This is a game of cat and mouse. Consumers were ahead for a little while, but companies have really gotten a grasp on the internet, and they're winning the information war.
It's no mistake that I've come to rely on brand name again. It's the best heuristic available to me. When all this first started (mid-2000s) I was actively avoiding basing ANY decision on brand name. For a brief window, I had better information, but no more.
> It's no mistake that I've come to rely on brand name again.
I've been saying for awhile, this could be the salvation for brick-and-mortar stores. As long as Amazon continues to play fast and loose with counterfeits, the one thing that will get me to drive down to the store and buy something in-person is the store's guarantee that the product came from the vendor whose name is on the box, and that I can return it if I get a lemon.
> It's no mistake that I've come to rely on brand name again.
Big +1 here. Brand name is a core part of my decision making process at this point. Otherwise, I'm relying on word of mouth. Occasionally, I'll use some of the more "reliable" independent review services.
There are also retailers which actually vet brands. For example anything edible that Target or Walmart or Trader Joe’s or Whole Foods (Amazon ownership notwithstanding) sells in their stores, they actually contract a testing company to test it to make sure that it’s safe. For things where safety is important an actual physical national store is going to be much better than Amazon.
I used to trust Amazon for just about anything I needed to buy, but I'd guess maybe in the last 6-8 years I'll mostly only order something if I recognize the brand name selling me the product.
Tried to buy a pair of cheap-ish bluetooth headphones off there a few months ago. Three different pairs and none of them even worked out of the box. Gave up and bought a more expensive pair from a known brand.
And then there are fakes of brand name products which makes it difficult to even know what you're buying. Personally I started buying things that I used to buy at Amazon locally instead whenever and wherever possible. That might mean a trip to the store but better than not knowing what you get.
This is true in the real world again (still?) too. We're currently stocking up on disinfecting wipes to donate to the school when they open next month. We've been told that the teachers only want brand name Clorox wipes, because they don't trust any other brand to actually disinfect safely.
Why not look at consumer reports (https://www.consumerreports.org/)? I purchased a subscription and use them quite a bit. The problem here is in willingness to pay. If companies are willing to pay to promote their product, you will need to pay to get objective information. Any attempts at free objective information is going to be vulnerable to pollution by those willing to spend resources.
Oh my, I am at the point I only read the 1 star reviews and maybe 2 star reviews. Worse dealing with Amazon is a royal pain when the company fulfilling the order ships the wrong item.
Brand names are a fine method to follow but not when sellers ship the wrong model/version/etc.
I invite people to checkout BestBuy's online shop. Just about every single item has a rating from 4.0 to 4.8 out of 5. I have yet to see a single listing under 4 stars. There are of course, unrated items, but can you honestly believe that virutally every product they carry is nearly perfect? Who actually writes a 5 star review for a no-name brand of tape and cable ties?
When everything is perfect, nothing is, and I don't trust BestBuy's review system at all. I can't help but think there is some kind of false advertising law against fake reviews that they're breaking.
To answer your question about tape and cable ties, BestBuy will offer rewards points for writing reviews and sometimes offers bonus points for certain products.
Im sure they're also doing some review cleaning like Amazon does where if the review is negative they will moderate it more aggressively. After all, badly rated products hurt the entire storefront so it is in their best interest to keep "bad" products off.
But that said I still will trust BestBuy over Amazon. I know items from BestBuy are not being co-mingled with potential knockoffs and returns are pretty easy for items that are terrible.
I spend entirely too much money at Best Buy, and I’ve only written 5 star reviews for products I like. The bad products get immediately returned for a full refund - one of the advantages of buying from a big brick and mortar store. I never think about products I returned, I would prefer not to unless I’m given some incentive to write a bad review. Now, if I were stuck with the item, I’d probably trash it online in their review section.
I think the reality is not just that Best Buy is (maybe) creating fake reviews or removing bad ones, but that most reviewers only rate with 1 star or 5 stars. The majority of reviews I find are in one of those two buckets, and only a handful of nuanced reviews fall in 2-4, effectively making the rating of a non controversial product that does what it’s supposed to - but has lemons - from 4 (meh) to 5 (works as expected).
Almost all online stores seem to be like this. Why would Dell or Lenovo show you products that had anything less than 3.5 stars? There’s a huge conflict of interest in showing reviews of their own products. BestBuy has to sell the inventory they carry, so sure, they will tell you everything is 4-5 stars. Amazon is actually slightly better because they profit no matter which headphones you buy, but then it’s the sellers that are gaming the system. In theory it should be easier to detect.
