Shopify says remove Stripe billing or get booted from their app store

[ponny]

We're a SaaS business currently listed on the Shopify App store. Today we got this stern email from Shopify's 'Partner Governance' team.

TLDR: Don't even have Stripe as an option for Shopify users or we'll boot you. Also backpay since Jan 2019.

"At Shopify, it is critical to maintain high trust and integrity within the Shopify App Store, so merchants have a reliable place to find solutions to grow their business.

During a routine investigation, Partner Governance identified your app [our app] as offering external billing for Shopify merchants and not using the Billing API for all payments.

[a couple of images of our cart]

As you are aware, all paid apps are required to use our Billing API, as noted in our Partner Program Agreement (Section 3.2 Payments, Point 5) unless express permission is granted by Shopify.

Payment information should not be obtained from the merchant directly and all charges should be processed through the billing API.

We require that you make the required changes as soon as possible to ensure all future payments are handled through our billing API. This would include redirecting any current merchants to select their plan and re-approve the new subscription through the Billing API and ensuring that all new merchants are billed through the API.

Shopify has also recently rolled out an annual subscription feature on the Billing API that makes the yearly subscription event easier on the API.

Additionally, we will require a report of the merchants who have been billed outside of the Billing API and retroactive revenue share payment for any/all qualifying 20% revenue dated January 2019 - Present.

Once the report has been reviewed, we will reach out with next steps on how to submit the transfer of funds to Shopify via wire transfer."

Pretty ironic too when you've got Shopify's CEO tweeting about the unfair 30% cut Apple wants: https://twitter.com/tobi/status/1362411841943711744

[lxe]

Not a surprising practice, but:

> Pretty ironic too when you've got Shopify's CEO tweeting about the unfair 30% cut Apple wants: https://twitter.com/tobi/status/1362411841943711744

That's pretty hypocritical

[varispeed]

I have noticed a pattern these days - people publicly criticise certain behaviours and then they do exactly what they criticise. They think that majority of people won't actually verify that and such message will embed a positive impression about that person. Then you have people rather lie to themselves rather than accept that they were wrong, so if they later find out that those people actually were doing what they spoke against, they will dismiss it and rather keep the embedded good image. It's fascinating. I wonder if there were any studies about that as it seems like so many organisations or people exploit this these days.

[mchusma]

The author misunderstands some of the complaints against Apple. In this case: (1) Apple is effectively a monopoly, much more so than shopify. (2) the author can still sell to customers your SAAS service, just not through the shopify store. (3) I could be wrong but I believe the shopify store brings lots of customers. For most developers on the app store, apple does not bring customers (this is why many people argue that apple might take a higher cut for those who find your app on a chart, and a lower cut for just using the link or branded search).

If they don't believe the inbound flow is worth it, then just selling direct to customers should make sense.

[brauhaus]

I had the feeling he was complaining about the value amount, not the exclusivity requirement.

It's pretty hypocrital but still... Sort of hypocrital

[jitbit]

Here's an interesting angle: Shopify apps literally make money for Shopify even without the 20%.

Since these apps are mostly marketing (upsells, abandoned cart reminders, upgrades etc), they drive sellers' revenue = they literally bring more profits for Shopify, or am I missing something?

[neycoda]

I don't understand how Apple can expect to charge 30% when the user is not buying from the app developer, but just using the app to purchase from a seller through the app developers app and store... Shopify doesn't have 30% margin to give to Apple, do they? That doesn't seem right to charge that to Shopify when they're not selling an app feature directly to the user.

[dheera]

I mean, Tim Cook wants his cake and the Shopify CEO wants his cake too, so the hippocracy is expected.

[mfost]

Is it impossible to reach and provide your service to Spotify merchants without going through the Spotify app store? If yes it's hypocritical, if not then the situation is totally different than what is going on with Apple.

