Our two children are 4 and 6, and they both hold four citizenships.
My wife is US American, I am German, my dad is Croatian and we've been living in Switzerland for almost 15 years.
When the kids were born, they both had US and German citizenship jus sanguinis. German passports arrived almost instantaneously. The US passports required us to visit the US embassy multiple times and fill out plenty of paper work.
Them gaining Croatian citizenship was more involved. First I needed to apply for it for myself through my dad. I also bought a second home in Croatia were we've spent most of our holidays. I also maintain a Croatian bank account that I use to cover local bills. It took several years and a good lawyer to get passed the beaucracy. Ultimately I received the Croatian passport and so did our children about half a year later.
After staying for over 10 years in Switzerland, my wife, my kids and I applied for Swiss citizenship. It cost us a couple of thousand US dollars, a clean record (no outstanding bills, no other credit issues, proof that you can take financial care of the family), proof of "proper integration" (like do I frequently visit the local pub... really!), a German language proficiency test for my wife, and a test for both of us showing that we understand the cultural, religious and political aspects of Swiss society. The process took exactly one year when we received our passports.
Was it all worth it? I think so. It is a liberating feeling to know that you can move between countries. We also wanted our kids to be able to choose for themselves where to live once they are grown up.
From what I understand of German law, all of you may have lost your German citizenship, depending on how you handled the Croatian and Swiss paperwork - Germany allows for dual citizenship at birth, however, obtaining any other citizenship means loss of German citizenship unless you have obtained a specific “Beibehaltungsgenehmigung” permit beforehand; so the German passports you have might be legally not valid if you haven't filed for and obtained this permit in both cases (which you hopefully have done).
Sorry for the issues with the travesty called the Croatian citizenship law. They are too busy not accidentally giving citizenship to the "wrong" people.
I will vote, no questions asked, for any party proposing a Law of Return for passports, no matter where the person intends to live.
As for the Swiss immigration officials, they are very competent, but I've gotten the impression they always want me to leave back where I came from. I love Switzerland anyway.
> It took several years and a good lawyer to get passed the beaucracy. Ultimately I received the Croatian passport and so did our children about half a year later.
Yeah, it is always advisable to get a Croatian lawyer when applying for Croatian citizenship, for example, even if you know exactly what you are doing.
Croatian law allows for loose arbitrary interpretations of the law by government servants in the bureaucracy. Even if you covered all of your bases and you did everything right, a lawyer stops such issues. Plus, Croatian law regulates exactly how much Croatian lawyers can charge, so it is not bad.
While my citizenship application went smoothly, even without the Croatian lawyer's assistance: If I were applying for US citizenship, for example, I would certainly use a lawyer, although for a different set of reasons. This is something to keep in mind for anyone considering emigrating anywhere, as the stakes can be high.
How is this legal? Most countries in the world disallow holding more than 2 citizenships. Do these countries know your kids are holding four? If they do not, they need to be informed.
My parent moved with us to USA, when I was 18. That's my dark blue passport.
When I was working as Software engineer in California, our company got aquired and they asked us to relocate to Canada. I got PR here and soon will have light blue passport here.
Personal thoughts:
USA citizenship gives me best opportunities and access to best job market.
Canada citizenship gives me best social net: free health care, lower-cost education for my kids.
Russian citizenship gives me hope of protection from western injustice system (Snowden-style) or left cancel culture.
I'm doing the opposite. I'm an American now living in Russia and will apply for long term residency then may apply for citizenship at some point once my language skills are better. I joke with my wife that in return for the green card I helped her earn, she helps me get a red card.
Russia has very low taxes for contractors, so that combined with the American foreign earned income tax credit results in tremendous tax savings. Also, I'm on the Black Sea so the weather is better than the rest of Russia. Downside is the political situation, obviously.
A second passport for a country that doesn't have an extradition treaty with the first, or better yet, an "enemy state", is a literal get-out-of-jail-free card.
Russia is not exactly a country conducive to unfettered freedom of speech. What are you afraid of getting "cancelled"? Does your Russian passport exempt you from a Twitter ban for spreading misinformation?
I am a dual citizen of the United States and Croatia (European Union citizen). I am culturally American, and I have spent the vast majority of my life in the US.
I left the US about a month before the lockdowns started. I have been living in Croatia for the past year. I can technically live/work/retire in any EU/EFTA country (minus Lichtenstein--has an immigration quota), due to having Freedom of Movement rights. In a lot of ways the world is my oyster.
