We have Roblox (kids age 5 and 8). From the start I made a hard "no Robux" rule, which has worked out well so far. This has had a very nice and totally unintended side effect: the kids self select against games that are only fun if you pay.
Eg my youngest likes the clicking simulators. Many of those are awful "pay to win" schemes but some actually have fun game dynamics (not unlike the Paperclip Simulator html game that's an HN favorite[0]). Those are the ones he returns to.
These are the games that are more creative in nature, the games that are more challenging and so on and so forth. I feel that at least 7 out of 10 times I check on them, they're doing a game that involves creation, economics, collaboration, and often multiple of those.
I had that to start with, but now he's older and using the platform to interact with his friends (especially during lockdown), we have relented and now use Robux as incentives for doing chores etc.
I had some fun with my son (age 7) writing python to beat one of the "clicking" games. I wrote the code but he thought my clicking app was like magic. https://automatetheboringstuff.com/chapter18/
Not disagreeing with what you did there. But I gave my kids Robux and talked with them about what they wanted to spend it on and let them learn if it was worth it or not (something persistent like an avatar item or some in game item). It was good for them but honestly they spent a couple of bucks each and stopped asking and just keep looking for games that are fun.
> I feel that at least 7 out of 10 times I check on them, they're doing a game that involves creation, economics, collaboration, and often multiple of those.
Could you recommend a few titles that are worth checking out?
I'm fairly sure you're aware that more than 9 out of 10 kids would find Robux-free Roblox immensely more appealing than whatever economic simulations your preternaturally moderate children are taken with.
Interesting. I just talked to the experts - my 7 year old and 9 year old. They play Roblox sitting side by side on the couch, right beside me. They spend $0 and I just asked them, are you looking to buy anything, and they said "No" you don't need to, but they do know a kid who has spent $100 and is addicted to it (their words, not mine...could be exagerated).
Then again, the 9 year old also has a steam account, and they buy all their games from their $5/week allowance. It's their choice. We do not control what they spend money on.
They made a couple of bad purchased, and cried, and regretted it, but it taught them to be careful. So I guess, you can say, there are ways to letting kids play Roblox and controlling their spending.
And to be fair, it really depends on the kid. Some resist buying impulsively better than others. Also, as an aside, they try to add kids that they know in real life.
They get their video time from 6:15pm until 7:15pm on weekdays. They pick their video time. Whether watching Planet Earth, Youtube, Steam, Roblox, it doesn't matter. BUT, they get 1 hour. Essentially we are trying to give them power of choice, and ability to fail. It's not perfect, but...I guess we're just learning as we go along.
I used to push back had on my kids wanting to buy hats, pets, etc in Roblox. Seemed like a waste of money and I hate microtransactions.
Then I realized that this is literally the only game they play, and it's free. Compare that to me at that age, buying Nintendo games for $50 a pop, why am I hesitant to support these creators with a $2 hat?
I still limit purchases just for general personal finance lessons, but otherwise let them spend money here like they would on actual paid games.
Because it starts with a $2 hat, but quickly escalates into $2 hats 3x a day or even more expensive perks. Once you give into a kid about making purchases, it's a much harder fight to say no the next time.
These games are designed on emotional responses in kid's brains just as much as FB's algo for its feed is.
Makes me think of collectible card games. If I hadn't spent my own pocket money as a kid on MTG, Star Trek CCG and Pokemon, there's no way in hell I would let my kid buy into an obvious scam CCGs are. But I did spend money on them and enjoyed it, so I'm not so sure now.
It's also kind of cool because a lot of the games are created by other kids. Roblox Studio is fun to poke around in and has gotten my 8 year old very interested in programming and to an extent, entrepreneurship.
My 8 and 10 year olds give out their Roblox user names to friends. Most recently at a softball tournament, my little short stop traded names with a few players that she befriended on other teams.
I'm not sure if there is any grand meaning to this, I just thought I'd share a thing I noticed.
All I can say is roblox banned in our home network: the whole user experience is targeted to make children judge each other using wrong incentives and extort money from parents.