[boringg]

False equivalency here. I get it, dunking on wealthy CEOs is easy and fun, but I would expect better commentary out of hackernews.

[imafish]

I am a Shopify partner through 3 years, paying 20% of my revenue to Shopify, and every time I have been in contact with "partner support" it has been, to put it mildly, an underwhelming experience.

You have to argue your way through an army of outsourced supporters who are equipped with nothing but the public Shopify docs, until you get to a real employee who concludes it with a "sorry, but we can't help".

Some of my issues:

1. If you're not American, you will be forced to hand over 3% of your 80% revenue cut to PayPal. (Unless your MRR cut is >$30k)

2. Sometimes Shopify just kills features, which merchants and partners rely on. Sure, we get a notice that the API will change - but how does that help, when there is no alternative way to achieve the removed functionality? I was lucky enough to get through to someone who knew someone at the dev team, but the response was once again "sorry, you're not a priority".

[deepstack]

Why would any one use Shopify 20% instead of 3 -4 % of stripe? Sounds like Shopify is total rip off.

[mabbo]

> If you're not American, you will be forced to hand over 3% of your 80% revenue cut to PayPal.

That's wild considering they're headquarters is in Ottawa, Canada.

[matt_s]

This is helpful insight into the company.

Offtopic: They are a large Rails shop and apparently are on a hiring binge this year.

It sounds like developers don't really own their app/code, own in the sense of you build, maintain and support it. Working in an organization with support outsourced makes me think they are getting large enough that bureaucracy is growing.

You'd think being an org with lots of engineering they would understand that API support for devs building things on their platform is kinda important and maybe shouldn't be lumped into general support. There are reasons why devs pick Stripe.

[algo_trader]

Off topic:

How much of a revenue bonus would be enough incentive to install a specific shopify/plugin/minor-UI-tweaks addition to your store ?

3%? 10% 1%? Lets assume I can convince you we dont share your data or harm your business.

[thegyppo]

They don't understand the model where SaaS businesses use Shopify as a billing channel on top of their own subscription model, it's all or nothing - they assume that anything in the app store can only use Shopify billing if the user installs via Shopify, which is fair but their billing API has glaring issues:

- App Charges get added to clients bills, you're not getting paid right away (60+ days in some cases) vs getting paid instantly

- If someone doesn't pay their Shopify bill, tough shit you're not getting paid

- Got fraudulent accounts billing via Shopify? They can use your app then never pay anything - fun

- Want to do refunds? Too bad there's no way to do it via the API you have to manually email Shopify then they apply an App Credit (not even a refund) for the customer, then you email them back

- Uninstalling the Shopify App cancels billing, so you lose complete control of your normal downgrade process

- Payments come via PayPal bi monthly :(

There's plenty more, but you're basically losing all the upside of Stripe in exchange for the App Store promotion of your app.

[drsim]

Launch on BigCommerce, where you can use your own billing, and come back and tell us how that went.

Hint: poor conversion rate because merchants need to enter their CC details, and low volume. 20% on Shopify is a steal IMO.

[lnenad]

I mean shopify payments have a lot of drawbacks but not having refunds is not one of them [1]

[1] https://shopify.dev/docs/admin-api/rest/reference/orders/ref...

[boringg]

If I understand this correctly: this OP partner app (not merchant/store) has been evading the Rev Share agreement with Shopify and is complaining because they got caught and are having to pay back their due? And then they are trying to jump on the furor of Apples 30% rev share agreement to get support from other developers - when the cases are completely different?

To me it sounds like this App developer is trying to have their cake and eat it too. FWIW - I am typically on the small developer side of things but this seems like a case of a bad actor trying to couch it in other complaints...

[MrTortoise]

tbh i read it more as yet another example of a platform trying to restrict the rigths of its customers to do every other aspect of their business in the way they choose.

I take your point - and its probably true. BUT when I use what is essentially a glorified website builder to build a site they don't get to tell me who i can put my money through or dictate anything about how i run my business beyond hosting and the builder.

