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jblow | 5 years ago

Hi,

When I saw this announcement I was hoping that I could finally buy a laptop with a good trackpad, with buttons, and a good keyboard again. But looking at the announcement, it seems like trackpad and keyboard quality are far from anyone's mind, and it just looks like the laptop is copying Apple stylistically like everyone else, which means it is going to be kind-of unusable and I won't want to use it. (Especially when running Windows, those kinds of giant Apple-esque trackpads are death, because you'll keep accidentally moving files into places you didn't mean to, and then of course there's the general unresponsiveness once you add all the PalmCheck and turn-off-trackpad-for-n-secons after typing junk).

I like the idea of a laptop built for quality, but for me the #1 determinant of quality is my area of constant physical contact with the laptop, the keyboard and trackpad. And sadly, those look like afterthoughts here.

(For context -- I have bought and heavily used an average of more than one laptop per year, every year, since 1998, and have been dismayed to watch the quality trend constantly downward over that time).

discuss

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nrp|5 years ago

Keyboard and touchpad quality were high priorities for us. We built in 1.5mm key travel, which is unusually high for a <16mm thick laptop. The touchpad surface feels great and performs well. I hear you on the touchpad buttons though. That is something we've done a little exploration on. The touchpad is an end-user replaceable module, but we can't commit to a three button version materializing just yet.

m463|5 years ago

I think if you could buck the "flat thin keys" trend you would probably develop lots of customers for life.

Thin and flat has nice visual appeal, but I think you should approach it from a tactile direction.

My ideal keyboard would have a little extra throw, and they keys would be sculpted to match the curve of your fingertips for comfort and to help you center on the keys.

I think the thinkpad keyboards were favorites for a reason.

tomtheelder|5 years ago

No buttons is clearly the logical choice. I can't imagine it would be worth building a three button version to satisfy that miniscule niche.

accelbred|5 years ago

Are they mechanical keys?

wishinghand|5 years ago

It's strange to see a complaint about the Apple trackpad, because whenever I use a non-Apple laptop, I despair at the trackpad. The current design is too large, but the pre-USB-C models had a perfect size and UX. I haven't ever experienced an equal.

GordonS|5 years ago

The Apple trackpad seems to be really polarising - I often this see on HN: fans surprised anyone would dislike it, and opponents surprised anyone would like it!

Personally, I'm in the latter camp. I have a 13" MBP, and find the buttons need way too much pressure, even with the sensitivity ramped up. There's also something I can't quantify... there's a feeling of it being laggy, and somehow "unpleasant" to drag my finger across. I prefer just about every other trackpad I've ever used, even those in dirt cheap netbooks.

ppezaris|5 years ago

not intending to start an apple-vs-msft flamewar, but this has been a solved problem on the mac since forever. is the experience that bad on windows laptops that you don't want a big trackpad? genuine question.

yunyu|5 years ago

It is for Synaptics drivers (some manufacturers like Dell, Razer, HP used to default to those) but not for precision touchpad drivers (what's used in the Surfaces).

freeone3000|5 years ago

yeah. you definitely want palm detection off or it'll miss a good deal of swipes (if you mix typing and mousing). with palm detection off, you need the touchpad to be slightly offset to the left and small enough that it fits between your hands at rest.

dcow|5 years ago

In my experience trackpad and touch support on Windows has improved immensely since the introduction of the Surface. I recall the experience you’re describing but associate it with the 2010-2015 era .