On the other hand I have no problems paying children for games with honorable practices of one time purchase or reasonable subscriptions (which usually end in a month in any case when children get bored)
My kids haven't asked to spend a penny, and the play I overhear seems to be largely collaborative - "come visit my theme park and see this cool rollercoaster".
My child is literally making a roblox game right now. I just showed him lua. He is 10. Roblox is a huge gateway into programming. He started on scratch, and now roblox. Next generation of programmers will have learned programming using roblox as kids. I'm impressed with their IDE.
Can you expand on how the experience is targeted to make children judge each other? Has this been something your kid(s) experienced on the platform? Just curious.
> In short, Roblox isn’t a game at all: it is world in which one of the things you can do is play games, with a persistent identity, persistent set of friends, persistent money, all disconnected from the device that you use to access the world. That is the transformational change.
Second Life, The Sims Online. We’ve been here before. Those platforms didn’t nail it like Roblox, but Roblox did not transform anything.
Remember that sweet time when marketing departments of (aspiring to be) trendy companies where rushing to create their "digital presence" in Second Life... Yes, we will interview candidates, meet our business partners, talk to our customers in there, etc. We had a good laugh.
Second Life and The Sims Online are wildly different from Roblox. You're right that the particular sentence you've picked doesn't capture what Roblox did different, but it did transform the building of virtual experiences.
Roblox pisses me off so so much as a parent. There are some good games but it's mostly wading through an ocean of shit. And the vast majority of games that are popular are clickers that incentivize children to pay money to get more for each of their clicks.
And it's full of scams. Kids spend $10 for a hat or something in the game and it doesn't end up working in all the games and there's no recourse. It's a true free-for-all wild-west.
What we can learn from it is: 1. Making games easy to make and distribute. It's honestly amazing what kids are doing these days. I give Roblox a lot of credit for this. 2. Roblox has become an awesome way for kids to communicate with each other, they share their username at the playground.
I now have 5 or so years experience with Roblox in the house. I've helped my kids make games and I have to say, VC is missing out big time. Roblox (or the concept) has an enormous TAM. Roblox corp is struggling with DX DevRel and moderation. It's an absolute fucking zoo and the tools are shit. Major game publishers have had their accounts taken over by scammers, or just shut down by Roblox because of scammers trying to steal their accounts.
Somebody who understands product, gaming, and devrel could really knock this out of the park. Please do it, so I can go back to making games with my kids.
There's a heap of new products in the space. We're building dot big bang (https://www.dotbigbang.com) which is web based so you can play and make multiplayer games on your smart fridge amongst other devices.
If you're interested you can learn more about the company and project here: https://controlzee.com/
Can someone explain to me how Roblox doesn't violate Apple's "no app stores in the App Store" rule? And the rule against running non-JavaScript code not bundled with the app? And probably a bunch of other rules too? The article mentions it but has no sensible explanation. It seems impossible to justify.
Apple gets to pick winners and losers by selective enforcement of their own rules. Pretty nice for Roblox if Apple prevents anyone from releasing a competitor!
Roblox games are really clunky to make on PCs, let alone phones. You'll never be able to make one on a phone. It's crazy clunky.
A third person character running around with virtual joysticks: so clunky.
Roblox has been around longer than smartphones have, it has always been a port, much like Minecraft. Which sure, kids play.
Roblox is probably setting back the arrival of the metaverse, not advancing it. Whatever that means.
If you actually make and play games you don't talk about things that way. You're more aware of stuff like Dreams or Garry's Mod, you've touched stuff like Unity and Unreal and Flash. You kind of get that Roblox isn't competing with Grand Theft Auto but with YouTube Poop. Literal puppet shows. Like what are we even talking about.
As an aside, the biggest threat to Roblox is if parents spent money. I don't mean in Roblox. Surely, you guys understand, that the appeal of Roblox compared to Disney+, arguably the finest destination for 8 year olds, is that, on the face of it, Roblox is "free." It's a catch 22 really: the audience where they would anticipate all their revenue growth would never waste money on Robux, they would just get a Disney+ subscription.
We have Disney+ and Roblox, and my son has hardly any interest in Disney+. It wasn't because of him we got Disney+.