The reality is that it is even more reasons for a business to not build a business that is dependant upon another in this way.

[wooque]

You have to use Shopify Billing for shops that installed your app through app store, but you can have Stripe for apps that installed your app directly through your site for example, that's how business I'm working for is doing.

Basically if you want Shopify App Store customers, you have to give 20% to Shopify, but you still have option of acquiring users yourself through your site without app store.

Is it fair? Maybe not, but that's a deal. Apple users on the other hand don't have option of installing apps without app store, so comparison is not valid.

[victorNicollet]

The Shopify terms state that if your application accesses the Shopify API and is used by two or more merchants, then you have to give 20% to Shopify.

Do you have any references on there being an exception for apps not installed through the store ? I would be very interested.

[kevincox]

This seems pretty reasonable to me. If you don't like the deal you can still target these customers. 20% cut for advertising, billing and other features sounds like a deal that many people would (and do) take.

I would be much more bothered by the 20% cut if there was no other way to target these customers.

[6gvONxR4sf7o]

Why compare users who may or may not use Shopify’s app store with people who definitely use apple? People don’t have the choice to use the apple App Store without paying the 30% cut, but they have the choice to not use apple. People don’t have the choice to use the Shopify App Store without paying the 20% cut, but they have the choice to not use Shopify.

Also, I just bought an audiobook last night on my iphone through the browser, and presumably apple didn’t get a cut. I think Shopify’s cut and apple’s cut are fair analogies here.

[addictedcs]

If you delist your Shopify app from the app store you will not have to pay the 20% monthly commission from the new customers. It also means your app is private, and you will have to invest in your distribution channel now. Shopify stores can install it as a Private App, which means you will need to find new customers on your own.

On a different note, I wouldn't recommend building an app that is strongly integrated into the Shopify platform due to a myriad of reasons.

Shopify App store will not give you enough exposure to grow your customer base naturally, you will have to invest in your distribution channel anyways, but now you are tied to a 20% commission since your app is public.

App store ranking system is heavily tuned towards the rate of installations your app has, which means products that offer free, or very cheap pricing plans are getting to the front page. If you offer free or very cheap pricing you will get inundated with customer support requests. The biggest chunk of Shopify customers, have very little understanding how to run an e-commerce store. Handling these requests will be a nightmare. This also means that the Shopify App store is not used anymore by stores that are running on Professional or Shopify Plus platforms, since it is full of apps that are borderline scam, and they can't find valuable services by a simple search.

Shopify understands this as well, that's why they've created Shopify Plus Certified App Store https://www.shopify.com/plus/partners/technology, which is essentially a curated Shopify App store targeting customers who are not afraid of paying money for valuable services. Getting there is not easy since the certification process is not transparent (we've applied but not heard anything from Shopify since then).

Also, Shopify integrates new features into its platform every year getting into more and more verticals. This essentially means that if you build an app that provides important e-commerce functionality, Shopify will probably release the same feature integrated natively into their platform.

All in all, don't bet on the Shopify App Store distribution channel, it is just not worth it.

[throwaway93434]

There's a difference between delisting your app from the Shopify App Store and making it private (now called custom). A delisted app still needs to use Shopify's billing system and pay the 20% fee even if you find new customers yourself. If your Shopify app is private (custom) then it doesn't need to use Shopify's billing system but then it can't be installed by more than 1 merchant. So Shopify has basically created a catch 22. If you want your app to be installed by more than 1 merchant even if it's not on the Shopify App Store then you're required to pay them a fee. For reference, Shopify made this change at the end of 2019: https://www.shopify.com/partners/blog/shopify-public-apps

[blueblisters]

Shopify is really terrible when it comes to partner support. The documentation is terrible and if you want to use their API, be prepared to bang your hand against the wall for their design choices. Partners are not Shopify's actual customers of course, but Shopify wants partners to make up for all the shortcomings of the platform without making appropriate tools and support available.

