It's not a UBI experiment until the taxation part of the equation is also included in the experiment. Injecting outside money like manna from heaven is not UBI
I'm not sure that partial experiments which test none of the putative downsides are of much benefit to a debate though.
I certainly would contest, for example, the suggestion that Neil Armstrong walking on a sidewalk would have represented a moonwalking experiment, because we didn't need to experiment to learn that astronauts are capable of perambulation on earth or learn anything about low gravity from it. Similarly, if you wish to test the hypothesis that a welfare state would be best reorganized on the to each irrespective of his need principle with taxes adjusted accordingly, you're not creating evidence for it by learning that unusually poor people are better off after receiving one off windfall of $7500.
The assumption that poor people are better off with more money is already baked into the status quo solution.
I believe the person you're responding to is saying that increased taxation is such a necessary component of any UBI system that any test which doesn't take that into account is flawed.
Agreed. People love socialism so much until they live inside a socialist country. They believe the mantra you will be able to receive without giving, everybody doing what they love, how better it will be spending time doing music or whatever you love doing.
UBI is only possible if you have taxes way higher than social-democracies in Europe with the current economy we have. The reality is that the economy will tank with UBI and taxes would be higher and higher.
Productive people like me will instantly move to a free country where UBI is not applied. That is where Universal in U comes. They want to force the entire world doing that, so people productive can't escape.
It is nothing new, it was done by the first Christians or communists promising the lala land. In Russia they promised people will do whatever they wanted with their time after people give in.
In reality the moment it was applied in Russia, forced labor was applied, and they took all your money and a terrible dictatorship followed.
In the first Christian communities, they will take all your money first, as you had to sell everything you had for entering the community. Then as St Paul said, the one that does not work does not eat, from the money they had already taken from you.
The experiment has been repeated so many times in the past only people that ignore History would love to repeat it.
Right now, UBI idea comes from the financial elite. They want all your wealth, your autonomy and the power that comes from it.
robotresearcher|5 years ago
Missions before Apollo 11 were not moon landing experiments because they didn't land on the moon.
Projects before ITER (hopes to be) are not nuclear fusion power experiments because the reaction is not self-sustaining.
Movie previews aren't audience reaction experiments if the audience didn't pay for the tickets.
Or are partial experiments to learn something in fact reasonable, normal and necessary?
notahacker|5 years ago
I certainly would contest, for example, the suggestion that Neil Armstrong walking on a sidewalk would have represented a moonwalking experiment, because we didn't need to experiment to learn that astronauts are capable of perambulation on earth or learn anything about low gravity from it. Similarly, if you wish to test the hypothesis that a welfare state would be best reorganized on the to each irrespective of his need principle with taxes adjusted accordingly, you're not creating evidence for it by learning that unusually poor people are better off after receiving one off windfall of $7500. The assumption that poor people are better off with more money is already baked into the status quo solution.
BitwiseFool|5 years ago
bumbada|5 years ago
UBI is only possible if you have taxes way higher than social-democracies in Europe with the current economy we have. The reality is that the economy will tank with UBI and taxes would be higher and higher.
Productive people like me will instantly move to a free country where UBI is not applied. That is where Universal in U comes. They want to force the entire world doing that, so people productive can't escape.
It is nothing new, it was done by the first Christians or communists promising the lala land. In Russia they promised people will do whatever they wanted with their time after people give in.
In reality the moment it was applied in Russia, forced labor was applied, and they took all your money and a terrible dictatorship followed.
In the first Christian communities, they will take all your money first, as you had to sell everything you had for entering the community. Then as St Paul said, the one that does not work does not eat, from the money they had already taken from you.
The experiment has been repeated so many times in the past only people that ignore History would love to repeat it.
Right now, UBI idea comes from the financial elite. They want all your wealth, your autonomy and the power that comes from it.