I have no sympathy for miners, but purely from software freedom perspective this is maximally evil: closed-source software that decides what you can use your hardware for.
The CMP version is a straight-to-landfill product. As soon as it stops being profitable for mining it will have zero resale value, and become e-waste.
> The CMP version is a straight-to-landfill product. As soon as it stops being profitable for mining it will have zero resale value, and become e-waste.
Like literally every other piece of Bitcoin or crypto mining technology. It’s straight to the landfill every 6 months.
Bitcoin generates 100 GRAMS of ewaste for every transaction. Every 2 transactions consumes as much energy as driving a Tesla from SF to NY [edit for clarity: round trip] and as much ewaste as throwing your phone out the window along the way.
Don’t hate the player; hate the game. Nvidia is maximizing shareholder value as per their charter, creating differentiated product offerings for different segments. Quadro, RTX, CMP. It’s all segmentation, and better, likely binning. I wonder if CMP products are just failed RTX and Quadro parts they’re offloading. For every card Nvidia doesn’t sell, Ant will sell 2 ASIC miners.
Time to push back on proof of waste, and end the economic incentive.
Imagine the PlayStation was able to be used to mine crypto. Game developers depend on gamers to actually play their games, what would you have Sony do? Encourage it or do nothing? Pretty sure their obligations to any shareholders would be to limit it so more gamers can play and buy games for it.
Yeah, imagine if this applied to trucks. No one could use one for non truck bed usage. Ford disables ignition if it detects the bed is empty after X concurrent uses or miles.
Trucks generally are often wasted (from a green perspective) because people like them not for their intended design utility.
Gamers will generally try to avoid buying preowned graphics cards that have been used for mining. Running them 24/7 at full pelt tends to “age” they quicker than one that’s just been used for gaming.
> The CMP version is a straight-to-landfill product. As soon as it stops being profitable for mining it will have zero resale value, and become e-waste.
You are aware that this already happens to BTC ASICs when the new generation of ASIC comes out, right? Straight to the landfill. BTC is very wasteful, this is not new.
Agree on the "evil" part (or maybe "irritating"), but if I recall correctly from a few years ago, Nvidia has done this before with full access to the encoder only being available in the Quadro line.
It's only evil if you believe in absolute software freedom. But in reality NVidia is perfectly within its rights to apply differential pricing for people who want to play games, and those who want to mine bitcoin.
Who can really blame NVidia for this? The actual target market for these products, gamers and the lower end graphics professionals, have been plagued by supply issues. In the long term NVidia stands more to gain by providing consistent supply.
NVIDIA should instead just require people to take an exam about either games or machine learning in order to be able to purchase a GPU. Problem solved.
As the counter point, I, as a consumer of a GPU for non-mining purposes, appreciates the effort so demand is reduced for a product by a certain market segment - and thus allows the price to not be influenced by the demand of a decentralized, global MLM scheme.
Also, you just don't buy that hardware - so it's not "what you can use your hardware for" - unless they're retroactively updating drivers to prevent the same use of already purchased projects.
I'd argue your concern is an issue only due to patents that may prevent a competitor from coming in and making a competing product if the main producers are engaging in bad behaviours.
Edit to add: I love the downvotes - they're such a strong way to sway someone's thoughts on something, so much effort gets put into clicking a downvote too - it must be serious business!
If it has CUDA support it might make sense post-hashing for a cheap deep learning setup. I have two P106-100s (last gen "mining-only" cards) that were very cheap (compared to a GTX 1060) secondhand. The only hit is in PCI-E bandwidth if they decide to go with nerfed PCI-E 1.1 only.
Will CMP versions really be so single use as to be only good for mining?
I want to know if I could use one as a second card for 3D rendering. Although I guess the render farm people will know about that and suck those all up...
I am hoping to repurpose the gpu/cmp for a hashcat rig once cards no longer provide income for miners. I fear I no longer will be able to use GPUs for this, and are crossing my fingers for cmps
first they came for the miners... As Nvidia opens itself to those games, i can see how Russia or China say would legislate for the drivers to have to refuse to run say specific crypto algorithms or specific neural nets training if it includes specific names, terms, phrases.
"RTX 3060 software drivers are designed to detect specific attributes of the Ethereum cryptocurrency mining algorithm, and limit the hash rate, or cryptocurrency mining efficiency, by around 50 percent."
open source drivers have been long due. Now there is real $Billions staked on that need.
Yes. I am using Nvidia GPU even though I know it's so non-free, so unfriendly to the point Linus gave the middle finger and all. But I thought it's okay since I were to use it for proprietary video games anyway. But I have never thought they are this evil. With this move, Nvidia products are forever included in my boycott list.