In your particular case, if I understand correctly, Shopify wants you to bill customers for App store purchases through their platform. I don't think that's wrong - most marketplaces expect a cut of the revenue you make off their platform.

[ponny]

These aren't purchases via their app store (I don't know if you can even do that?). They're within our webapp using Shopify's billing API to buy stuff. The Shopify integration is just used for discovery (via their app store), login, installation, email integration, and of course billing.

[shafyy]

I'm not a Shopify partner, but it looks like this is nothing new or suprising, and clearly stated in their terms. Why are you suprised or pissed off?

Or maybe I don't understand how exactly you use Stripe in connection to Shopify. Can you tell us more about what your app does and how you use Stripe?

[piyush_soni]

Just because Apple also has everything "written down" in their terms, but Shopify CEO is pissed off by them. Also, because they're asking for the commission retroactively for any billing they have done bypassing their API.

[Number157]

Because they're paying for a platform to deliver services and the platform then tries to dictate how they run their business. It's questionable at best and should perhaps be illegal.

[tomcooks]

Sorry to be blunt but what do you expect to happen when you breach ana partner agreement you've read and signed?

It's the walled path you and other merchants paved, but nothing is stopping you right now from making your own store on a personal site I think? If you need one let me know how I can help you.

[pmx]

He's not a merchant he's an app developer with a saas that shopify merchants can use.

[foxhop]

I built an alternative for my wife called MakePostSell https://www.makepostsell.com

Right now it only works for digital downloads but I'm planning to build out shipping and local pickup options for physical goods.

Currently in beta but my wife is using the platform in production here: https://shop.printableprompts.com

The only payment processor at this time is stripe.

My thought is to allow people to bring their own domain, Stripe API keys, PayPal, and S3 bucket or digital Ocean spaces (for files, attachments, thumbnails, preview files, and products.

I want to disrupt and keep pricing very competitive for small shops (potentially even a free entry-level plan)

Hope this helps you feel less trapped.

Click the "New Shop" button to try the beta.

[yarcob]

Your welcome page doesn't mention VAT, so I am going to assume that you do not handle VAT. This makes your product unsuitable for anyone in Europe.

There are other solutions for digital products that take lower commissions, for example FastSpring (would not recommend) or MyCommerce (no experience).

They are probably not as sleek as Shopify, but their rates are around 5-9% (depending on how big average orders are), and they handle VAT and invoicing so you don't end up having to pay a lot of back taxes when the authorities audit your business.

They are built for selling software, but work just as well for ebooks etc.

[A4ET8a8uTh0]

Thank you for sharing this.

Having looked into it recently, the current pricing for online merchants is just excessive. Unless you are selling an item with a ridiculous margin, it is hard to keep up. And it isn't just Shopify and companies of the same type. Online marketplaces are about as bad in terms of trying to capture bigger slice of the pie.

I will keep watching your project.

[globile]

Worth mentioning Shopify uses Stripe. A few months back they introduced their Shopify Payment Module (at least in Europe) which runs on Stripe, which then overrides and disables the standalone legacy Stripe module. You can't have both, and they don't straight up tell you this when you try their module.

They now absorb the commission into their pricing. Once you disable your standalone Stripe integration, it disappears and they only way to get it back is to cry to support.

[tmikaeld]

I'm sorry but Shopify has always been focused on profit and lock-in, which is why they don't allow tools that move customers away from the platform and will stop paying resellers (all) their recurring commission if you don't add enough new customers to the platform every year.

And now your stepping on their transaction profits which are substantial, considering the amounts they process.

[lpmusix]

wow, they hold seller's data hostage?

[casperb]

This was always the case with the Shopify App Store. They were more loose in using other payment systems, as long as you payed them their 20% by wire transfer. Since end of 2019 they give that permission to almost nobody.