Even if you didn't feel the reviews were gamed--why would BestBuy leave bad reviews on its site--it would basically be admitting they sell bad products. Ideally maybe they are removing products that get continuous bad reviews before you see them, but generally reviews can't come from the same place you buy items and be trustworthy.
To be honest though, if you were a retailer trying to push the idea that almost any product you sell if cool tech, wouldn't you probably remove most SKUs that are genuinely 2-star products?
I recently bought some sheets. Actually sorting through the sheets on Amazon was a hassle because 90% of the reviews would be obviously fake "best sheets I've ever slept on - 5 stars" and the remaining 10% would be 1-3 star reviews that would be photographs of poor fabric or tears in the arriving product.
It is almost impossible to buy quality goods online and I'm afraid that is just going to get worse.
What is also strange is when comparing "different" offerings they sometime turn out to be exactly the same product, just with a slightly different picture/text and a (sometimes substantial) price difference.
For products like iPhone cases it feels like there is one factory in China which produces a few different models, which lead to the 200 offerings you'll see when searching for one at Amazon.
Maybe re-phrase the question - I ONLY trust negative reviews now. The key is to see how many people have negative reviews and then scan them.
Let's say I am interested in a BBQ Grill.
10 reviews about an open box/returned box? I'll probably go to a local CampingWorld and pick it up instead of Amazon and pay the extra $50.
4 people say the grill grate is bent but there are 1200 other reviews that don't seem to have a problem? Low chance I'm going to get the bent grill grate.
There are a ton of Facebook groups out there whose sole purpose is to shove $$$ into paid reviews on Amazon (or Yelp, or other review sites). Could be a bunch of college kids looking to make a quick buck, or maybe some broken-English dude from some 3rd world country who actually made it their full time job. I don't know, but that's not the point.
The point is: you can literally buy Amazon reviews (or Yelp reviews, or ... any kind of review really) from Facebook groups, if you know where to look.
That won't last long, negative reviews will get flooded by glowing reviews with trivial complaints. "This thing is perfect except I don't like green so 1/5"
I've found that instead of looking for positive reviews I'll first search for negative reviews. Can't really trust the professional reviewers because they have an incentive to bend the truth. But you also can't really trust casual reviewers because it's so easy to game the system. Sometimes I'll look at places like Reddit for product reviews but you can't even really trust that anymore because more and more companies have started to understand the value of viral marketing on social media. So it seems like the only thing you can really trust are the negative reviews.
And you can’t really trust those either since companies will review competitor’s products negatively. These days I just ask coworkers and friends and family
Reviews and rankings are broken across the industries. For products I usually start my journey at NYT Wirecutter https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/.
I was also recently looking for a place at Apartments.com, as I learned all places get 5 star ranking to start, and it’s of course not clear at all in the UX. I think at the moment google maps does pretty good job with rankings.
The other 60% claim that they were already at zero trust in 2016. I think that they are exaggerating their distrust and I reject the idea that there could be a third option.
I mean, when articles point out clear scams with thousands of 5-star reviews, how can a lowly honest person compete?
Similarly, what can you possibly do if someone with deep pockets decides to trash your competing product’s reviews?
Also, in my experience at least, the overwhelming majority of real customers do not submit reviews at all. Thus I am skeptical of any product that has miraculously convinced thousands of people to contribute positive feedback.
At this point, every single review system acts more like a tool to help scam people, instead of helping them to avoid bad products. It pushes bad products to the top of search, whereas unrated products would be forced to scam a handful of people in obscurity.
And the worst part is that I still think twice about any low review, even knowing that in all likelihood the reviews I am reading may not even be real! It really messes with your head.
I use niche (<2M subs) YouTube channels like ProjectFarm[0] to decide between products these days. Huge YouTube channels are no longer trustworthy as I've noticed they will shill for whatever "opportunity" comes knocking (MatPat recently did an interview with Dr. Fauci[1] on his The Game Theorists channel, and while I didn't disagree with the content of the video, it raised some red flags in my mind because it was obviously content that didn't fit into the channel...)
You can't even search for information about products anymore. All that shows up is affiliate spam pages that read like they were generated from a ML algorithm.
It's infuriating. I've noticed the auto-generated pages especially when searching using patterns of the form "X vs. Y". Half the links will just be auto-generated pages that show the specs side by side along with some ML-tinged paragraphs above to make it seem like the article was written by a human. (but after reading a few sentences it obviously wasn't)
The internet is making everything winner take all. Off the first page of Google? You don’t exist. Not on first page of Amazon for “Bluetooth headphones”? You don’t exist. That’s why companies will pay so much to game whatever system gets them to the top rank, which is only further reinforced when people buy/click that top product/result. This is a hard problem to solve but I think there needs to be a way of segmenting the results you see, perhaps more highly weighting the opinions of others similar (in preferences) to you.