Not a fan of miners disturbing GPU availability and pricing but this is a bad move. It’s not an engineering move, it’s a marketing move, and I’m sure the first attempt at doing this will come down to something just as shallow like a PCI PID check or some resistor strap check. Someone will find it worth the cost to make an FPGA based PCIe bridge that responds to the right knocks in the right way.
GPU mining is going to become much less attractive this year due to Ethereum moving to Proof of Stake, right?
If this is the case (perhaps an expert can chime in) - it makes sense to limit the hash rate now, to prevent these cards being dumped later this year? And to redirect miners towards higher-margin products in the meantime, whilst ensuring better supply for gamers (who are the actual long-term customers).
Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half (nvidia.com) 454 points by bcatanzaro 2 days ago | flag | hide | past | favorite | 731 comments
At some point nvidia would be better off mining with these gpus than selling them.
The oddest solution I can think of is gamers lease graphics cards at a low low price and nvidia mines on them in the off-hours. With a big enough operation they could force all the other miners into becoming resellers. It's free, distributed electricity and it gets the gamers off their backs.
(While I have your attention, I'm pretty sure proof of work is the paperclip maximizer sci fi warned us about.)
I don't think Nvidia (or most companies) should be deciding what to do with the tools they sell. I don't want someone telling me what software I can run with my CPU or GPU any more than I want someone telling me what I am allowed to build with the hammers or screwdrivers I buy.
Fuck miners. They drove the cost of the 1000 series cards up when btc peaked at 14k. Then the 2000 series was the same price as when the btc peaked. Now the 3080 is selling at 2000+ euros.
Been trying to build a PC for my daughter for weeks now, waiting for just a half decent GPU to become available. You can't find the 16*, 20*, or of course the 30* line of Nvidia available anywhere (except overpriced on Ebay), it's nuts.
I'm not in a rush or I'd just buy a prebuilt PC which you can still find with these cards, but I wanted to show my daughter how to build a PC. Guess it will be a few more months...
I am happy with this kind of heavy handed move for once if this is intended to reduce demand for graphics products for their other uses and make them available for people who intend to use them for work and gaming.
Maybe I will finally be able to afford top of the line GPU.
I mean, bitcoin miners can still pay high prices if they want but finally there will be GPU that will not be encumbered by mining craze.
The GPU market at this point is supply limited. There is not much else NVIDIA can do at this point besides trying to cripple their products for mining if they want gamers to have any supply. Since this all depends on their signatures not being circumvented, I suspect it wont last too long.
As for the mining specific cards, all that ensures is that there will be swats of silicon that will never be accessible for gamers. That they try to spin this part as pro-gamer is very cynical.
> The company also limited the mining performance of the soon-to-be-launched RTX 3060 cards to roughly 50% of the normal performance
What does that mean? What has NVIDIA actually done on those cards? Also, if this doesn't effect 3050, 70, 80 , Ti's, Quadro's and Tesla's - does it really matter all that much?
Somewhat related, you can still find reasonably priced pre-built computers with latest-gen graphics cards. If you're in the market for an entirely new computer, this would be the cost-effective way to go. The HP Omen is one example (stock is still there from 3rd parties, but admittedly limited).
Probably not the main reason and may not even be a reason. But this seems like it would work as a clever way not to have the market flooded with older (but still very capable) graphics cards once the value of them in a mining rig stops making sense.
[+] [-] pornel|5 years ago|reply
The CMP version is a straight-to-landfill product. As soon as it stops being profitable for mining it will have zero resale value, and become e-waste.
[+] [-] arcticbull|5 years ago|reply
Like literally every other piece of Bitcoin or crypto mining technology. It’s straight to the landfill every 6 months.
Bitcoin generates 100 GRAMS of ewaste for every transaction. Every 2 transactions consumes as much energy as driving a Tesla from SF to NY [edit for clarity: round trip] and as much ewaste as throwing your phone out the window along the way.
Don’t hate the player; hate the game. Nvidia is maximizing shareholder value as per their charter, creating differentiated product offerings for different segments. Quadro, RTX, CMP. It’s all segmentation, and better, likely binning. I wonder if CMP products are just failed RTX and Quadro parts they’re offloading. For every card Nvidia doesn’t sell, Ant will sell 2 ASIC miners.
Time to push back on proof of waste, and end the economic incentive.
[+] [-] m3kw9|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] social_quotient|5 years ago|reply
Trucks generally are often wasted (from a green perspective) because people like them not for their intended design utility.
Same for single passenger SUV usage etc...
(I drive an SUV - not trolling those that do)
[+] [-] lwhi|5 years ago|reply
Provide a better product for mining .. don't cripple what's out there.
This feels similar to when Nurofen tried to repackage generic drugs for different types of pain. I.e. ultimately a branding exercise.