Meanwhile my sons pocket money gets split between V-bucks for Fortnite and Robux, because that is what he wants to spend money on. He could've funded that Disney+ subscription several times over with what he spends on Robux.
I think the things he buys are idiotic, but here's the thing: Over several years, he's never once expressed regret at these purchases. He continues to get enjoyment from it.
A lot of the hate for Roblox I see here feels like parents trying to impose their own preferences on their kids, instead of considering just how idiotic their parents would have found the things they spent money on as kids.
I "waste" a lot of money on Roblox - $30-40/mo. It's where all my kids friends are, and it's a safe space on the internet that I trust as a parent. They build theme parks, space stations, small businesses – it's amazing, silly, and safe.
> Disney+, arguably the finest destination for 8 year olds
Do we really want another generation addicted to consuming big-budget media? Especially now that most of that media is encumbered by DRM that makes free computing platforms much less attractive?
Mind you, I'm not sure that Roblox is the answer. But it might be better, since it at least puts more focus on creating rather than consuming.
>A third person character running around with virtual joysticks: so clunky.
This doesn't bother kids, it's all they know. I cringe watching my niece and nephew playing Minecraft and Roblox on their phones with touchscreen controls but they don't care and can use it fine even if it looks clunky and painful to me.
Does anyone know why the game for kids switched from Minecraft to Roblox? I remember both of them being around when I was younger, yet everyone chose Minecraft. Today, it’s the opposite.
Totally ignorant perspective with perhaps no basis: Seems like Roblox must be successful despite its games, not because. I'm sure there are gems as there are with any user-generated platform, but surely most of the 18 million games are about what you used to get on Xbox Live Indie Games: sloppy little experiments made by, well, kids.
If you’re a parent with a kid that plays Roblox make sure you lock your account down. Creating an account in the iOS app doesn’t require an associated email address. If your kid somehow forgets their password you might not be able to reset it without an associated email address. If their account gets stolen which happened to my daughter and you don’t have an associated email address it can be a real headache to unlock the account and get it back. Also make sure you have two factor authentication enabled. I know this is pretty mundane advice but the fact that Roblox lets you create an account without an email address or an associated phone number for 2FA means you can find yourself with a real headache if your kid gets locked out of their account for whatever reason.
I'm interested in how you got the account back. My kid lost access to the email address on the account. It wasn't stolen, it was a school email address at an old school. Replies from Roblox support have been very slow and not helpful - just instructions on how to recover using the email on the account (as if they never read the original support request).
The important thing about Roblox is that it's part of a larger trend of platform that enable a competitive creator environment that bubble up the "best" content to the top (like TikTok, YouTube, and Reddit). Roblox does it for games, and perhaps in the best way we've seen so far.
This perspective can also give us a sneak peek into will replace Roblox in the future. If you look at the YouTube --> TikTok transition, the main differences are that TikTok's content is entirely recommended, and that the content itself is more shorter (i.e. faster to trigger the dopamine response). The new gaming platform will likely be similar - a faster, quicker experience that will initially cater to kids but will eventually capture adults as well (and the content will evolve to support that).
Side note: It's absolutely incredible how much the comment section here is filled with parents either complaining or seeking validation for their ways of raising their kids. It shows how the transition to digital consumption is polarizing and challenging to our conventional wisdom.
First off, I consider myself pretty liberal in my views and open to online gaming in general. However, as a parent and grandparent, I think Roblox is HIGHLY dangerous for kids. I've watched my granddaughter play some games that were completely ripe with players looking to exploit her. Music playing with Rated-XXX lyrics - referring to varied sexual acts. Games based on pets (wolves) wanting to "ride" each other and playing what seemed like a pornographic soundtrack in the background. I'm talking about true porn, moaning, foul language, you name it.
She is no longer allowed to play the game at our home. I would have to spend all my time policing her online play and dealing with her disappointment at not being able to play specific games.
I don't see how parents can allow their kids to play Roblox. It is wide open to exploitation - there is no restriction, control or protection offered for children. And to top it off, 99% of gameplay requires purchasing virtual items.