Being a dual citizen has some unique advantages: I can also work a US based job, remotely in the EU, completely legally. I have pretty severe health problems, so being able to work remotely in the EU for a US based company is a huge deal. I just have to get the US based employer to agree to use a payroll company as an intermediary to deal with payroll taxes. Obviously I forfeit EU workers' rights.
But, it is way, way, less stressful living here, just in general. Americans have no idea. The taxes are worth the peace of mind along with the stability it gives society.
I naturalized as Croatian only for the right to healthcare: I have 2 rare immune-mediated neurological diseases affecting my peripheral nervous system, which is in remission. I require many unusual treatments and medications, which are difficult to access in the US, for a variety of reasons. Some of these interventions are life-and-death.
I was curious about freedom of travel benefits and made an app where you can check how many more countries you'd be able to access with another passport on top of your existing one: https://multinational.io/best_passport
One little request: please list Ireland as Ireland like it's done everywhere else. Couldn't find it until I tried another country and saw it in the list as "the Republic of Ireland"
A nitpick, I'm living in one of these countries that "eradicated Covid" and the frankly obvious truth is they didn't, their borders were completely open for months after covid was detected and spreading like fire, and they never adapted the widespread testing and mortality classification regimes like the US did.
I also have a gold card. I encourage every high | special skilled person to apply for it. the process is pretty straightforward. Taiwan needs foreigners. And for an afrikan guy like me who lived in the US before, it's a blessing.
only downside to Taiwan is the language. But it's highly developed, cheap for most things and nature all around.
I right by the beach and my rent is way less than I would've paid in the US
Having been under lockdown (or more broadly hard restrictions) for at least 9 months of the last year I've come to the opposite conclusion, I would like to be a dual national of the USA just to take advantage of the idea that I can vote with my feet when it comes to state governance issues. If I don't like lockdown policy, I can move somewhere that has a lighter touch (like from NYC to Miami which I know a lot of people have done).
In the UK (especially post-brexit), NZ and Australia it feels like being trapped. Travel is restricted both internally (sporadically) and externally and the regional governments have more or less the same policies, so I don't see anyway to vote with my feet here that doesn't come with a high cost.
I started looking at getting my Italian citizenship last year and then COVID hit and I wasn't about to travel to the consulate in San Francisco to deal with it. Kids have both US and Italian though. I hope to do it at some point, although I have some nagging doubts about Italy making a grab for US assets that are probably unfounded.
Ha, I'm literally looking into the same thing as well. Somehow I was never informed that me and my kids are eligible. Its supposedly somewhat easier because because my mother is an Italian citizen and living. But I didn't want to have to travel somewhere either. I did read something about how you can get it done quickly while in Italy. I'm kicking myself having missed the chance to do that while I was there a couple of years ago. Open to any advice you might have.
The post glosses over Canada by not mentioning Quebec. If you are in Quebec, chances of your getting a Permanent Residency is close to slim if you do not have French language proficiency. Thus, while living in Quebec for 5 years now, being a grad student, I neither qualify for PR nor citizenship by naturalization.
Multiple-citizenship has always been fascinating to me. For example, most countries oaths of citizenship are worded in such a way that preclude loyalty split between them and another, yet they don't prevent or punish their citizens for holding dual citizenship.
> One of the most difficult aspects of securing it was that the required documentation was a moving target; online sources conflicted with one another and each reviewer of your application seemingly applied their own new criteria as well. As a result, one of the most successful strategies was insistence; arguing with your reviewer and demonstrating how you did in fact have sufficient documentation and that they were wrong.
I had this exact same experience when renewing my contractor visa in Germany. I'd suggest bringing a printed copy of the requirements list from the German ausländerbehörde website with you whenever you show up to these appointments.
Japan also does not allow its adult citizens to have other nationalities. Those who have Japanese and another nationality from birth are required to choose one after reaching adulthood or risk losing their Japanese nationality [1]. Those acquiring Japanese nationality are also required to renounce other nationalities if possible [2, Article 5].
I know someone who was born in the Soviet Union and, after living in Japan for many years, became a Japanese citizen. She had problems renouncing her previous citizenship because the country where she was born no longer existed; she said she had to bribe someone at the Russian Embassy to get the necessary documentation. She also mentioned being detained and questioned when trying to enter Canada on her Japanese passport for a short stay because the Canadian immigration officials thought she didn’t look Japanese. She had no similar difficulties when trying to enter Japan itself.
