The whole stay-abroad until you see "their" point of view is admirable. The flip side is that after that, you can never really go home. I mean obviously you can physically, but you give up your ability to fit in with your own people. This may or may not be a downside for you, but something to be aware of.
Anyway, congratulations on your move.
[edit in response to questions below: there is a big difference between living abroad for a few months a year or a couple of years and doing what the OP is suggesting - living abroad for long enough that your adult life is permanently established abroad. There is a turning point (in my experience around 15 years) at which point you have lived away from your family and old friends (which is what I meant by own people) that your different experiences come to overshadow your old similarities, especially if there are significant cultural differences. For an academic example imagine a woman from Saudi Arabia where women are not allowed even to drive living and working in the US for 20 years integrated in normal US life. It is unlikely she can ever return home and slot back as if she has never left. Americans are not exempt from this phenomenon - as can be reported by expats living in Europe going home to visit their families and ending up in epic arguments over US foreign policy. I live surrounded by expats (not short term visitors) from many countries and they would all report various degrees of this. Basically, once you become a citizen of the world, any one country and culture can come to be seen as parochial).
> you give up your ability to fit in with your own people
This is both true and not true. I have spent something like a quarter of my total life (in 2-3 month chunks mostly) living in Mexico, and while I don’t feel like the “average” American, exactly, I always feel like I can really relax once I’m back in the US. Even though I feel mostly at home in Mexico, I always need to keep a bit on guard, gestures and inflections (not to mention cultural references) pass over my head, I have to stop and think about what I’m doing. In the US (and especially in Southern CA), I am just fluent in day-to-day life.
Anyway, it sounds like you have some personal experience with feeling separated from your home country/culture. Care to share?
Yes I agree with this, based on my personal experiences. It's called "reverse culture shock". The degree to which you experience it is a lot to do with how integrated you become in the foreign society.
Why is it necessary to "give up your ability to fit in with your own people" to understand another culture? Why would understanding America and Singapore mutually exclusive?
I know people who have lived abroad for a few years and returned--they weren't fundamentally changed or different, same person new life experiences is all.
I'm surprised at his choice of location - Singapore is quite a nanny state, and the punishments are sometimes quite severe.
"Singapore society is highly regulated through the criminalization of many activities which are considered as fairly harmless in other countries. These include failing to flush toilets after use, littering, jaywalking, the possession of pornography, and the sale of chewing gum."
"Singapore has one of the highest execution rates in the world relative to its population, surpassing Saudi Arabia."
There are pros and cons of living anywhere. Visit Singapore and you'll encounter some of the cleanest streets on the planet.
I don't mind the "severe" punishments that come down on those that do things like litter, because I don't litter — all in all it doesn't change my behavior for the worse, and only improves the quality of life.
And jaywalking is illegal in the US too.
I'd love to answer any questions about Singapore, if you want to ask them privately (I lived there for several years): [email protected]
i live in both sf and singapore (50/50), and i am actually very much in support of these rules.
my only grouse is the suppressed political scene, and i am glad that even that is being lifted in a slow but steady manner. and trust me, 90% of my friends have criticized the government in a very public manner on facebook/twitter. last i checked, they are still running around town and still complaining.
do not believe 90% of what you hear about singapore - it is actually a very open and welcoming place, quirky punishments not withstanding.
A few years back I was at Singapore's airport and I saw, along many other signs forbidding most human activities one which still haunts me at night.
There was this symbol of a person reading and the text was: no studying.
Then one day while I was walking down Orchard road I saw a long line of people quieing on the street to get in...Sweansens (a chain crappy ice-cream store).
That's when I decided Singapore was lost.
What scares me the is most is that all the rest of South East Asia aspires to become a big Singapore.
Human beings are not supposed to live like that.
I used to manage a team in Singapore when with Lockheed and would go there regularly.
It is one of my favorite cities on the planet.
I took a sabbatical in 2000/2001 for six months and backpacked through asia - I spent 2 months in singapore then as well.
The laws and strictness of the place is greatly exaggerated from my perspective -- if your not doing crazy stuff, you have nothing to worry about.
The city is AMAZING -- and is the FUTURE of cities; they have taken massive infrastructure projects to prepare for more than doubling their population by 2020 - and they build massive underground connective malls and walking causeways.