Just bleh, shock and a big nope for my family. Roblox should be ashamed at the platform they have created.
One of the benefits of Roblox is it's extremely unopinionated in aesthetics and gameplay mechanics, which is quite different from Minecraft. Combined with zero upfront cost developing/publishing/operating and large platform user base, it opens up lots of possibilities for developers.
[+] [-] skrebbel|5 years ago|reply
Eg my youngest likes the clicking simulators. Many of those are awful "pay to win" schemes but some actually have fun game dynamics (not unlike the Paperclip Simulator html game that's an HN favorite[0]). Those are the ones he returns to.
These are the games that are more creative in nature, the games that are more challenging and so on and so forth. I feel that at least 7 out of 10 times I check on them, they're doing a game that involves creation, economics, collaboration, and often multiple of those.
[0] https://www.decisionproblem.com/paperclips/index2.html
[+] [-] kitd|5 years ago|reply
I had that to start with, but now he's older and using the platform to interact with his friends (especially during lockdown), we have relented and now use Robux as incentives for doing chores etc.
[+] [-] chett|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] spaceisballer|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dvfjsdhgfv|5 years ago|reply
Could you recommend a few titles that are worth checking out?
[+] [-] brightball|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jimmyvalmer|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unfocused|5 years ago|reply
Then again, the 9 year old also has a steam account, and they buy all their games from their $5/week allowance. It's their choice. We do not control what they spend money on.
They made a couple of bad purchased, and cried, and regretted it, but it taught them to be careful. So I guess, you can say, there are ways to letting kids play Roblox and controlling their spending.
And to be fair, it really depends on the kid. Some resist buying impulsively better than others. Also, as an aside, they try to add kids that they know in real life.
They get their video time from 6:15pm until 7:15pm on weekdays. They pick their video time. Whether watching Planet Earth, Youtube, Steam, Roblox, it doesn't matter. BUT, they get 1 hour. Essentially we are trying to give them power of choice, and ability to fail. It's not perfect, but...I guess we're just learning as we go along.
[+] [-] SteveCoast|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] alisonkisk|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jonheller|5 years ago|reply
Then I realized that this is literally the only game they play, and it's free. Compare that to me at that age, buying Nintendo games for $50 a pop, why am I hesitant to support these creators with a $2 hat?
I still limit purchases just for general personal finance lessons, but otherwise let them spend money here like they would on actual paid games.
[+] [-] dylan604|5 years ago|reply
These games are designed on emotional responses in kid's brains just as much as FB's algo for its feed is.
[+] [-] TeMPOraL|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sv123|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] NDizzle|5 years ago|reply
I'm not sure if there is any grand meaning to this, I just thought I'd share a thing I noticed.
[+] [-] juskrey|5 years ago|reply
On the other hand I have no problems paying children for games with honorable practices of one time purchase or reasonable subscriptions (which usually end in a month in any case when children get bored)
[+] [-] ceejayoz|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mempko|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] quornxypt|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] TedDoesntTalk|5 years ago|reply
Second Life, The Sims Online. We’ve been here before. Those platforms didn’t nail it like Roblox, but Roblox did not transform anything.
[+] [-] throwaway744678|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] karpour|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] villasv|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] emmelaich|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] TrainedMonkey|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jrm4|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] inthewoods|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mbesto|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] guidoism|5 years ago|reply
And it's full of scams. Kids spend $10 for a hat or something in the game and it doesn't end up working in all the games and there's no recourse. It's a true free-for-all wild-west.
What we can learn from it is: 1. Making games easy to make and distribute. It's honestly amazing what kids are doing these days. I give Roblox a lot of credit for this. 2. Roblox has become an awesome way for kids to communicate with each other, they share their username at the playground.
[+] [-] aduitsis|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ryanmarsh|5 years ago|reply
Somebody who understands product, gaming, and devrel could really knock this out of the park. Please do it, so I can go back to making games with my kids.
[+] [-] felideon|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] meheleventyone|5 years ago|reply
If you're interested you can learn more about the company and project here: https://controlzee.com/
[+] [-] modeless|5 years ago|reply
Apple gets to pick winners and losers by selective enforcement of their own rules. Pretty nice for Roblox if Apple prevents anyone from releasing a competitor!