That’s easily “circumvented” with an OCI (Overseas Citizenship of India) card. You lose the right to vote or hold public office, but have permanent residence and authorisation to work.
Yes, but India has something called Person Of Indian Origin Card, PIO Card. Which is also known as semi passport. You don't need visa to Infia, can buy land, business. Cant vote, stand in elections, hold government jobs.
Edit: or i think its OCI Card, Overseas Citizen of India. PIO is discontinued.
If you are in the continental US, Mexico is one of the easier places to go. (At least in non-pandemic years. I didn't look into it this past year.)
In the US, the fifty states are also different enough from each other that it may be easier to consider relocating within the US to find something more to your liking or more suitable to your needs. You won't need to apply for a visa or citizenship, etc. You can just find the weather, city size, etc that you like and go with a lot less paper work and jumping through hoops.
This is a mostly acceptable attempt at laying out lots of information related to the subject at hand, but I found it to be poorly researched, inaccurate in some places and missing a lot of info in others. It's a good enough jumping off point, however.
I've been abroad and living between countries for a decade, and one of my hobbies is researching every way an American can get second citizenship and, in particular, residency. That said, I admit I don't have a lot of knowledge about citizenship by ancestory.
There was a better article on this, but I didn’t find it.
Essentially, being born in the U. S while living elsewhere is a financial burden. As in, you haven’t been here since birth, but you are expected to pay for citizenry.
If you are smart, driven, seek opportunity and wish to be on the cutting edge of innovation and access to capital: live in the US. You will be free to make choices optimal for yourself (retirement, health insurance, etc).
If you don't care about the cutting edge and want to feel safe at the cost of losing some freedom of choice: live abroad. I personally recommend Australia.
This is my experience. Neither is 'good' or 'bad'. It comes down to what you seek...
Multiple passports, in 2021 gives you options that are invaluable. You can establish homes in 3 countries. In case of emergency in one country you can go to another 2. You can enter countries that exclude citizens with one or more passports.
There is so much to be thankful for with multiple citizenships.
The one major downside is U.S. Taxes.
Be very grateful to your parents and self-initiative.
I think it would depend on where you wanted to live, and what countries citizenship you had access to. I would love to have permanent residency in one of the Schengen Area countries. But that's probably not feasible unless I bump up my income a bunch.
The premise of the article is to highlight benefits of second citizenship but what stands out in the examples are mostly situations of failings in governance and policy within the US.
More abstractly, I've argued that migration naturally follows from Lockian political thought. If government exists to serve the governed, then it stands to reason that if a government isn't adequately serving the governed (as some might argue to be the case in the US, but I appreciate this is up to personal interpretation), the governed has the right to choose a new government.
Historically we've seen this attempted through revolutions, but now with the advent of relatively easy/inexpensive international migration (by historical standards - not to mention the impossibility of revolutionary war today, but that's a different discussion), migration is a more peaceful alternative.
Where does the power of the dual citizenship come from? If I have a passport each to two countries A and B, and am attempting to enter country C - is the benefit that I can present myself as a citizen of B and will be bound by some B-C covenants, regardless of whether I am a citizen of A, or is it from the fact that C doesn't know that I'm associated with A and only knows about my B loyalty because of the passport I presented?
I’m all for dual citizenships, but a downside nobody’s talking about is that you have to spend 5-10 years of your life in your new country to get it, not factoring in multi-year waiting times that may exist for processing citizenship. Essentially, you need to be comfortable migrating.
[+] [-] mrsaint|5 years ago|reply
My wife is US American, I am German, my dad is Croatian and we've been living in Switzerland for almost 15 years.
When the kids were born, they both had US and German citizenship jus sanguinis. German passports arrived almost instantaneously. The US passports required us to visit the US embassy multiple times and fill out plenty of paper work.
Them gaining Croatian citizenship was more involved. First I needed to apply for it for myself through my dad. I also bought a second home in Croatia were we've spent most of our holidays. I also maintain a Croatian bank account that I use to cover local bills. It took several years and a good lawyer to get passed the beaucracy. Ultimately I received the Croatian passport and so did our children about half a year later.