The city has an incredibly high density of plant life (trees and greenery) and it makes an impact when you visit. Many of the buildings have a large setback from roads where they have trees and grass and planters between the buildings and roads. This is really a wonderful civil engineering trait of the place and makes the city much more beautiful than dense urban dirty environments we see in american cities.
In my opinion, if you ever watch much anime -- Singapore is the city that will most closely resemble that which you see in anime.
I love Singapore - the only thing I dont like is how freaking hot/humid it can get.... and the cost of living.
here in california I'm a criminal for having a gps on my wind shield. but as long as I'm not a minority/pissing an officer/disturbing the status quo/etc, I'm fine.
"to my friends everything.to my enemies, the law."
I love Singapore, except for the climate, which is oppressive.
There is amazing hawker (street) food everywhere and, thanks for strict enforcement of health regulations, it's pretty cheap too. At least it was. It's been a few years since I was there.
I kinda view Singapore as the Zurich of Asia. Zurich (and Switzerland in general) is very regulated (although Singapore more than Zurich; there are no rules against chewing gum in Zurich). Both cities are clean, almost sterile, safe and they basically work (public transport and other infrastructure).
Some people chafe against what they feel is an intrusion. You see those same opinions about New York where I now live. Some feel that NYC has lost a lot of the "grit" or "character" that it once had (back when, you know, muggings were common). One wonders at the psychology of danger and character going hand in hand.
For those who think Singapore is overly-regulated, which it is, you have to remember that English-speaking countries are pretty much an outlier. In continental Europe there are rules about everything, from how to throw out the trash to have to register with the government every time you move and what kinds of window treatments you're allowed to use.
When I worked in Zurich a colleague once described it succinctly: in England (and, by extension, the US, Canada and Australia) you can do whatever you want except for those things that are banned. On the mainland (of Europe) you can't do anything unless it's specifically allowed.
While not true in the strictest sense, that delineation that is tantamount to blacklisting vs whitelisting does, at least in my experience, embody a lot of the cultural differences between English speaking and non English speaking developed nations.
That guy's wife is Finnish and she found it unnerving in England. She wanted that structure of essentially being told what to do and how to do it (within limits).
The only thing I don't really like about Singapore (apart from the weather)--and this is probably true of most Asian countries--is the importance of face time at work. You're expected to be at work a lot even if you're not doing anything. That whole "appearance of work" thing and regimented approach to work in general (ie being very much concerned with the process rather than the results) is something that I've always chafed against.
I live near Zurich but don't perceive the rules to be anywhere near as strict as you described, and would certainly not talk about "being told what to do" by the state. In Singapur, there are lots of laws unimaginable in Switzerland (for example, it's forbidden to smoke in public, you go to jail for speeding/driving while drunk, spitting or chewing gum, you'll t get killed for possessing drugs...). In Switzerland, what I believe causes the low criminality rate is the even lower poverty rate because of the strong social system. What would be called socialist in the States is completely normal here in Europe, and often results in a much better quality of life for everyone living here.
Singapore actually has one of the freest economies in the world, with an extremely friendly business environment that is free of trade barriers and free of strict regulations. Yup, it's ranked #1 on the Ease of Doing Business Index: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ease_of_Doing_Business_Index
>to have to register with the government every time you move
Well, the US keeps track of where you are based on tax returns. The difference is that in Switzerland I'm somewhere on a map and if I move I show up in a new place on the map the day I move there. In the US I'll still be where I was until tax returns come in, at which point everyone's location is updated. It's like a population status screen where Switzerland has a real-time refresh rate and the US has up to 1 year lag time.
>and, by extension, the US
No, not by extension the US. He probably mentioned this specifically because he saw you were American. Brits take particular delight in telling us yanks about how they don't have any constitution that outlines what their rights are.
>differences between English speaking and non English speaking developed nations.
Again, these are some pretty broad strokes. A Swiss friend of mine pointed out the difference between Germany and Switzerland is that for Germany the people are there to serve the government, while in Switzerland it is the other way around (and that's a broad statement of itself, but there are fundamental difference between the two. See tax rates). So the demarcation is not English/non-English.
>is the importance of face time at work.
I have yet to find a place where this wasn't the case. Perhaps it's more extreme in Asia but every place I've ever been has it. Personally I think "face time" is more about tradition than culture. The internet has created new ways of providing value and not everyone has caught up yet.