It is also a big piece of the verification process for the App Store. So maybe you added Stripe later and now they found it?

Did you have a written waiver that you could charge another way? That is required at least since ~2015.

[ponny]

Nah, we've had Stripe since 2013. Added Shopify billing in 2016 (which was a nightmare using their old API). We'll be too small for an exemption/wire transfer method.

[sl120]

I've used Shopify a few times and it's clear they're trying to be an Apple for e e-commerce. Slick and easy set up with strong lock in and high fees.

As a result, I'll advise clients to use Shopify for a POC perhaps but then to put money aside to build their own system when they gain some traction. And I'm starting to wonder if there's a market for someone to build the Android equivalent of Shopify because this pisses me off royally. Especially when non-US customers pay the same fees but have less features for some unknown reason.

[Mauricebranagh]

If Shopify want to do that they had better up their game other wise larger brands will just walk.

They need to start paying attention to core web vitals stat.

[Jsharm]

What do you recommend instead?

[JMTQp8lwXL]

This isn't a particularly surprising occurrence, is it? For better or worse, it sounds like them defending their moat: which is exactly what any company would do.

[jameslk]

Can you create a private app for each of your customers? I know it would be a lot more challenging and you wouldn't get free marketing from Shopify's app store, but from my understanding private apps aren't subject to Shopify's commission and at least you would have more control over your business.

https://www.shopify.com/partners/terms#section-c2-2

> Unless otherwise indicated in this Agreement or agreed to by Shopify in writing, under the App Plan, an App Developer is entitled to eighty percent (80%) of the total revenues from the sale of, subscription to or charges relating to the Public Application, with Shopify being entitled to the remaining twenty percent (20%).

https://www.shopify.com/legal/api-terms

> “Public Application” means an Application that accesses the Shopify API via an API Client and that is made available to Merchants either via a URL or through the Shopify App Store, and that is not a Custom Application.

> “Private Application” means an Application that accesses the Shopify API via Private API Credentials and is made available to a single Merchant.

[derrickchao]

You could in theory, but this requires having each merchant go into their admin and manually grant you scopes and then copy/paste the api key and secret to you. Definitely not a scalable way to go about it.

[beshrkayali]

Shopify is a terrible experience overall, and I wouldn't recommend it for anyone looking to start a quick ecom business online, especially if you don't have technical experience _or_ you don't plan exactly what you'll do if you grow over it. I had to work with some clients that wanted to move away from Shopify and I was surprised at how certain types of paccounts are required to access certain parts of the API for their store. For example, you could retrieve orders but not promocodes, or not users, I can't remember exactly now, but they either had to pay more or put up with CSV parsing with limited amount of information and details. These services would probably not have had the "success" they're seeing if it wasn't for these dark patterns they implement to ex(tract|tort) money from their most likely non-technical clientele.

With that being said, I don't see a problem in requiring their users to use a specific PSP that makes more business sense for them. But yes, like other have pointed out, it's way up there on the hypocrisy chart to do this while complaining about Apple. Apple's 30% cut is not unfair, neither is theirs.

[smaryjerry]

Sadly there aren’t a lot of better options. Spotify has to be the worst bang for your buck option though if you actually have customers. The most basic functionality sucks without apps so you have to get them and sure most apps are “free” until you actually get customers but then you get slammed with fees. Wordpress is similar where if you want it to actually perform like a half decent store you need to pay for a ton of add-ons but it’s even worse because even if you have no customers you have to pay for the addons.

[melomal]

The insane growth the stock has had needs to be kept propped up for the shareholders to be happy. More profit = more shareholder value and that's that. Once you IPO, forget about any and all startup grandiose values that was created on inception to help the 'little' guy. Shopify will be the new Yelp with their mafia style tactics.

[mariust]

Why is it ok in software to pay a 20% - 30% commission? Imagine if your car dealer would ask an extra 30%

Ok, ok I get it, it's not a physical product but still people get paid to work on it and develop it, and there are income taxes and all that, but really 20-30%?!?!