Just had an Amazon vendor offer me the full value of my purchase (in Amazon gift cards) to change my review from 3 stars to four. On one hand, it's great customer service, but on the other the product is still really a three star product.
I use the FakeSpot extension for the Brave browser. Works with any Chrome based browser.
Uses AI to analyze reviews as well as the reviewers other reviews. Then it gives a letter grade from A to F that rates the trustworthiness of the reviews.
I recently canceled my Amazon prime subscription after having it for almost a decade. The final straw was Amazon removing the ability to comment on reviews. First, they remove the ability to see the comments using the mobile site, then they remove them all together saying that not as many people were utilizing it. Unfortunately, those comments were a good litmus test to the authenticity of a review - positive or negative - and gave insight to the responsiveness of the seller. Some comments on reviews even had instructions on how to solve the reviewer's problem from experts in the field, it’s all lost now.
I don't understand the need to mistrust online reviews. They are all 100% accurate and only published by people who are completely authoritative in their segment. I find online reviews to be objective and informed, while providing deep insight into the inner workings of that which is being reviewed. They always express an unbiased approach, and in my expert opinion, everyone should trust online reviews. A++++++ would do business again. You can trust me on this!
For me, the biggest issue I have is book ratings on Amazon.
Besides companies - and small time authors - paying for good ratings, you have a similar amount of people that genuinely bought the book, giving 1 start ratings because of whatever quality of the book manufacture, be it physical or digital.
One of these two alone would not be difficult to manage, but having to deal the two makes it almost unbearable to find out the proper rating. We should start giving ratings ratings.
In Germany there's Stiftung Warentest [1] which offers reviews without the apparent conflict of interest. They release paid articles with review and comparison all kinds of items. I find their offering a breeze of fresh air compared to the dumpster fire that online reviews have become.
Can't you literally request for any negative review to be removed in Germany as it 'hurts your business' by law? I live here and that's the explanation I've been given when negative reviews disappear .
Instead of measuring how powerful or influential you are - it could instead be used to prove your honesty, trustworthiness, identity in some kind of anonymous way, etc...
[+] [-] everdrive|5 years ago|reply
This is a game of cat and mouse. Consumers were ahead for a little while, but companies have really gotten a grasp on the internet, and they're winning the information war.
It's no mistake that I've come to rely on brand name again. It's the best heuristic available to me. When all this first started (mid-2000s) I was actively avoiding basing ANY decision on brand name. For a brief window, I had better information, but no more.
[+] [-] AdmiralAsshat|5 years ago|reply
I've been saying for awhile, this could be the salvation for brick-and-mortar stores. As long as Amazon continues to play fast and loose with counterfeits, the one thing that will get me to drive down to the store and buy something in-person is the store's guarantee that the product came from the vendor whose name is on the box, and that I can return it if I get a lemon.
[+] [-] fearling|5 years ago|reply
Big +1 here. Brand name is a core part of my decision making process at this point. Otherwise, I'm relying on word of mouth. Occasionally, I'll use some of the more "reliable" independent review services.
[+] [-] spoonjim|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sharkweek|5 years ago|reply
Tried to buy a pair of cheap-ish bluetooth headphones off there a few months ago. Three different pairs and none of them even worked out of the box. Gave up and bought a more expensive pair from a known brand.
[+] [-] tobib|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jedberg|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rsj_hn|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Shivetya|5 years ago|reply
Brand names are a fine method to follow but not when sellers ship the wrong model/version/etc.
[+] [-] BitwiseFool|5 years ago|reply
When everything is perfect, nothing is, and I don't trust BestBuy's review system at all. I can't help but think there is some kind of false advertising law against fake reviews that they're breaking.
[+] [-] dawnerd|5 years ago|reply
Im sure they're also doing some review cleaning like Amazon does where if the review is negative they will moderate it more aggressively. After all, badly rated products hurt the entire storefront so it is in their best interest to keep "bad" products off.
But that said I still will trust BestBuy over Amazon. I know items from BestBuy are not being co-mingled with potential knockoffs and returns are pretty easy for items that are terrible.
[+] [-] marcosdumay|5 years ago|reply
Yeah, I'm aware that is not what is happening there, but you seeing no item lower than 4.0 is not a certain and general sign of fraud.
[+] [-] akramer|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jwagenet|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] boatsie|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rhino369|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] undefined1|5 years ago|reply
it makes the system completely useless.
[+] [-] tenebrisalietum|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] vel0city|5 years ago|reply
I also agree its hard to trust online reviews, but we don't need to throw out falsehoods about how every product is 4+ stars.
