This is not new, and has been known for many years.
Interestingly enough, this policy is awkward - borderline useless - for two reasons. First, any satellite imagery, at any resolution, can be purchased on the private market, for the right price. Maybe not from the US, but it's not like the US is the only country that collects satellite imagery.
But there is a more interesting aspect to this story. Israel does allow publishing high-resolution imagery of its territories, given that they have been censored. Thus, you get ridiculous images such as a huge park in the middle of Tel Aviv, where clearly the Kirya [1] usually stands.
The fun starts once you diff a censored map with a publicly available one, even if it's low-res. Even an untrained eye can easily spot places that someone does not want you to look at. (I have been toying with the idea of mining satellite imagery and running image diffs between censored and uncensored versions of the same area.)
Ridiculous, considering that most secret places blend in perfectly with their surroundings.
Had they not been censored, no one would notice these facilities.
Living in TLV for a week now. This annoys me, for various practical reasons: I became (maybe a bad thing?) dependent on decent, free and _readable_ maps. Maps are easy to get by, but I am used to get a decent preview of places I'm interested in. I'd love to explore the country virtually and check out places of interest, possible targets for a day off or a weekend trip.
Pretty certainly someone, somewhere thought that this would be necessary and a good idea, but I fail to grasp the reasons. It seems as if the 'privacy' gained by censoring/prohibiting this kind of imagery is borderline security by obscurity. It's not like anyone really interested in these maps couldn't get them from other places - or travel the country and look for places of interest. It just annoys the laymen - like me.
It's CYA policy for blame-shifting, a variant of security theater. When the next attack happens, the map purveyor needs to be able to say "he didn't do it with my maps". The map maker is not really interested in preventing attacks; just preventing blame. His self-interest is to make sure he can't be perceived to bear any fault for any attack that may happen.
And this effect works recursively for any entity that has power over the map maker. The Israeli government similarly wants to shift any blame away. So they can ban publishing a map of anything they consider vulnerable, not to realistically prevent any attack, but just to make sure they look like they tried and nobody can play the card of "why didn't they do something?" against them.
For a tech example, consider a system of stringent password requirements, with specifications for length and no dictionary words and special characters and so on. We know that this leads to the Post-it approach by users. But the password designer is only looking to avoid blame for any hypothetical attack - if the password is stolen off the written note, he can blame the stupid user and point to his own "secure" requirements.
It's probably overdone and largely useless but not quite as ridiculous as it seems. Sure, high res maps are probably theoretically available from some source and country with an army and an intelligence apparatus will have access to these. Recently, Israel attracts fire from groups ranging from a couple guys and a $200 mortar tube to sub national militias with limited support from a handful of real countries. I imagine these groups, much like startups, appreciate the cheap & easy 80/20 solutions that something like google earth offers.
I remember years ago hearing stories about rocket squads using Israeli radio reports of rockets striking (for example) 1km west of Kibbutz Dan to adjust their aim.
I lived in TLV last summer. It annoyed me dramatically as well. It was impossible to check out the neighborhood on google maps before I moved in (as well as other points of interest that I planned on going to)
Second, what you describe as check out places of interest, possible targets for a day off or a weekend trip is not falling into the category of secret army bases etc. which are in discussion. (unless of curse, if in your case, "the places pf interests" are actually army bases ;-) But, I assume you are a hacker at most, but not a spy.
Keep in mind the fact that Israel is a very small country, and yet major parts of whatever is left to us, is claimed by others. From Tel Aviv, which is located on the west side, by the sea, and the east border there are only 16KM (10 miles) of land in between (same range as from 14th Street to Baker Field, New York)
Therefore, we try to keep the little we have as much as possible and this is the reason, I think, for the censorship one might call it.
All in all, I wish you great and joyful stay in our city, and if you need a partner for a beer or two, drop me a mail.
How is this not a violation of the first amendment? They aren't US government buildings (which still exist on the map, just some things are occasionally blurred). Why as an American company can't I take pictures of anything I want from the sky and post them online?
Furthermore, its just silly in an international market. Thinking that this will make images of Israel go away to protect them is just silly. Useless legislation is useless and a waste of taxpayer time and money.
We don't do this for any other country/ally. As a non-religious American, I quite honestly don't understand why we have such a relationship with Israel as it yields us zero benefit and many losses.
The US treats Israel like an intelligence/military base in the Middle East. Why wouldn't you support your soldiers?
A bonus is that Israel is still a sovereign nation and if it for example bombs Syrian nuclear reactors, the United States has zero responsibility. Which can leave the US to pursue détente with any country it likes, regardless the Israel protest.