If you sell a product chances are your profit margin is 20-30% and that it's good, but here in software we have to do a cut for 20-30%, well again 10% it's not going to buy all the fancy tech and spaces in expensive parts of the world.

[smaryjerry]

It’s not cheap sending a few bytes through the internet. It takes... uh... some storage and bandwidth on the order of several dollars to have a website simply show your app.. yea.. this is what happens when marketplaces have monopolies, even if they are essentially self imposed monopolies by the customers simply being to lazy to search for things elsewhere.

[LukaszWiktor]

Unfortunatelly, big corps have the power to impose their own taxes. Google, Apple, Shopify, Upwork, ...

[evgen]

If your profit margin on a software product is only 30% you have absolutely no business being in business.

[secondo]

Don’t try to equate Shopify’s app distribution to Apple’s. They’re not the same.

Apple charges commission for your paid application regardless of distribution form because there is only one and you have to use it, the AppStore. Shopify has an optional distribution platform for apps which they charge a fee for. You can distribute your app on your own and avoid the fee.

[victorNicollet]

This is absolutely not the wording of the Shopify terms.

If your application 1. uses the Shopify API and 2. is sold to more than one Shopify customer, then Shopify takes 20% of your revenue. Presence on the optional distribution platform is not necessary.

[nickjj]

Some folks have mentioned that this can't be compared to Apple because as a Shopify app creator you have the option to distribute the app on your own platform to avoid the 20% fee.

But in an eco-system driven platform I don't think having a choice matters in the end.

If users are trained that the best place to install apps is through the app store and there's a huge marketing effort put in place by the app store that you can only trust apps from that store, etc., etc. then it almost doesn't matter if there's an alternative because users immediately associate non-app store apps as being very bad and should be avoided at all costs.

I don't use Shopify currently but I imagine the work flow for adding a new app to your store starts with you searching the app store for whatever type of app you want because it's built into the platform. Then you start narrowing down results based on demo videos, features and reviews until you find something you're happy with.

Going outside of the app store doesn't even come up because most app types probably have dozens of decent choices on the app store. Even if you decided to Google around most of the top hits will be apps from the app store because Shopify's SEO is very likely going to be better than yours.

The only way someone will discover and use your app outside of the app store is you have already have a massive following and trust that you're not a bad actor looking to do something shady by avoiding the app store (because this is what users are trained to think) and your app is leaps and bounds better than anything that exists on the app store so that users are willing to take the risk to go with your non-official app. That doesn't seem like it would happen very often.

Does anyone have a wildly successful Shopify app that's not on the app store?

To me this feels like an illusion of choice because yes technically you have the option but realistically the outcome is the same as having no option.

[smaryjerry]

That seems to be the case. Even Android allowing apps outside their store to be installed but you have to find 5 more buttons in settings to click to get there causes people to just not do it.

[tomaszs]

From a user perspective it is better for me to have one invoice from Shopify, in the right format with all necessary information and with additional tax documents required by law.

If I had to set up payments for each extension and go through gathering invoices and documents it would be devastating.

So as long as I understand the author I also understand why Shopify wants the billing API to be used.

Also easy pay = more users ...

[victorNicollet]

On the other hand, if you pay $2000/month for some other service, you may be unhappy with having to pay an additional $500 just to have it connect to Shopify to expose some data.

[amelius]

Anti-competition laws need an upgrade in this world of platform economies.

[drsim]

Or, 'Shopify says follow the terms you agreed to when you signed up or get booted from their app store'

[villgax]

How are you surprised? If you have billing sorted for your SaaS, why do you even need Shopify for?

[mjgs]

Generally speaking it is very surprising for a merchant of any product to require that you not use a competing product in order to use their product.

[teen]

plugins, fulfillment, order tracking, the UI. it does way more than billing.