It sound like your describing Positive liberty vs. Negative liberty, and yes coming from the UK I do find the rules in mainland Europe at time strange.
I think Berlin has managed to strike an excellent balance. It's quite safe, but has a uniquely vibrant artistic community and has as much "grit" or cleanliness as you like.
I like Vietnam for similar reasons. It can be edgy but not really dangerous.
It's not the rules that keep me out of Singapore it's the disproportionate response for breaking them. I don't mind if a place I'm visiting doesn't want me to chew gum or has a law about flushing the toilet, and I think for both of these the punishment is (high) fines so it's only money. But death penalty for drug possession? Count me out. Not that I would bring drugs there, but in any civilized nation the worst thing that could happen if I were falsely accused and could not prove my innocence is a variable amount of jail time. In Singapore, I would die. You might argue that this could be said of any country with capital punishment and you'd be correct, however for Singapore it applies to more crimes and is administered more freely.
1) Rising cost of living through inflation.
2) Expensive housing.
3) Lack of financial liquidity. Singaporeans are asset-rich but cash-poor.
4) Apathy amongst the populace about social issues, legal and political process although this is changing, albeit slowly.
5) An extremely ingrained and fearful sense of failure. If it's not been done before, the default answer is "No".
Some good things going for it:
1) Public infrastructure is generally good but facing challenges from an increasing migrant population.
2) Personal safety. Women can walk home alone at night and not be assaulted.
3) Racial harmony. You don't read about hate crimes, skinheads etc. Some forms of implicit racial profiling and discrimination exists, but they are not widespread. i.e. there are always assholes of any color.
4) Low personal income tax.
First post here - long time lurker.
I was transferred to Singapore for work from Tokyo. Here are my impressions.
-housing is extremely expensive, food is generally cheap, air quality is nice
-streets are not as clean as expected, especially compared to Tokyo, which is a much larger city. I lived in Chinatown in the People's Park Complex with 6 mainland Chinese (I'm American), which was an interesting experience.
-the expat community is dominated by the finance community, which can tend to limit the crowds you will run with if you're not in with the locals. I tried to befriend the locals, with limited success.
-it doesn't feel like the police state it's made out to be, don't worry about being arrested for chewing gum (I saw some T-shirts with a "Legalize It" theme referring to gum).
Overall, Singapore seemed sterile to me. That was part my reason for quitting my job and moving back to Tokyo in April. I like Singapore, but not my cup of tea. Maybe that's just because I'm a huge fan of Japan.
Congratulations on the move! Asia is a great place to be. And a great environment for doing business. I'm in Hong Kong --- in several cities around the region including here, SG, KL, and Jakarta I see lots of latent entrepreneurial energy starting to manifest itself.
One warning: since it seems you plan to majority-own some local startups I hope you have an excellent accountant to help you with Uncle Sam. (yep, Americans living overseas still have to file with the IRS. whole mess of complicated forms. can even end up having to pay tax on undistributed corporate profits if you're not careful ...)
Whenever I go to a new place, it takes about a year to really understand the true "costs" of living there. (The benefits are usually obvious on the first day or two.)
I have a friend who lived in Singapore for many years. The biggest "cost" for her in living there was that it is not fully subscribed to the principals of the Enlightenment.
I know this is like saying, "Yes your new girlfriend is cute and smart, but you should know she's also occasionally batshit crazy." You won't believe me and you'll be more inclined to shoot the messenger, but I thought you should know.
No place on earth is "fully subscribed to the principals (principles acshully) of the Enlightenment" -- once you fully grok that, every place is perfectly fine for tourism and every place kinda sucks for citizenship. Of course, degrees vary. But... in principle!
Yeah, I was wondering about that too. But is that number publicly available? If so (or if nothing bad happens if people do know it), is there an issue?
Edit: Hmm ... "This has led to complaints of the possibility of fraud and identity theft. Therefore, now when NRIC numbers are publicly displayed, only the last three digits and the letters are displayed." -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Registration_Identity_...
This favors a trend I've noticed. White men moving to Asia or marrying/dating Asian women. It seems like half or more of the engineers I work with are married to Asian women, which is how I noticed this (I am also). It's an interesting trend. It's increasingly harder to find a white woman who will marry and have kids, let alone even talk to a man with geeky characteristics. Combine that with the lack of white women in science and engineering degrees...
