It's incredible how much flack this thing is getting...especially for its appearance. Clearly gone are the days when designers believed that form followed function. This vehicle was designed to maneuver closely around other objects like mailboxes, maximize cargo capacity, and keep the driver safe. The low hood gives the driver better visibility at the edge of the vehicle while still offering a crumple zone. I can't find any specs on the interior, but I'm betting cargo capacity has been improved...especially for larger packages, which is much more of USPS's delivery bulk in this decade.
Everything about this seems thoughtfully engineered, but clearly our design sensibilities these days are more oriented towards golden ratios than functionality.
Low hood would also differentiate it from most consumer vehicles for a good reason.
Pedestrian deaths are rising in the US, both total and per-capita. In large part this can be attributed to the increasing popularity of taller crossovers and SUVs, which strike passengers higher on the body and are more likely to knock passengers under the vehicle and towards the wheels rather than bouncing over the hood.
Of defense contractors, Oshkosh is one of my favorite and makes amazing vehicles. I think the USPS will get a reliable and durable platform from them. As far as electrification, they have experience with that in the HEMTT and could upgrade the platform as the USPS dictates. They also have autonomous vehicle experience so there is a lot of longevity to the partnership. So as far as government boondoggles can go, this sounds ok to me.
I have an Oshkosh P19, an aircraft/structural fire truck. The thing is unstoppable with a fully locked drive train on demand and great construction quality. They also fixed a bunch of issues in the FMTV that were inherited from BAE Systems. The MTVR, JLTV, and HET are all well regarded AFAIK.
I hope they plan to design them as rolling data platforms. Postal trucks are ideal for collecting hyperlocal data. The 360 camera is a good start, assuming it can record. Imagine getting a completely up to date Street View every day. Imagine getting hyperlocal weather data every day.
And more importantly, that same data collected over time. Being able to monitor the daily changes in weather or traffic or erosion.
With the right contracts in place, it might even be profitable for them to go off route just to collect data.
We already can get hyper local weather data: every airport (and there are a lot of small airports in the U.S.) and tons of public buildings have weather stations on them. I guarantee you can get weather data within a few miles easily.
As to everything else: no, that would be creepy and the post office shouldn't do it. They don't need to become profitable or do off-mission things just to please the people that think it should be run like a business for some reason even though the whole point of the post office is to actually go everywhere (even where it wouldn't be profitable for FedEx et al to go) and be cheap (ie. not to be run like a business, to be run like a public service, which is what it is).
I'm a former postal worker (summer job in the 90's) and I drove some of those postal trucks. I drove the "half ton" and "quarter ton" trucks. Those are the small or very small delivery trucks you would typically see in residential neighborhoods.
Those things were named after their actual weight and made of aluminum. Obviously driving around in a 500 or 1000 pound vehicle when every other car weighs considerably more is anxiety producing. Plus the driver seat is inverted compared to every other US vehicle, so my visibility to the left side and rear was poor. Plus other drivers can't be expected to know or understand that my ability to see them is different from what is typical of other drivers. Plus if the vehicle was damaged in any way, I would be fired, even if it was clearly not my fault.
Fun times! And great memories. What a unique summer job to have while in college.
Looks wonky but I would have preferred to drive one of these. Those two cameras would have been super helpful, plus that blind spot warning for the left side. Those will make a big difference.
Also, these have air conditioning!! What a luxury! The previous ones did not have that. Just a sad little fan that barely did anything.
Postal workers don't care what the vehicles look like, they want practical safety features that help them do their jobs.
Not visually appealing at first glance, but the posts I've seen by postal workers are that this thing looks great. The cargo capacity will handle the increase in package delivery, and it's much easier to see around the edges to maneuver up to a mailbox, which reduces the times a carrier has to get out to deliver the mail. The current vans don't even have A/C, and their collision warning system is a plastic pole at the corner.
That image doesn't emphasize any of the stuff that the people that will have to work with the vehicle and will be responsible for fleet performance want to know (and by proxy, their bosses, who are authorizing the expense).
What's my maintenance costs and times gonna look like?
Will it be ergonomic to get in and out all the time?
Can this vehicle pull out into traffic easily?
Is this vehicle gonna be a fatiguing pain to drive?
The features list almost raises more questions than answers. Half the tech they highlighted comes with a very high risk of being worse than the manual solution it's replacing if the tech is not up to par. Nobody wants to wait for the automatic door to close to put it in gear.
Edit: So why is this opinion so unwelcome here, because I'm not on the "more tech more better" bandwagon or something of actual substance?
