I admire resume liars. The job market isn't fair and you should do anything you can to get ahead. (Employers are going to pull tricks like this, so why not? Just be smart about it)
Tech recruiter here. Firms on average are more dishonest than jobseekers. The reason is simple: If you do something often enough, you get sloppy.
For instance, if you start going to the gym, at first, your exercise execution is perfect but after some weeks you get sloppier and sloppier.
Same here, firms that are hiring constantly tend to get fatigued. Jobseekers, however, are "active" for some weeks until they switch jobs; this is why you, as a jobseeker, need extra training during your jobhunt, to be on-par with them.
I don't recommend lying but I do recommend tailoring your resume such that it reflects actually what you did in an adequate level of detail. Most job seekers are too honest on the CV and during interviews.
> Firms on average are more dishonest than jobseekers.
This. It happened to me to receive CVs for a position and the actual candidate was completely clueless. Yet the recruiting firm was really pushing that as "a very good candidate albeit a bit junior".
OTOH, it happened to me that I had an interview with a consulting firm. They would basically forward my CV to the actual client and only hire me if the client "accepted" to "hire me" through them. The thing is, this firm asked me for my cc in ms word format, so that they could add their own logos and stuff, make it appear like I was on their payroll and more importantly remove all the contacts (as if it was any meaningful in the age of LinkedIn). I have no way to tell if they inflated my CV in any way.
Most job seekers are too honest on the CV and during interviews.
Interviews are structured as if candidates are doing fancy algorithms every day, whereas you’re probably actually writing glue code 99% of the time and crammed CtCI just before the interview. The whole thing is fake, but companies started it.
While I respect the virtue of selling yourself, I think the logic of "everyone is doing it" has been used by many people to do many bad things. I for one hold myself to a far higher standard than this, and I think I'd be far less happy in general if I let my dignity slip like this.
Besides, it's a losing proposition: if you lie to get a job at a place that won't hire people with honest resumes, you end up working with a bunch of lying mercenaries for a company with unreasonable expectations. Even if you had no morals, it's against your interests.
While lying on your resume is often defended as: “Everyone does it, employers expects it”, I don’t think it’s nearly as common as people think. It may be market/country specific, but simply assuming that it’s something you do is idiotic.
A relative works in a country where lying on CV and during interviews by hugely inflating one’s skills is the norm. It only fools European expatriate managers with no knowledge of the country. Local HR and experienced expatriates know about it and adjust their accordingly. When everyone is lying, it doesn’t make a difference anymore.
Please keep in mind that resume padding is often not done by the candidate but by headhunters who want to depict their square peg candidate as the most perfect round peg ever imagined.
While I see your point, resume liars is also the reason why we have such draconian interviewing processes at the moment.
You can go to pretty much any tech company in the world, and somewhere, someone is going to have some horror story about hiring a seemingly competent (even perfect) candidate on paper, that turned out to be woefully incompetent. The types that are supposed to have a Masters degree + 5 years of industry experience, but can't code themselves out of a wet paper bag.
I guess you wouldn’t be upset if a business lied to you about compensation, since you have no problem with a prospective employee lying about what they bring to the table.
> Employers are going to pull tricks like this, so why not?
Not every employer pulls tricks. Also, the employer is not the only one that gets affected by sending fabricated resumes; this makes the job search process more difficult for e.g. other applicants too.
I think there's merit to this... within reason. Stretching a couple years of Java experience into a decade? Meh. Claiming you know Perl, because you're super familiar with other scripting languages and can learn quickly? Meh, probably.
But since MOVA is, definitionally, fake, it's not like you have any idea * what * you're claiming to know. There's a level of BS here that isn't calculated, and I think that makes for a truly dishonest employee (aka bad hire).
> Meh. Claiming you know Perl, because you're super familiar with other scripting languages and can learn quickly?
I've seen that backfires with people I interview. I have a limited time with each person. If you're saying you have experience but obviously don't, it means everything on your resume has to be considered as "possibly false". It brings a much more critical eye to that type of candidate, with lots of discussion and questioning that probably wouldn't have happened otherwise.
As long as you remember which lies you told. I remember one interview where I asked "So, how much X do you know" and the guy I was interviewing honestly answered "Sorry, I've never used X". At which point I had to point out that he'd claimed to know X on his resume.
iwangulenko|5 years ago
For instance, if you start going to the gym, at first, your exercise execution is perfect but after some weeks you get sloppier and sloppier.
Same here, firms that are hiring constantly tend to get fatigued. Jobseekers, however, are "active" for some weeks until they switch jobs; this is why you, as a jobseeker, need extra training during your jobhunt, to be on-par with them.
I don't recommend lying but I do recommend tailoring your resume such that it reflects actually what you did in an adequate level of detail. Most job seekers are too honest on the CV and during interviews.
znpy|5 years ago
This. It happened to me to receive CVs for a position and the actual candidate was completely clueless. Yet the recruiting firm was really pushing that as "a very good candidate albeit a bit junior".
OTOH, it happened to me that I had an interview with a consulting firm. They would basically forward my CV to the actual client and only hire me if the client "accepted" to "hire me" through them. The thing is, this firm asked me for my cc in ms word format, so that they could add their own logos and stuff, make it appear like I was on their payroll and more importantly remove all the contacts (as if it was any meaningful in the age of LinkedIn). I have no way to tell if they inflated my CV in any way.
goatinaboat|5 years ago
Interviews are structured as if candidates are doing fancy algorithms every day, whereas you’re probably actually writing glue code 99% of the time and crammed CtCI just before the interview. The whole thing is fake, but companies started it.
nightowl_games|5 years ago
JasonFruit|5 years ago
mrweasel|5 years ago
xmprt|5 years ago
skrebbel|5 years ago
tasogare|5 years ago
rualca|5 years ago
unknown|5 years ago
[deleted]
TrackerFF|5 years ago
You can go to pretty much any tech company in the world, and somewhere, someone is going to have some horror story about hiring a seemingly competent (even perfect) candidate on paper, that turned out to be woefully incompetent. The types that are supposed to have a Masters degree + 5 years of industry experience, but can't code themselves out of a wet paper bag.
chordalkeyboard|5 years ago
goatinaboat|5 years ago
Exaggerating the possibility of a bonus or of the value of stock options is completely normal for employers.
Gigablah|5 years ago
thih9|5 years ago
Not every employer pulls tricks. Also, the employer is not the only one that gets affected by sending fabricated resumes; this makes the job search process more difficult for e.g. other applicants too.
bpodgursky|5 years ago
But since MOVA is, definitionally, fake, it's not like you have any idea * what * you're claiming to know. There's a level of BS here that isn't calculated, and I think that makes for a truly dishonest employee (aka bad hire).
nomel|5 years ago
I've seen that backfires with people I interview. I have a limited time with each person. If you're saying you have experience but obviously don't, it means everything on your resume has to be considered as "possibly false". It brings a much more critical eye to that type of candidate, with lots of discussion and questioning that probably wouldn't have happened otherwise.
dagw|5 years ago