This is a tough subject. You're right that if you walk around a city in SE Asia, you'll inevitably see lots of old, fat, bald men walking around with young pretty local girls, and there's no mistaking what's going on. Lots of these guys marry their bar girls and bring them home, so it's not uncommon to see a surly, tattoo'd guy walking around in Manchester with a Thai girl who's clearly way out of his league.
But what happens if you're a young traveler living in Chiang Mai, teaching English, and you meet a local girl who works as a bank teller. You fall in love, meet her parents, marry and eventually move back to your country with her. How do you signal to the world that yours is in fact a legitimate relationship?
The short answer is: you can't. There's a stigma, deserved or undeserved. It's something you learn to live with, because you know that nomatter how clearly you explain your position, you'll still end up fielding uncomfortable questions like the one asked by the parent.
Singapore's position on race is difficult to characterize. This is what I've heard:
Most Singaporeans live in government-owned housing blocks. The distribution of the races within each housing block is roughly the same as in Singapore as a whole. Within these blocks, you are only allowed to sell your apartment to another person of the same race as yourself.
Officially this is to promote "racial harmony." That's probably true. Unofficially, it seems clear that it's also a form of gerrymandering: the government assumes that the Chinese majority will always support the ruling party, and this system stops any district from gaining a Malay majority.
I've also been told that your second language in school (which is taught in English, a neutral language) is determined by your race: Mandarin for Chinese, Malay for Malaysians, and Tamil (!) for Indians.
I really love Singapore -- been there several times as a visitor, studied its governance, society (and its food stalls...) but I would be seriously pissed off if I were told that I had to do certain things because of my race.
It's pretty useful when trying to describe someone, or prevent a photo from being swapped out. Gender, hair color, skin color, etc. are all obvious physical traits.
One od the reasons is that Singapore is pro-racial integration, so they put it on virtually every official form... for example there are rules to prevent segregation by 'race' within the public housing system.
But even after living here 4 years it still strikes me as strange.
Do you learn the local language every place you live?
I would suppose that's a pretty herculean task unless you already know several fluently and spend a considerable amount of time daily studying and practicing.
"She can do this from anywhere"... that's often the problem.
I can work from anywhere and I'm currently single, so I'm traveling the world and living in different places (currently Buenos Aires), but a partner would make this much harder as they are usually not as flexible.
Startup idea: Have a dating site for location-independent individuals, I'll be your first customer :).
A very focus country on being the most successful country in SEA and it's built on the vision of one man, LKY. However I do fear the day LKY pass and the government is lost.
Singapore seemed a little to squeaky-clean and expensive, so I did the same thing, but in Vietnam instead. Internet infrastructure here isn't great but other than that I haven't regretted it for a second. The U.S. and Europe just seem so boring now when I go back.
It was near the top of the list, but failed on two big counts:
(1) - the air
(2) - Cantonese
I've already been studying Mandarin slowly for a couple years, and though I've heard I could have "gotten by" with English and Mandarin, I really wanted to just focus on Mandarin + simplified Chinese.
[+] [-] frossie|15 years ago|reply
Anyway, congratulations on your move.
[edit in response to questions below: there is a big difference between living abroad for a few months a year or a couple of years and doing what the OP is suggesting - living abroad for long enough that your adult life is permanently established abroad. There is a turning point (in my experience around 15 years) at which point you have lived away from your family and old friends (which is what I meant by own people) that your different experiences come to overshadow your old similarities, especially if there are significant cultural differences. For an academic example imagine a woman from Saudi Arabia where women are not allowed even to drive living and working in the US for 20 years integrated in normal US life. It is unlikely she can ever return home and slot back as if she has never left. Americans are not exempt from this phenomenon - as can be reported by expats living in Europe going home to visit their families and ending up in epic arguments over US foreign policy. I live surrounded by expats (not short term visitors) from many countries and they would all report various degrees of this. Basically, once you become a citizen of the world, any one country and culture can come to be seen as parochial).
[+] [-] cglee|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jacobolus|15 years ago|reply
This is both true and not true. I have spent something like a quarter of my total life (in 2-3 month chunks mostly) living in Mexico, and while I don’t feel like the “average” American, exactly, I always feel like I can really relax once I’m back in the US. Even though I feel mostly at home in Mexico, I always need to keep a bit on guard, gestures and inflections (not to mention cultural references) pass over my head, I have to stop and think about what I’m doing. In the US (and especially in Southern CA), I am just fluent in day-to-day life.