Suspect they will destroy them much as they did the older style postal jeeps towards the end. They are not safe and there is a lot of potential liability in selling them. I think they also want to avoid the situation where people drive around in official looking vehicles that are identified as belonging to the post office.
Also, they are too small to make a decent food wagon.
I don't want to start a food truck, but I would like to electrify them and make them into a fleet of leasable UberEats/DoorDash/Prime delivery vehicles
I don't understand why USPS would contract out designing a new vehicle instead of buying American SUVs built for Europe - all the amenities of a modern SUV, plenty of parts and mechanics to repair them, and they'll have been built by a real car company, not some "Tactical Vehicle Manufacturer". Best of all, they'll have that right-hand-drive that Postal workers love so much.
We can't even do something as simple as upgrading the post office vehicles without bringing in defense contractors. Give me a break. Put that money towards a company of peace, or at least the company that will cost USPS the least.
Are you going to complain that fishing boats have Raytheon radars?
Oshkosh makes tons of industry specific truck bodies. That's one of their business lines. Same for Grumman before them.
Despite what the internet commenters seeking validation for their decision to purchase a 3yo Tacoma at 2k over MSRP will have you believe, the edge between vehicle manufacturers is quite small to the point where USPS contracting somebody, anybody to build them a bunch of purpose built vehicles will likely be cheaper in the long run than slapping a bunch of shelves in a RHD Transit Connect.
And this is coming from someone who thinks most commercial fleets are over-equipped for regulatory compliance reasons and that the broader economy would be better off if that didn't happen.
Building off an existing platform makes some sense, but modern SUVs are a set of design trade offs that probably aren't great for much other than their target market: suburban homes doing school runs, work commutes and occasional grocery runs on good roads, while maintaining occasional use functionality to pick up heavier/bulkier objects.
They don't make much sense as a commercial vehicle designed to get in and out of all day and load and unload. So your car manufacture would make a bunch of modifications, and at that point you are right back where you started.
Now if you were suggesting buy a bunch of whatever some other country had developed for the same purpose, you might be onto something.
> they'll have that right-hand-drive that Postal workers love so much.
Maybe you know, but the vast majority of Europe is right-hand-traffic, left-hand-drive like the US. AFAIK only the UK and Ireland are left-hand-traffic in Europe.
"The vehicles will be equipped with either fuel-efficient internal combustion engines or battery electric powertrains and can be retrofitted to keep pace with advances in electric vehicle technologies. The initial investment includes plant tooling and build-out for the U.S. manufacturing facility where final vehicle assembly will occur."
Yes this violates the EV EO and will likely be overturned before any vehicles are delivered. Biden just nominated 3 new members to the postal board; meaning DeJoy is on the way out sooner rather than later.
The current-gen mail vehicle is called the LLV - literally the Grumman Long Life Vehicle - and the mileage these things have taken on speaks well to the name.
USPS tends to order these things with the expectation that they'll last forever (400k+ miles) with relatively little upkeep. Most cars out today, even if they get to e.g. 200k miles, will probably have taken on some pretty major repairs.
Because when you're buying a "major car OEMs are happy to sell this number" number of vehicles you can afford to get exactly what you want and the resultant few % reduction in operating cost over the following decade or two will more than make up for the increased cost up front.
Also odds are this thing will be a mish-mash of GM or Ford parts bin with just the body and body specific stuff being different (like the LLV, or that handicapped van AM general used to make). So they may very well be buying a "customized Ford Transit" where it just so happens the body is also custom.
[+] [-] madrox|5 years ago|reply
Everything about this seems thoughtfully engineered, but clearly our design sensibilities these days are more oriented towards golden ratios than functionality.
[+] [-] bobthepanda|5 years ago|reply
Pedestrian deaths are rising in the US, both total and per-capita. In large part this can be attributed to the increasing popularity of taller crossovers and SUVs, which strike passengers higher on the body and are more likely to knock passengers under the vehicle and towards the wheels rather than bouncing over the hood.
[+] [-] oliv__|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kev009|5 years ago|reply
I have an Oshkosh P19, an aircraft/structural fire truck. The thing is unstoppable with a fully locked drive train on demand and great construction quality. They also fixed a bunch of issues in the FMTV that were inherited from BAE Systems. The MTVR, JLTV, and HET are all well regarded AFAIK.
[+] [-] pbourke|5 years ago|reply
Cool! What do you use that for?
[+] [-] xjwm|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jedberg|5 years ago|reply
And more importantly, that same data collected over time. Being able to monitor the daily changes in weather or traffic or erosion.
With the right contracts in place, it might even be profitable for them to go off route just to collect data.