[paaaaaaaaaa]

We (stannp.com) created an app for the shopify marketplace some time ago which helped shops send letters and postcards to their customers. The app would sync recipients with our platform or trigger mail to be posted. The shopify rep said we had to implement their billing API on across our whole platform so they get a 30% (i'm sure it was 30% back then) cut on all transactions. It drove me crazy because I saw mailchip in the marketplace and I'm pretty sure they didn't implement the shopify billing API and give 30% for their subscriptions.

[oatmale]

The official mailchimp app was also removed from the Shopify app store for not complying with the terms. Shopify doesn't care who you are, everyone is on the same terms now.

[brauhaus]

That's more common than you think.

If the world is ever dominated by aliens it won't be due to their superior firepower, but because some human accepted their EULA/ T&C without reading.

[BLanen]

Software has ironically only led to more and more vertical and horizontal integration while evangelists had been predicting the utopian opposite while ignoring the warning signs.

[oblio]

Extremistan, see Black Swan by Taleb.

[yannoninator]

Shopify's subscription apps with their newly released subscription API is also woeful, not surprised of this outcome.

The subscription apps on the App Store are suited for physical goods (coffee beans, etc) rather than digital (membership, gift subscription, saas, etc.) which is what is driving the subscription economy.

So building a digital membership platform on Shopify makes no sense, unless you consider sending shoes as a subscription to someone on a regular basis a 'digital membership'.

[colbertpetru]

They passed the point of no return as soon as they started giving out business loans via Shopify Capital. This backlash against lock-in strategies will continue to dog Shopify.

[sergiotapia]

Are you surprised by this? It's like going on Upwork and offering to charge customers less by direct invoice instead of their Upwork charging service lol come on son

[zhiQ]

If in glasshouse, then do not to throw stones.

[keithnz]

Do think this is unjust? I'm a bit confused, I thought that was the whole point/business model of Shopify?

[xiwenc]

Doubt there is anything you can do. Should have read the contract/terms before getting in bed with them.

If your business has grown you could evaluate to move off the shopify platform. And figure out best way to handle this fine/charge.

[cush]

Sounds like you signed a B2B partnership agreement and didn't read it...

[rbobby]

* 20% *

Holy cow.

[airhead969]

20% of gross is typically 40% of net (since it can't be paid for by anyone else but the merchant) at 100% markup. That's like lending 40% of equity to your electric company.

I don't understand why any business would willingly do that other than business ignorance or technical laziness.

[MattGaiser]

How exactly did you think Shopify made money?

[neycoda]

Kind of hard your tiny text in gray on yellow on a 6" phone screen... HN needs a UI revamp.

[umen]

Why not setup store of your own ? and keep all your profite (minus stripe transaction fee)

[Axsuul]

There's lots of confusion in this thread. OP is not talking about a Shopify store but rather an app they developed that integrates with Shopify stores.

[parentheses]

why are you surprised?

shopify is a platform that monetizes selling things. no company would allow the kind of freedom you seek. if that's what you want, build your own website and use stripe. it's not that hard.

[kerng]

This sounds like a phishing mail even, at least the way it's written.

[Erlich_Bachman]

Well... it's in their terms, isn't it? What is the news here?

[mortdeus]

didn't apple just say they are going to cut their charge in half?

[rdtwo]

Shopify billing is such shit that only bots can checkout high demand items. People literally have bots scan all Shopify sites and buy up any In demand item before a real customer can even add it to cart.

[55555]

Kinda funny because Shopify pay is powered by Stripe.

[Graffur]

Not surprising but interesting nonetheless.

[forgingahead]

What does this mean? Even if you use the Shopify API but are not on their App store, you have to use Shopify billing?

[joelbluminator]

Forgive me for hijacking the discussion but it seems Rails CAN scale right?

[Puts]

I could see a lot of reason why Shopify would more or less be force to do this. If the transaction appears to be initiated on their site they may both be liable for PCI DSS and GDPR.