[+] [-] an_opabinia|5 years ago|reply
A third person character running around with virtual joysticks: so clunky.
Roblox has been around longer than smartphones have, it has always been a port, much like Minecraft. Which sure, kids play.
Roblox is probably setting back the arrival of the metaverse, not advancing it. Whatever that means.
If you actually make and play games you don't talk about things that way. You're more aware of stuff like Dreams or Garry's Mod, you've touched stuff like Unity and Unreal and Flash. You kind of get that Roblox isn't competing with Grand Theft Auto but with YouTube Poop. Literal puppet shows. Like what are we even talking about.
As an aside, the biggest threat to Roblox is if parents spent money. I don't mean in Roblox. Surely, you guys understand, that the appeal of Roblox compared to Disney+, arguably the finest destination for 8 year olds, is that, on the face of it, Roblox is "free." It's a catch 22 really: the audience where they would anticipate all their revenue growth would never waste money on Robux, they would just get a Disney+ subscription.
[+] [-] vidarh|5 years ago|reply
Meanwhile my sons pocket money gets split between V-bucks for Fortnite and Robux, because that is what he wants to spend money on. He could've funded that Disney+ subscription several times over with what he spends on Robux.
I think the things he buys are idiotic, but here's the thing: Over several years, he's never once expressed regret at these purchases. He continues to get enjoyment from it.
A lot of the hate for Roblox I see here feels like parents trying to impose their own preferences on their kids, instead of considering just how idiotic their parents would have found the things they spent money on as kids.
[+] [-] matthoiland|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mwcampbell|5 years ago|reply
Do we really want another generation addicted to consuming big-budget media? Especially now that most of that media is encumbered by DRM that makes free computing platforms much less attractive?
Mind you, I'm not sure that Roblox is the answer. But it might be better, since it at least puts more focus on creating rather than consuming.
[+] [-] shortlived|5 years ago|reply
You should also check out Phantom Forces on Roblox. Really impressive game play IMO and not clunky at all.
[+] [-] whywhywhywhy|5 years ago|reply
This doesn't bother kids, it's all they know. I cringe watching my niece and nephew playing Minecraft and Roblox on their phones with touchscreen controls but they don't care and can use it fine even if it looks clunky and painful to me.
[+] [-] pueblito|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] HDMI_Cable|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] webwielder2|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] damontal|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] geomark|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bastardoperator|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tomerico|5 years ago|reply
This perspective can also give us a sneak peek into will replace Roblox in the future. If you look at the YouTube --> TikTok transition, the main differences are that TikTok's content is entirely recommended, and that the content itself is more shorter (i.e. faster to trigger the dopamine response). The new gaming platform will likely be similar - a faster, quicker experience that will initially cater to kids but will eventually capture adults as well (and the content will evolve to support that).
Side note: It's absolutely incredible how much the comment section here is filled with parents either complaining or seeking validation for their ways of raising their kids. It shows how the transition to digital consumption is polarizing and challenging to our conventional wisdom.
[+] [-] kongcode|5 years ago|reply
She is no longer allowed to play the game at our home. I would have to spend all my time policing her online play and dealing with her disappointment at not being able to play specific games.
I don't see how parents can allow their kids to play Roblox. It is wide open to exploitation - there is no restriction, control or protection offered for children. And to top it off, 99% of gameplay requires purchasing virtual items.
Just bleh, shock and a big nope for my family. Roblox should be ashamed at the platform they have created.
[+] [-] acehw|5 years ago|reply
Why can't I?
it supposedly works on ChromeOS
[+] [-] concretemarble|5 years ago|reply
Roblox Hellreaver https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tMpXnRG19U&ab_channel=Popta...
and
Waterloo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WS4KBNTocQY&ab_channel=Pixel...
One of the benefits of Roblox is it's extremely unopinionated in aesthetics and gameplay mechanics, which is quite different from Minecraft. Combined with zero upfront cost developing/publishing/operating and large platform user base, it opens up lots of possibilities for developers.