[+] [-] SamWhited|5 years ago|reply
As to everything else: no, that would be creepy and the post office shouldn't do it. They don't need to become profitable or do off-mission things just to please the people that think it should be run like a business for some reason even though the whole point of the post office is to actually go everywhere (even where it wouldn't be profitable for FedEx et al to go) and be cheap (ie. not to be run like a business, to be run like a public service, which is what it is).
[+] [-] nottorp|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hx2a|5 years ago|reply
Those things were named after their actual weight and made of aluminum. Obviously driving around in a 500 or 1000 pound vehicle when every other car weighs considerably more is anxiety producing. Plus the driver seat is inverted compared to every other US vehicle, so my visibility to the left side and rear was poor. Plus other drivers can't be expected to know or understand that my ability to see them is different from what is typical of other drivers. Plus if the vehicle was damaged in any way, I would be fired, even if it was clearly not my fault.
Fun times! And great memories. What a unique summer job to have while in college.
[+] [-] throwaway0a5e|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tyingq|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hx2a|5 years ago|reply
Also, these have air conditioning!! What a luxury! The previous ones did not have that. Just a sad little fan that barely did anything.
Postal workers don't care what the vehicles look like, they want practical safety features that help them do their jobs.
[+] [-] madrox|5 years ago|reply
Form really follows function.
[+] [-] dag11|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] burlesona|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] AnimalMuppet|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] justicezyx|5 years ago|reply
US should be on the left side right? The figure shows right side...
[+] [-] throwaway0a5e|5 years ago|reply
What's my maintenance costs and times gonna look like?
Will it be ergonomic to get in and out all the time?
Can this vehicle pull out into traffic easily?
Is this vehicle gonna be a fatiguing pain to drive?
The features list almost raises more questions than answers. Half the tech they highlighted comes with a very high risk of being worse than the manual solution it's replacing if the tech is not up to par. Nobody wants to wait for the automatic door to close to put it in gear.
Edit: So why is this opinion so unwelcome here, because I'm not on the "more tech more better" bandwagon or something of actual substance?
[+] [-] uneekname|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ogre_codes|5 years ago|reply
Also, they are too small to make a decent food wagon.
[+] [-] tonywastaken|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] reteltech|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tshaddox|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tylerchilds|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dengsauve|5 years ago|reply
We can't even do something as simple as upgrading the post office vehicles without bringing in defense contractors. Give me a break. Put that money towards a company of peace, or at least the company that will cost USPS the least.
[+] [-] throwaway0a5e|5 years ago|reply
Oshkosh makes tons of industry specific truck bodies. That's one of their business lines. Same for Grumman before them.
Despite what the internet commenters seeking validation for their decision to purchase a 3yo Tacoma at 2k over MSRP will have you believe, the edge between vehicle manufacturers is quite small to the point where USPS contracting somebody, anybody to build them a bunch of purpose built vehicles will likely be cheaper in the long run than slapping a bunch of shelves in a RHD Transit Connect.
And this is coming from someone who thinks most commercial fleets are over-equipped for regulatory compliance reasons and that the broader economy would be better off if that didn't happen.
[+] [-] ska|5 years ago|reply
They don't make much sense as a commercial vehicle designed to get in and out of all day and load and unload. So your car manufacture would make a bunch of modifications, and at that point you are right back where you started.
Now if you were suggesting buy a bunch of whatever some other country had developed for the same purpose, you might be onto something.
[+] [-] supergarfield|5 years ago|reply
> they'll have that right-hand-drive that Postal workers love so much.
Maybe you know, but the vast majority of Europe is right-hand-traffic, left-hand-drive like the US. AFAIK only the UK and Ireland are left-hand-traffic in Europe.
[+] [-] toast0|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|5 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] gnicholas|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] phnofive|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fnord77|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] spullara|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] WoahNoun|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bluedino|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eganist|5 years ago|reply
USPS tends to order these things with the expectation that they'll last forever (400k+ miles) with relatively little upkeep. Most cars out today, even if they get to e.g. 200k miles, will probably have taken on some pretty major repairs.
History:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeep_DJ ('55-'84)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_LLV ('87-'94, still used today)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Generation_Delivery_Vehic... ('23 onward)
Further reading:
https://postalmuseum.si.edu/object/npm_1989.0563.1 - Jeep DJ
[+] [-] throwaway0a5e|5 years ago|reply
Also odds are this thing will be a mish-mash of GM or Ford parts bin with just the body and body specific stuff being different (like the LLV, or that handicapped van AM general used to make). So they may very well be buying a "customized Ford Transit" where it just so happens the body is also custom.
[+] [-] jimboyoungblood|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|5 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] unknown|5 years ago|reply
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