.
He spun the dice, maybe a little harder than most, and he lost. You could draw an unlucky card tomorrow driving in your car, or get cancer from your cell phone.
If you don't want to spin the dice that hard, you don't have to, I know I wouldn't. Some people have the need to go to the limit. They shouldn't put others at risk. But if he was a CEO and reasonably prudent, the family is, I hope, well-provided for. If he loved them, and he did that and died doing something he loved, bad break and a life well lived.
[+] [-] william42|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jedc|15 years ago|reply
And here's one from the Freakonomics blog: http://www.freakonomics.com/2011/05/24/r-i-p-john-delaney-pr...
[+] [-] tibbon|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ColinWright|15 years ago|reply
Other people's personal lives are their own. They make their choices, the people they share their lives with share their choices, by choice or otherwise.
Leave them alone. Leave it alone. Go build something useful.
[+] [-] caf|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Hisoka|15 years ago|reply
This sorta stuff needs to be discussed
[+] [-] raganwald|15 years ago|reply
Compare and contrast his death to Bob Parsons' cowardly choice of shooting an elephant. Bob was never in any meaningful danger, where is the courage in killing an animal that can't shoot back?
I am sorry for his family's loss.
[+] [-] jemfinch|15 years ago|reply
I'm troubled by your use of "meaningful" in describing danger. Danger is not meaningful in itself. An act does not become meaningful because 10% of the people who attempt it die. Acts are meaningful based on their impact on the world around them. Ascending the summit of Everest is ultimately meaningless; killing an elephant who was destroying crops and feeding an African village is quite meaningful.
[+] [-] VMG|15 years ago|reply
How does that make it more meaningful? Does the fact that it can be deadly make playing russian roulette meaningful too then?
[+] [-] johncollins|15 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] jameskilton|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] michaeldhopkins|15 years ago|reply
Ironically, the odds on an InTrade bet might have warned him that he was not expected to survive. The crowdsourced research about conditions and the likely physical ability of Mr. Delaney would have exceeded his own and might have led him to delay or reconsider the trip.
[+] [-] gamble|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] knowtheory|15 years ago|reply
A lot of the decision points for whether to go on or turn back have to be made in the short term on the mountain.
[+] [-] pier0|15 years ago|reply
If you want to understand more how high-altitude climbers think, this makes for a perfect read: http://www.amazon.com/Above-Clouds-Diaries-High-Altitude-Mou...
[+] [-] golgo13|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bcl|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jedc|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] localhost3000|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] watty|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] noonespecial|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ck2|15 years ago|reply
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1978295
How about running a marathon instead. Or is that not expensive enough?
[+] [-] JabavuAdams|15 years ago|reply
For those whose greatest ambition (confirmed by their actions) is to be a responsible parent, great!
The reality for actual parents is that parenting is a constant struggle between one's ambitions and one's responsibilites.
Yes, this is an extreme case, but how is this much more selfish than parents who get divorced?
One might argue that if a father cannot always and in all conditions put the children first, he should not be a father.
I'd argue that this is overly simplistic. Honestly and strictly applied, it would mean that we'd almost never reproduce.
[+] [-] moo|15 years ago|reply
We all take survival risks. I wouldn't climb Everest but I do ride a motorcycle and scuba dive. Both hobbies do add survival risks for only enjoying life more.
[+] [-] unknown|15 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] benatkin|15 years ago|reply
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrade#Death_of_CEO
[+] [-] cincinnatus|15 years ago|reply
In that order.