Anyway, it sounds like you have some personal experience with feeling separated from your home country/culture. Care to share?
[+] [-] rickdangerous1|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lotusleaf1987|15 years ago|reply
I know people who have lived abroad for a few years and returned--they weren't fundamentally changed or different, same person new life experiences is all.
[+] [-] kylec|15 years ago|reply
"Singapore society is highly regulated through the criminalization of many activities which are considered as fairly harmless in other countries. These include failing to flush toilets after use, littering, jaywalking, the possession of pornography, and the sale of chewing gum."
"Singapore has one of the highest execution rates in the world relative to its population, surpassing Saudi Arabia."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_law_of_Singapore
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disneyland_with_the_death_penal...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offence_of_scandalizing_the_cou...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Law_(Temporary_Provisi...
[+] [-] sahillavingia|15 years ago|reply
I don't mind the "severe" punishments that come down on those that do things like litter, because I don't litter — all in all it doesn't change my behavior for the worse, and only improves the quality of life.
And jaywalking is illegal in the US too.
I'd love to answer any questions about Singapore, if you want to ask them privately (I lived there for several years): [email protected]
[+] [-] mingyeow|15 years ago|reply
my only grouse is the suppressed political scene, and i am glad that even that is being lifted in a slow but steady manner. and trust me, 90% of my friends have criticized the government in a very public manner on facebook/twitter. last i checked, they are still running around town and still complaining.
do not believe 90% of what you hear about singapore - it is actually a very open and welcoming place, quirky punishments not withstanding.
[+] [-] Lucadg|15 years ago|reply
Then one day while I was walking down Orchard road I saw a long line of people quieing on the street to get in...Sweansens (a chain crappy ice-cream store). That's when I decided Singapore was lost.
What scares me the is most is that all the rest of South East Asia aspires to become a big Singapore. Human beings are not supposed to live like that.
[+] [-] phlux|15 years ago|reply
It is one of my favorite cities on the planet.
I took a sabbatical in 2000/2001 for six months and backpacked through asia - I spent 2 months in singapore then as well.
The laws and strictness of the place is greatly exaggerated from my perspective -- if your not doing crazy stuff, you have nothing to worry about.
The city is AMAZING -- and is the FUTURE of cities; they have taken massive infrastructure projects to prepare for more than doubling their population by 2020 - and they build massive underground connective malls and walking causeways.
The city has an incredibly high density of plant life (trees and greenery) and it makes an impact when you visit. Many of the buildings have a large setback from roads where they have trees and grass and planters between the buildings and roads. This is really a wonderful civil engineering trait of the place and makes the city much more beautiful than dense urban dirty environments we see in american cities.
In my opinion, if you ever watch much anime -- Singapore is the city that will most closely resemble that which you see in anime.
I love Singapore - the only thing I dont like is how freaking hot/humid it can get.... and the cost of living.
[+] [-] alnayyir|15 years ago|reply
Visit sometime with an open mind.
[+] [-] gcb|15 years ago|reply
here in california I'm a criminal for having a gps on my wind shield. but as long as I'm not a minority/pissing an officer/disturbing the status quo/etc, I'm fine.
"to my friends everything.to my enemies, the law."
[+] [-] cletus|15 years ago|reply
There is amazing hawker (street) food everywhere and, thanks for strict enforcement of health regulations, it's pretty cheap too. At least it was. It's been a few years since I was there.
I kinda view Singapore as the Zurich of Asia. Zurich (and Switzerland in general) is very regulated (although Singapore more than Zurich; there are no rules against chewing gum in Zurich). Both cities are clean, almost sterile, safe and they basically work (public transport and other infrastructure).
Some people chafe against what they feel is an intrusion. You see those same opinions about New York where I now live. Some feel that NYC has lost a lot of the "grit" or "character" that it once had (back when, you know, muggings were common). One wonders at the psychology of danger and character going hand in hand.
For those who think Singapore is overly-regulated, which it is, you have to remember that English-speaking countries are pretty much an outlier. In continental Europe there are rules about everything, from how to throw out the trash to have to register with the government every time you move and what kinds of window treatments you're allowed to use.
When I worked in Zurich a colleague once described it succinctly: in England (and, by extension, the US, Canada and Australia) you can do whatever you want except for those things that are banned. On the mainland (of Europe) you can't do anything unless it's specifically allowed.