A nations power is measured not only in its military capabilities but in its allies. The US has many, many allies but not that many loyal ones especially in the Middle East.
The benefits are way too many, but very few of them are international-PR-related. Except of course domestically, which is much, much more important to any politician.
"As a non-religious American, I quite honestly don't understand why..."
As a non-religious American, I quite honestly don't understand why so many non-religious Americans try to paint this partnership in grandiose, apocalyptic religious way (heh, ironically just like many religious people). Just as the arab-israeli conflict is not inherently a religious conflict, the US partnership with israel is not a "religious" bond - it's a political partnership like all others.
Because the First Amendment protects a class of political speech that has been defined by statute and judicial opinion. It does not give everyone the right to broadcast and discover whatever information they want. This is a common misconception about the First Amendment.
Assisting in protecting the Jewish people from annihilation is not a religiously based relationship, it might be based on guilt at worse. Helping the defenseless Jews in WW2 was much more costly than helping israel now.
Well, this article isn't accurate at all, you can see Israel on Google Maps in a great resolution, but you don't have API. Must be outdated or something.
That's at the same zoom level and the Boston image is clear. Sure, you can make things out in the Tel Aviv map, but it's very blurry. The Boston map has a crispness to it. Plus, the Boston map can be zoomed in another level. The Tel Aviv map tells you "we are sorry, but we don't have imagery at this zoom level for this region."
Right, the title/tone is misleading. I think (at least that's what I commented on) that the discussion is about details/zoom levels that you're used to from other places. Try to zoom in and decide if a beach is worth visiting. It seems that the last couple of zoom levels are missing.
What I'd like to understand (but cannot check - I'm clueless, just curious) is if the image quality degrades more the 'hotter' the area is.
Who cares about google maps? I use waze, a free gps that has all Israeli roads and hotelier listed, plus, if there is a new road, users can create it into the map. I also have an iPhone app that tells me about different shops and entertainment and gas stations etc that are around.
I use google maps (map view, not satellite) multiple times a week. I use the walking directions, and find the
directions and the estimated time to be highly accurate.
It would be a nice perk for satellite imagery, but that doesn't really hurt my usage of google maps in israel. It would be really nice too for google street view, but I'm not crying.
Why don't we let israel manage it's satellite imagery how it wants. For a country constantly at war over since the writing of its declaration of independence, it seems only prudent to hinder the spread of even mediocre quality intelligence gathering tools.
For a good comparison look at the map quality of South Korea near the border and North Korea over the border. The maps of North Korea are higher resolution and completely uncensored. Occasionally, when I am wandering along in South Korea with my GPS on I find something censored on Google maps. Why are the images of the Palestinian territories not available in in higher resolutions? It doesn't seem like a problem to allow clearer images of other non-US friendly nations.
I have no idea why some people complain.
Suppose Google Maps had "erase" feature. The same people who would "erase" Israel from the map, would complain, that they need higher resolution images ;)
[+] [-] yuvadam|15 years ago|reply
Interestingly enough, this policy is awkward - borderline useless - for two reasons. First, any satellite imagery, at any resolution, can be purchased on the private market, for the right price. Maybe not from the US, but it's not like the US is the only country that collects satellite imagery.
But there is a more interesting aspect to this story. Israel does allow publishing high-resolution imagery of its territories, given that they have been censored. Thus, you get ridiculous images such as a huge park in the middle of Tel Aviv, where clearly the Kirya [1] usually stands.
The fun starts once you diff a censored map with a publicly available one, even if it's low-res. Even an untrained eye can easily spot places that someone does not want you to look at. (I have been toying with the idea of mining satellite imagery and running image diffs between censored and uncensored versions of the same area.)
Ridiculous, considering that most secret places blend in perfectly with their surroundings.
Had they not been censored, no one would notice these facilities.
[1] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HaKirya
[+] [-] joebadmo|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] darklajid|15 years ago|reply
Pretty certainly someone, somewhere thought that this would be necessary and a good idea, but I fail to grasp the reasons. It seems as if the 'privacy' gained by censoring/prohibiting this kind of imagery is borderline security by obscurity. It's not like anyone really interested in these maps couldn't get them from other places - or travel the country and look for places of interest. It just annoys the laymen - like me.
What am I missing?
[+] [-] T-hawk|15 years ago|reply
And this effect works recursively for any entity that has power over the map maker. The Israeli government similarly wants to shift any blame away. So they can ban publishing a map of anything they consider vulnerable, not to realistically prevent any attack, but just to make sure they look like they tried and nobody can play the card of "why didn't they do something?" against them.