--
Edit: spelling and s/paracetamol/generic drugs
[+] [-] oakesm9|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] quickthrowman|5 years ago|reply
You are aware that this already happens to BTC ASICs when the new generation of ASIC comes out, right? Straight to the landfill. BTC is very wasteful, this is not new.
[+] [-] logicchop|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] A12-B|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sonthonax|5 years ago|reply
Who can really blame NVidia for this? The actual target market for these products, gamers and the lower end graphics professionals, have been plagued by supply issues. In the long term NVidia stands more to gain by providing consistent supply.
[+] [-] dheera|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vsareto|5 years ago|reply
There's lots of old graphics cards no one sells or buys as well
[+] [-] daniel-thompson|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] loceng|5 years ago|reply
Also, you just don't buy that hardware - so it's not "what you can use your hardware for" - unless they're retroactively updating drivers to prevent the same use of already purchased projects.
I'd argue your concern is an issue only due to patents that may prevent a competitor from coming in and making a competing product if the main producers are engaging in bad behaviours.
Edit to add: I love the downvotes - they're such a strong way to sway someone's thoughts on something, so much effort gets put into clicking a downvote too - it must be serious business!
[+] [-] tyingq|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] martinald|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tgsovlerkhgsel|5 years ago|reply
Could it possibly even be usable as a second card in a SLI setup?
[+] [-] loser777|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] _carbyau_|5 years ago|reply
I want to know if I could use one as a second card for 3D rendering. Although I guess the render farm people will know about that and suck those all up...
[+] [-] hoppla|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] Havoc|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ta988|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] boulos|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 2OEH8eoCRo0|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 29athrowaway|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] trhway|5 years ago|reply
"RTX 3060 software drivers are designed to detect specific attributes of the Ethereum cryptocurrency mining algorithm, and limit the hash rate, or cryptocurrency mining efficiency, by around 50 percent."
open source drivers have been long due. Now there is real $Billions staked on that need.
[+] [-] ezoe|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] qqii|5 years ago|reply
Also on reddit: (Linus from Linus Tech Tip's Take, I'd reccomended watching this one) https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/locpyb/nvidia_pre...
(Initial Article) https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/lmnpag/geforce_is...
(Clarification that the restrictions in driver+firmware) https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/lnf78f/nvidia_gef...
https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/lnrgdc/cryptomini...
https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/lng4q4/nvidia_has...
https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/lmqd56/nvidia_ner...
https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/lmom3w/nvidia_is_...
(Initial Leak) https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/lmrsrj/zotac_gefo...
[+] [-] ianhanschen|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ArkanExplorer|5 years ago|reply
If this is the case (perhaps an expert can chime in) - it makes sense to limit the hash rate now, to prevent these cards being dumped later this year? And to redirect miners towards higher-margin products in the meantime, whilst ensuring better supply for gamers (who are the actual long-term customers).
[+] [-] WalterGR|5 years ago|reply
Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half (nvidia.com) 454 points by bcatanzaro 2 days ago | flag | hide | past | favorite | 731 comments
There are 30-ish more submissions here: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastWeek&page=1&prefix=tru...
[+] [-] somehnrdr14726|5 years ago|reply
The oddest solution I can think of is gamers lease graphics cards at a low low price and nvidia mines on them in the off-hours. With a big enough operation they could force all the other miners into becoming resellers. It's free, distributed electricity and it gets the gamers off their backs.
(While I have your attention, I'm pretty sure proof of work is the paperclip maximizer sci fi warned us about.)
[+] [-] ddtaylor|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mseidl|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nikeee|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] anothernewdude|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] victor9000|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dvdkon|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] legohead|5 years ago|reply
I'm not in a rush or I'd just buy a prebuilt PC which you can still find with these cards, but I wanted to show my daughter how to build a PC. Guess it will be a few more months...
[+] [-] lmilcin|5 years ago|reply
Maybe I will finally be able to afford top of the line GPU.
I mean, bitcoin miners can still pay high prices if they want but finally there will be GPU that will not be encumbered by mining craze.
[+] [-] fortran77|5 years ago|reply
However, I'd always be suspicious of my "crippled" GPU
[+] [-] radium3d|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] PeterStuer|5 years ago|reply
As for the mining specific cards, all that ensures is that there will be swats of silicon that will never be accessible for gamers. That they try to spin this part as pro-gamer is very cynical.
[+] [-] einpoklum|5 years ago|reply
What does that mean? What has NVIDIA actually done on those cards? Also, if this doesn't effect 3050, 70, 80 , Ti's, Quadro's and Tesla's - does it really matter all that much?
[+] [-] unknown|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] asxd|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ranguna|5 years ago|reply
The only real problem is e-waste.
[+] [-] almost|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] liquidify|5 years ago|reply