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/ge-7-8-cu-ft-10-cycle-electric-...
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/whirlpool-7-4-cu-ft-36-cycle-el...
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/combo/washer-dryer-bundles/d40c...
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/hisense-32-class-h55-series-led...
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/furrion-49-class-led-outdoor-fu...
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/jam-been-there-wireless-on-ear-...
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/tcl-mtro-series-mtro200btbl-wir...
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/sennheiser-ie-80-s-bt-wireless-...
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/supersonic-7-tablet-8gb-black/6...
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/azpen-10-touch-screen-tablet-an...
To be honest though, if you were a retailer trying to push the idea that almost any product you sell if cool tech, wouldn't you probably remove most SKUs that are genuinely 2-star products?
[+] [-] OhSoHumble|5 years ago|reply
It is almost impossible to buy quality goods online and I'm afraid that is just going to get worse.
[+] [-] niklasd|5 years ago|reply
For products like iPhone cases it feels like there is one factory in China which produces a few different models, which lead to the 200 offerings you'll see when searching for one at Amazon.
[+] [-] my_usernam3|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 99_00|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] akvadrako|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] coding123|5 years ago|reply
Let's say I am interested in a BBQ Grill.
10 reviews about an open box/returned box? I'll probably go to a local CampingWorld and pick it up instead of Amazon and pay the extra $50.
4 people say the grill grate is bent but there are 1200 other reviews that don't seem to have a problem? Low chance I'm going to get the bent grill grate.
Things like that.
[+] [-] dragontamer|5 years ago|reply
https://www.amzfinder.com/blog/top-100-facebook-groups-list-...
There are a ton of Facebook groups out there whose sole purpose is to shove $$$ into paid reviews on Amazon (or Yelp, or other review sites). Could be a bunch of college kids looking to make a quick buck, or maybe some broken-English dude from some 3rd world country who actually made it their full time job. I don't know, but that's not the point.
The point is: you can literally buy Amazon reviews (or Yelp reviews, or ... any kind of review really) from Facebook groups, if you know where to look.
[+] [-] kardos|5 years ago|reply
That won't last long, negative reviews will get flooded by glowing reviews with trivial complaints. "This thing is perfect except I don't like green so 1/5"
[+] [-] m463|5 years ago|reply
I would say 3-star reviews are more likely to provide useful information.
[+] [-] briga|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] breckenedge|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 99_00|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kull|5 years ago|reply
I was also recently looking for a place at Apartments.com, as I learned all places get 5 star ranking to start, and it’s of course not clear at all in the UX. I think at the moment google maps does pretty good job with rankings.
[+] [-] quxbar|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] usrusr|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] makecheck|5 years ago|reply
Similarly, what can you possibly do if someone with deep pockets decides to trash your competing product’s reviews?
Also, in my experience at least, the overwhelming majority of real customers do not submit reviews at all. Thus I am skeptical of any product that has miraculously convinced thousands of people to contribute positive feedback.
At this point, every single review system acts more like a tool to help scam people, instead of helping them to avoid bad products. It pushes bad products to the top of search, whereas unrated products would be forced to scam a handful of people in obscurity.
And the worst part is that I still think twice about any low review, even knowing that in all likelihood the reviews I am reading may not even be real! It really messes with your head.
[+] [-] umvi|5 years ago|reply
[0] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2rzsm1Qi6N1X-wuOg_p0Ng
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLIkZRmqgjI
[+] [-] Blackthorn|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] umvi|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ChrisLTD|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] boatsie|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JoshTko|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] roboman|5 years ago|reply
Uses AI to analyze reviews as well as the reviewers other reviews. Then it gives a letter grade from A to F that rates the trustworthiness of the reviews.
Maybe not perfect but very cool!
[+] [-] mumblemumble|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ajdude|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] geocrasher|5 years ago|reply
Yours Truly,
Prince Alyusi Islassis
Nigerian National Petroleum Company
[+] [-] ericol|5 years ago|reply
Besides companies - and small time authors - paying for good ratings, you have a similar amount of people that genuinely bought the book, giving 1 start ratings because of whatever quality of the book manufacture, be it physical or digital.
One of these two alone would not be difficult to manage, but having to deal the two makes it almost unbearable to find out the proper rating. We should start giving ratings ratings.
[+] [-] argiope|5 years ago|reply
[1] https://www.test.de/unternehmen/ (German)
[+] [-] Tenoke|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] whalesalad|5 years ago|reply
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klout
Instead of measuring how powerful or influential you are - it could instead be used to prove your honesty, trustworthiness, identity in some kind of anonymous way, etc...