[Shadonototro]

You signed a contract that explitly says you have to use their billing API

You choosed their platform, and you agreed with that, so why do you complain now?

EDIT:

Title should be renamed to: "Shopify asks users to comply with contract they signed when joining the platform"

[cush]

Seriously though. It's proper B2B, not Facebook ads. The fact that the Shopify platform is so customizable that it allows integration of 3p billing says a lot about how they view their customers.

Salesforce uses a similar model

[airhead969]

I don't understand the basis of this complaint. They knowingly went around the Shopify rev share by using their own payment gateway. Seems like Shopify called them out for misbehaving.

Anyhow: For larger shops, self-host and find a good payment gateway. SaaS that takes a percentage will bleed you dry.

[papertokyo]

For larger shops, the pricing for SaaS platforms like Shopify and friends is less than 0.5% of GMV.

If that's too much, the business has bigger problems that certainly won't be solved by self-hosting or maintaining their own homegrown backend.

[hahahahe]

I still don’t understand why people use Shopify. And on top of that people equate them to being the next Amazon. Boggles my mind.

[boringg]

As a merchant (not developer) you own your own clients, your storefront and can run seamlessly IRL and online on Shopify - at least thats the pitch. Shopify doesn't suggest to your clients to go buy from another merchant.

In the case of Amazon you own nothing so as a merchant you are thrown into a marketplace where Amazon controls everything and Amazon can take your best products and then make knock offs of them and undercut your sales. Totally different companies - not in the same ball park (Amazon is way bigger then Shopify, don't fall for the false narrative)

[mehphp]

Because for all of their faults, it's dead simple to get your on store up and running.

[tubularhells]

What is a good alternative to Shopify for a small webstore? I don't want to pay a 20% cut.

[jcheng]

IIUC, the 20% cut does not apply to web stores, it's for SaaS vendors who want to offer a plugin to Shopify web store owners, via Shopify's App Store.

[tebbers]

I think there's some confusion here. This topic is about developers selling apps via the Shopify App Store, not about how much you pay Shopify to run an online ecommerce store.

Shopify charge a monthly fee for their online ecommmerce stores, and they don't take a 20% cut for that.

[kureikain]

If you know a bit of coding I would advise to use SpreeCommerce. I used it very succesfully in the past.

[wysewun]

Craft commerce is a great platform but not ready to run like Shopify

[yannoninator]

WooCommerce?

[nudpiedo]

It’s the TOS, and after some social platforms were kicked out of big Corp hostings and app stores because of Trump’s scandal, I don’t think there is much you can do aside of sucking it up and planning a well thought migration out of their service.

[soulchild37]

I don't get why people downvoted you. I make Shopify apps too and I abide to the same TOS.

OP clicked "I have read and agree" on the TOS when signing up and they are now complaining that the fees are unreasonable?!

[aurizon]

I will never - ever use Shopify again. To extract 20% from a vendor of physical goods is criminal. BTW, I buy zero Apple products either - I will not take part in highway robbery...

[Germanika]

As others have mentioned, this post is about Shopify apps, not Shopify stores. I'd recommend doing a bit more research before deciding to boycott a company. They're absolutely not taking a 20% cut from sales of physical goods, this isn't Uber Eats.

[boris9999]

How is this a problem? Are all marketplaces bad? Were you forced to sell there?

You chose to sell your app on their marketplace and agreed to their TOS and pricing. They provide you with access to their marketplace and you agree to pay them 20%. Were you aware that these are the terms and broke them anyway?

It's like an Uber diver who will start charging cash without going through the Uber app to avoid paying Uber. Or maybe start a McDonald's franchise and hide all the profits. Not to mention paying taxes to the government...

Apple controls the iOS platform, so it's a different case. Shopify does not prevent you from selling on your own website and taking 100% of the profits.