After staying for over 10 years in Switzerland, my wife, my kids and I applied for Swiss citizenship. It cost us a couple of thousand US dollars, a clean record (no outstanding bills, no other credit issues, proof that you can take financial care of the family), proof of "proper integration" (like do I frequently visit the local pub... really!), a German language proficiency test for my wife, and a test for both of us showing that we understand the cultural, religious and political aspects of Swiss society. The process took exactly one year when we received our passports.
Was it all worth it? I think so. It is a liberating feeling to know that you can move between countries. We also wanted our kids to be able to choose for themselves where to live once they are grown up.
[+] [-] tonfa|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] PeterisP|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hiq|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] croat_in_zurich|5 years ago|reply
I will vote, no questions asked, for any party proposing a Law of Return for passports, no matter where the person intends to live.
As for the Swiss immigration officials, they are very competent, but I've gotten the impression they always want me to leave back where I came from. I love Switzerland anyway.
[+] [-] disabled|5 years ago|reply
Yeah, it is always advisable to get a Croatian lawyer when applying for Croatian citizenship, for example, even if you know exactly what you are doing.
Croatian law allows for loose arbitrary interpretations of the law by government servants in the bureaucracy. Even if you covered all of your bases and you did everything right, a lawyer stops such issues. Plus, Croatian law regulates exactly how much Croatian lawyers can charge, so it is not bad.
While my citizenship application went smoothly, even without the Croatian lawyer's assistance: If I were applying for US citizenship, for example, I would certainly use a lawyer, although for a different set of reasons. This is something to keep in mind for anyone considering emigrating anywhere, as the stakes can be high.
[+] [-] BerislavLopac|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] emptysongglass|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] SlavikCA|5 years ago|reply
My parent moved with us to USA, when I was 18. That's my dark blue passport.
When I was working as Software engineer in California, our company got aquired and they asked us to relocate to Canada. I got PR here and soon will have light blue passport here.
Personal thoughts:
USA citizenship gives me best opportunities and access to best job market.
Canada citizenship gives me best social net: free health care, lower-cost education for my kids.
Russian citizenship gives me hope of protection from western injustice system (Snowden-style) or left cancel culture.
[+] [-] cpursley|5 years ago|reply
Russia has very low taxes for contractors, so that combined with the American foreign earned income tax credit results in tremendous tax savings. Also, I'm on the Black Sea so the weather is better than the rest of Russia. Downside is the political situation, obviously.
[+] [-] 55555|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hackyhacky|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dontbesilly|5 years ago|reply
This doesn't really exist, it's a right-wing myth used to fuel all sorts of "conservatives are under attack" type nonsense.
Weaponized victim complex bullshit.
[+] [-] disabled|5 years ago|reply
I left the US about a month before the lockdowns started. I have been living in Croatia for the past year. I can technically live/work/retire in any EU/EFTA country (minus Lichtenstein--has an immigration quota), due to having Freedom of Movement rights. In a lot of ways the world is my oyster.
Being a dual citizen has some unique advantages: I can also work a US based job, remotely in the EU, completely legally. I have pretty severe health problems, so being able to work remotely in the EU for a US based company is a huge deal. I just have to get the US based employer to agree to use a payroll company as an intermediary to deal with payroll taxes. Obviously I forfeit EU workers' rights.
But, it is way, way, less stressful living here, just in general. Americans have no idea. The taxes are worth the peace of mind along with the stability it gives society.
I naturalized as Croatian only for the right to healthcare: I have 2 rare immune-mediated neurological diseases affecting my peripheral nervous system, which is in remission. I require many unusual treatments and medications, which are difficult to access in the US, for a variety of reasons. Some of these interventions are life-and-death.
[+] [-] jonas_kgomo|5 years ago|reply
- Taiwan (Gold Visa) https://t.co/jaLtwUr9fd
- Finland (90 day trial)
- Singapore (Techpass)
- Portugal (Tech Visa)
- Tulsa pays you 10K to relocate https://t.co/Qwpoiwj3Fm
- New Zealand (EHF) https://www.ehf.org/
- Chile (Startup Chile)
- Estonia https://t.co/cZWk4yJRQC
- Wyoming (best US crypto laws)
- Golden VISA (Dubai) https://t.co/vjSK1kVm7g
- Lithuania https://t.co/TJYCgnHxn3
[+] [-] temp20210221|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] askytb|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mojuba|5 years ago|reply
One little request: please list Ireland as Ireland like it's done everywhere else. Couldn't find it until I tried another country and saw it in the list as "the Republic of Ireland"
[+] [-] sebmellen|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] atweiden|5 years ago|reply
Particularly if you're in your 20s and fully remote, I'd highly encourage you to look into Australia or New Zealand's working holiday visa.