While not true in the strictest sense, that delineation that is tantamount to blacklisting vs whitelisting does, at least in my experience, embody a lot of the cultural differences between English speaking and non English speaking developed nations.
That guy's wife is Finnish and she found it unnerving in England. She wanted that structure of essentially being told what to do and how to do it (within limits).
The only thing I don't really like about Singapore (apart from the weather)--and this is probably true of most Asian countries--is the importance of face time at work. You're expected to be at work a lot even if you're not doing anything. That whole "appearance of work" thing and regimented approach to work in general (ie being very much concerned with the process rather than the results) is something that I've always chafed against.
[+] [-] Daniel14|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] htht00|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] danssig|15 years ago|reply
Well, the US keeps track of where you are based on tax returns. The difference is that in Switzerland I'm somewhere on a map and if I move I show up in a new place on the map the day I move there. In the US I'll still be where I was until tax returns come in, at which point everyone's location is updated. It's like a population status screen where Switzerland has a real-time refresh rate and the US has up to 1 year lag time.
>and, by extension, the US
No, not by extension the US. He probably mentioned this specifically because he saw you were American. Brits take particular delight in telling us yanks about how they don't have any constitution that outlines what their rights are.
>differences between English speaking and non English speaking developed nations.
Again, these are some pretty broad strokes. A Swiss friend of mine pointed out the difference between Germany and Switzerland is that for Germany the people are there to serve the government, while in Switzerland it is the other way around (and that's a broad statement of itself, but there are fundamental difference between the two. See tax rates). So the demarcation is not English/non-English.
>is the importance of face time at work.
I have yet to find a place where this wasn't the case. Perhaps it's more extreme in Asia but every place I've ever been has it. Personally I think "face time" is more about tradition than culture. The internet has created new ways of providing value and not everyone has caught up yet.
[+] [-] z303|15 years ago|reply
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_liberty http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_liberty
[+] [-] cageface|15 years ago|reply
I like Vietnam for similar reasons. It can be edgy but not really dangerous.
[+] [-] bluedanieru|15 years ago|reply
Singapore is a dangerous country.
[+] [-] robak|15 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] jasonkester|15 years ago|reply
Reading that just makes me smile. Well done.
So many people say they want to do exactly that. So few do it.
Of the people who don't do it, so many regret not having done it. Of the people who have, I've never met a single one who regretted it.
I hope your story serves as inspiration for somebody here to pack that little carry-on and book himself a one-way flight.
[+] [-] brisance|15 years ago|reply
These are some issues that Singaporeans face:
1) Rising cost of living through inflation. 2) Expensive housing. 3) Lack of financial liquidity. Singaporeans are asset-rich but cash-poor. 4) Apathy amongst the populace about social issues, legal and political process although this is changing, albeit slowly. 5) An extremely ingrained and fearful sense of failure. If it's not been done before, the default answer is "No".
Some good things going for it:
1) Public infrastructure is generally good but facing challenges from an increasing migrant population. 2) Personal safety. Women can walk home alone at night and not be assaulted. 3) Racial harmony. You don't read about hate crimes, skinheads etc. Some forms of implicit racial profiling and discrimination exists, but they are not widespread. i.e. there are always assholes of any color. 4) Low personal income tax.
[+] [-] matimateo|15 years ago|reply
-streets are not as clean as expected, especially compared to Tokyo, which is a much larger city. I lived in Chinatown in the People's Park Complex with 6 mainland Chinese (I'm American), which was an interesting experience.
-the expat community is dominated by the finance community, which can tend to limit the crowds you will run with if you're not in with the locals. I tried to befriend the locals, with limited success.
-it doesn't feel like the police state it's made out to be, don't worry about being arrested for chewing gum (I saw some T-shirts with a "Legalize It" theme referring to gum).
Overall, Singapore seemed sterile to me. That was part my reason for quitting my job and moving back to Tokyo in April. I like Singapore, but not my cup of tea. Maybe that's just because I'm a huge fan of Japan.
[+] [-] quant18|15 years ago|reply
One warning: since it seems you plan to majority-own some local startups I hope you have an excellent accountant to help you with Uncle Sam. (yep, Americans living overseas still have to file with the IRS. whole mess of complicated forms. can even end up having to pay tax on undistributed corporate profits if you're not careful ...)
