[jblow]

> They're not a runtime construct, they have zero influence over what code does at run time (e.g. mrustc compiler doesn't implement lifetimes, but bootstraps the whole Rust compiler just fine).

This kind of reasoning seems like it makes sense, but actually it is false. ("Modern C++" people make the same arguments when arguing that you should use "zero-cost abstractions" all over the place). Abstractions determine how people write code, and the way they write the code determines the performance of the code.

When you conceptualize a bunch of stuff as different objects with different lifetimes, you are going to write code treating stuff as different objects with different lifetimes. That is slow.

> If you create `Vec<Object>` in Rust, then all objects will be allocated and laid out together as one contiguous chunk of memory

Sure, and that covers a small percentage of the use cases I am talking about, but not most of them.

[Rusky]

> When you conceptualize a bunch of stuff as different objects with different lifetimes, you are going to write code treating stuff as different objects with different lifetimes. That is slow.

This is not how lifetimes work at all. In fact this sounds like the sort of thing someone who has never read or written anything using lifetimes would say: even the most basic applications of lifetimes go beyond this.

Fundamentally, any particular lifetime variable (the 'a syntax) erases the distinctions between individual objects. Rust doesn't even have syntax for the lifetime of any individual object. Research in this area tends to use the term "region" rather than "lifetime" for this reason.

Lifetimes actually fit in quite nicely with the sorts of things programs do to optimize memory locality and allocations.

> Sure, and that covers a small percentage of the use cases I am talking about, but not most of them.

Fortunately the other stuff you are talking about works just fine in Rust as well.

[jblow]

I am talking about RAII. RAII leads to programs that are inherently slow.

[pornel]

You haven't really explained in any detail what is slow about "treating stuff as objects with different lifetimes", and specifically how Rust differs there from C. Can you give an example?

Maybe you'd be interested to hear that Rust's borrow checker is very friendly to the ECS pattern, and works with ECS much better than with the classic OOP "Player extends Entity" approach.