For a tech example, consider a system of stringent password requirements, with specifications for length and no dictionary words and special characters and so on. We know that this leads to the Post-it approach by users. But the password designer is only looking to avoid blame for any hypothetical attack - if the password is stolen off the written note, he can blame the stupid user and point to his own "secure" requirements.
[+] [-] netcan|15 years ago|reply
I remember years ago hearing stories about rocket squads using Israeli radio reports of rockets striking (for example) 1km west of Kibbutz Dan to adjust their aim.
[+] [-] rmc|15 years ago|reply
Some charity sponsored some aerial imagery of Gaza and mapped that well[2].
[1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=32.29&lon=34.03&zo... [2]http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=31.51&lon=34.4543&...
[+] [-] vbtemp|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] antihero|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tzury|15 years ago|reply
First, welcome to Tel Aviv.
Second, what you describe as check out places of interest, possible targets for a day off or a weekend trip is not falling into the category of secret army bases etc. which are in discussion. (unless of curse, if in your case, "the places pf interests" are actually army bases ;-) But, I assume you are a hacker at most, but not a spy.
Keep in mind the fact that Israel is a very small country, and yet major parts of whatever is left to us, is claimed by others. From Tel Aviv, which is located on the west side, by the sea, and the east border there are only 16KM (10 miles) of land in between (same range as from 14th Street to Baker Field, New York)
Therefore, we try to keep the little we have as much as possible and this is the reason, I think, for the censorship one might call it.
All in all, I wish you great and joyful stay in our city, and if you need a partner for a beer or two, drop me a mail.
[+] [-] tibbon|15 years ago|reply
Furthermore, its just silly in an international market. Thinking that this will make images of Israel go away to protect them is just silly. Useless legislation is useless and a waste of taxpayer time and money.
We don't do this for any other country/ally. As a non-religious American, I quite honestly don't understand why we have such a relationship with Israel as it yields us zero benefit and many losses.
[+] [-] dimitar|15 years ago|reply
A bonus is that Israel is still a sovereign nation and if it for example bombs Syrian nuclear reactors, the United States has zero responsibility. Which can leave the US to pursue détente with any country it likes, regardless the Israel protest.
A nations power is measured not only in its military capabilities but in its allies. The US has many, many allies but not that many loyal ones especially in the Middle East.
The benefits are way too many, but very few of them are international-PR-related. Except of course domestically, which is much, much more important to any politician.
[+] [-] vbtemp|15 years ago|reply
As a non-religious American, I quite honestly don't understand why so many non-religious Americans try to paint this partnership in grandiose, apocalyptic religious way (heh, ironically just like many religious people). Just as the arab-israeli conflict is not inherently a religious conflict, the US partnership with israel is not a "religious" bond - it's a political partnership like all others.
[+] [-] jeffreymcmanus|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] creativeone|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tkahn6|15 years ago|reply
Google is a private company.
> I quite honestly don't understand why we have such a relationship with Israel as it yields us zero benefit and many losses.
If you don't understand something, a good bet is that your premises are wrong.
[+] [-] VB6_Foreverr|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gryzzly|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mdasen|15 years ago|reply
That's at the same zoom level and the Boston image is clear. Sure, you can make things out in the Tel Aviv map, but it's very blurry. The Boston map has a crispness to it. Plus, the Boston map can be zoomed in another level. The Tel Aviv map tells you "we are sorry, but we don't have imagery at this zoom level for this region."
[+] [-] darklajid|15 years ago|reply
What I'd like to understand (but cannot check - I'm clueless, just curious) is if the image quality degrades more the 'hotter' the area is.
[+] [-] orofino|15 years ago|reply
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&...
[+] [-] creativeone|15 years ago|reply
I use google maps (map view, not satellite) multiple times a week. I use the walking directions, and find the directions and the estimated time to be highly accurate.
It would be a nice perk for satellite imagery, but that doesn't really hurt my usage of google maps in israel. It would be really nice too for google street view, but I'm not crying.
Why don't we let israel manage it's satellite imagery how it wants. For a country constantly at war over since the writing of its declaration of independence, it seems only prudent to hinder the spread of even mediocre quality intelligence gathering tools.
[+] [-] antihero|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Tsagadai|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|15 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] unknown|15 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] themoah|15 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] unknown|15 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] eurohacker|15 years ago|reply
its trillions
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/1209/p16s01-wmgn.html
[+] [-] dmerfield|15 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nivertech|15 years ago|reply