[+] [-] david927|15 years ago|reply
I have a friend who lived in Singapore for many years. The biggest "cost" for her in living there was that it is not fully subscribed to the principals of the Enlightenment.
I know this is like saying, "Yes your new girlfriend is cute and smart, but you should know she's also occasionally batshit crazy." You won't believe me and you'll be more inclined to shoot the messenger, but I thought you should know.
[+] [-] dualogy|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] maayank|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bemmu|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jackowayed|15 years ago|reply
Edit: Hmm ... "This has led to complaints of the possibility of fraud and identity theft. Therefore, now when NRIC numbers are publicly displayed, only the last three digits and the letters are displayed." -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Registration_Identity_...
[+] [-] jacques_chester|15 years ago|reply
* Low regulation
* Low company tax
* No income tax paid on dividends
* No capital gains
It's also a market capital for Asia. Singapore and Hong Kong are the New York and London of the Asia-Pacific region. Very deep pools of capital.
Plus it's 3.5 hours from my home town and about 5 hours from where my parents live.
[+] [-] bina|15 years ago|reply
This favors a trend I've noticed. White men moving to Asia or marrying/dating Asian women. It seems like half or more of the engineers I work with are married to Asian women, which is how I noticed this (I am also). It's an interesting trend. It's increasingly harder to find a white woman who will marry and have kids, let alone even talk to a man with geeky characteristics. Combine that with the lack of white women in science and engineering degrees...
[+] [-] jasonkester|15 years ago|reply
But what happens if you're a young traveler living in Chiang Mai, teaching English, and you meet a local girl who works as a bank teller. You fall in love, meet her parents, marry and eventually move back to your country with her. How do you signal to the world that yours is in fact a legitimate relationship?
The short answer is: you can't. There's a stigma, deserved or undeserved. It's something you learn to live with, because you know that nomatter how clearly you explain your position, you'll still end up fielding uncomfortable questions like the one asked by the parent.
[+] [-] callmeed|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sidwyn|15 years ago|reply
One thing to note though, you should remove your Identity Card No. from your blog post. They can be used illegally and is best kept private.
Have dropped you a mail, let's meet up sometime!
[+] [-] ido|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] drinian|15 years ago|reply
Most Singaporeans live in government-owned housing blocks. The distribution of the races within each housing block is roughly the same as in Singapore as a whole. Within these blocks, you are only allowed to sell your apartment to another person of the same race as yourself.
Officially this is to promote "racial harmony." That's probably true. Unofficially, it seems clear that it's also a form of gerrymandering: the government assumes that the Chinese majority will always support the ruling party, and this system stops any district from gaining a Malay majority.
I've also been told that your second language in school (which is taught in English, a neutral language) is determined by your race: Mandarin for Chinese, Malay for Malaysians, and Tamil (!) for Indians.
I really love Singapore -- been there several times as a visitor, studied its governance, society (and its food stalls...) but I would be seriously pissed off if I were told that I had to do certain things because of my race.
[+] [-] rdl|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] andycroll|15 years ago|reply
But even after living here 4 years it still strikes me as strange.
[+] [-] nihilocrat|15 years ago|reply
I would suppose that's a pretty herculean task unless you already know several fluently and spend a considerable amount of time daily studying and practicing.
[+] [-] maayank|15 years ago|reply
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore#Languages
[+] [-] tlrobinson|15 years ago|reply
More generally, is there some resource for comparing costs of living of various places?
[+] [-] sivers|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lzy|15 years ago|reply
Just curious.
(Congrats on becoming a Singapore citizen btw!)
[+] [-] sashthebash|15 years ago|reply
I can work from anywhere and I'm currently single, so I'm traveling the world and living in different places (currently Buenos Aires), but a partner would make this much harder as they are usually not as flexible.
Startup idea: Have a dating site for location-independent individuals, I'll be your first customer :).
[+] [-] whow|15 years ago|reply
A very focus country on being the most successful country in SEA and it's built on the vision of one man, LKY. However I do fear the day LKY pass and the government is lost.
[+] [-] cageface|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] louislouis|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sivers|15 years ago|reply
(1) - the air
(2) - Cantonese
I've already been studying Mandarin slowly for a couple years, and though I've heard I could have "gotten by" with English and Mandarin, I really wanted to just focus on Mandarin + simplified Chinese.
But mostly it was the air. :-)