For fans of E.Asia, the Taiwan gold card [1][2] may be of interest.
[1]: https://notebook.wesleyac.com/taiwan/
[2]: https://notebook.wesleyac.com/taiwan-gold-card/
[+] [-] not_a_moth|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dzonga|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mfDjB|5 years ago|reply
In the UK (especially post-brexit), NZ and Australia it feels like being trapped. Travel is restricted both internally (sporadically) and externally and the regional governments have more or less the same policies, so I don't see anyway to vote with my feet here that doesn't come with a high cost.
[+] [-] xrendan|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] davidw|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vyrotek|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gamekathu|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] klipt|5 years ago|reply
I heard of someone from Haiti getting Canadian citizenship while going to grad school in Quebec but that seems more an exception than the rule.
[+] [-] moltar|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Causality1|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wilperkins|5 years ago|reply
I had this exact same experience when renewing my contractor visa in Germany. I'd suggest bringing a printed copy of the requirements list from the German ausländerbehörde website with you whenever you show up to these appointments.
[+] [-] tardismechanic|5 years ago|reply
So that's not an option for 1.32 Billion people.
[+] [-] tkgally|5 years ago|reply
I know someone who was born in the Soviet Union and, after living in Japan for many years, became a Japanese citizen. She had problems renouncing her previous citizenship because the country where she was born no longer existed; she said she had to bribe someone at the Russian Embassy to get the necessary documentation. She also mentioned being detained and questioned when trying to enter Canada on her Japanese passport for a short stay because the Canadian immigration officials thought she didn’t look Japanese. She had no similar difficulties when trying to enter Japan itself.
[1] http://www.moj.go.jp/ENGLISH/information/tcon-01.html
[2] http://www.moj.go.jp/ENGLISH/information/tnl-01.html
[+] [-] d3nj4l|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] davchana|5 years ago|reply
Edit: or i think its OCI Card, Overseas Citizen of India. PIO is discontinued.
[+] [-] splintercell|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dreamer7|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] DoreenMichele|5 years ago|reply
In the US, the fifty states are also different enough from each other that it may be easier to consider relocating within the US to find something more to your liking or more suitable to your needs. You won't need to apply for a visa or citizenship, etc. You can just find the weather, city size, etc that you like and go with a lot less paper work and jumping through hoops.
[+] [-] personlurking|5 years ago|reply
I've been abroad and living between countries for a decade, and one of my hobbies is researching every way an American can get second citizenship and, in particular, residency. That said, I admit I don't have a lot of knowledge about citizenship by ancestory.
[+] [-] alsetmusic|5 years ago|reply
https://www.internationalinvestment.net/news/4012853/acciden...
There was a better article on this, but I didn’t find it.
Essentially, being born in the U. S while living elsewhere is a financial burden. As in, you haven’t been here since birth, but you are expected to pay for citizenry.
[+] [-] tppiotrowski|5 years ago|reply
If you don't care about the cutting edge and want to feel safe at the cost of losing some freedom of choice: live abroad. I personally recommend Australia.
This is my experience. Neither is 'good' or 'bad'. It comes down to what you seek...
[+] [-] x2w8TGm8BSTd853|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eric4smith|5 years ago|reply
Multiple passports, in 2021 gives you options that are invaluable. You can establish homes in 3 countries. In case of emergency in one country you can go to another 2. You can enter countries that exclude citizens with one or more passports.
There is so much to be thankful for with multiple citizenships.
The one major downside is U.S. Taxes.
Be very grateful to your parents and self-initiative.
[+] [-] rootusrootus|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] andi999|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] DoingIsLearning|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] indigochill|5 years ago|reply
Historically we've seen this attempted through revolutions, but now with the advent of relatively easy/inexpensive international migration (by historical standards - not to mention the impossibility of revolutionary war today, but that's a different discussion), migration is a more peaceful alternative.
[+] [-] oh_sigh|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lars512|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eatbitseveryday|5 years ago|reply
https://www.artoncapital.com