[mikecomstock]

A good take-away from this might be "don't do two-level ACL until you have user traction".

DavicMcLaughlin says, "we were getting absolutely ridiculous user engagement..." When you are starting a site, you want as little resistance to usage as possible, and this helps with that. It makes it one step easier for people to use your site. It helps reduce the typical chicken/egg problem, or any other "it's hard to get users" problem.

Once you have the users, and security becomes more of a concern ("But security should always be a concern", yeah I know.) then you should start to think about something more secure. Until then, do all you can, within reason, to get users.

[AretNCarlsen]

> Once you have the users ... then you should start to think about something more secure. Until then, do all you can, within reason, to get users.

Worked well for Sony!

Seriously, that is an egregious abuse of both ethics and morality, the latter because you are implicitly abusing your users' trust (unless your welcome screen says "NOT YET SECURE" in huge font). If implementing reasonable security before you enter beta testing is such a resource burden that your product will go under before it can get its footing, then your product goes under. Ethics do not go away when your profitability and success are on the line -- that is the specific moment when ethics come into play.

I realize you have already thought through this and have a different POV. Newbies are liable to see this kind of talk however, and think it is an accepted industry-wide practice to treat security as an afterthought until you have scaled, when that is in fact a profitable but unacceptable antipattern.

P.S.- This is like a new small-town restaurant saying "Refrigerators are expensive, so we can't afford to refrigerate our eggs and milk until we get more customers. Otherwise we might go under from the increased operating cost, and then our customers wouldn't get to enjoy our restaurant!" Draw your own conclusion.

[andrewflnr]

I think you're overblowing his point a little, and attacking a straw man. I don't think he's talking about not-using-refrigerators/storing-passwords-in-plain-text type of insecurity, just worrying less about loopholes that are non-critical and unlikely to be exploited anyway until you have lots of users. He did say "within reason".