I personally think that the effort to create open source phones is the single most important technology project going on out there. We have open source browsers, we have open source social apps, but we definitely do not have open source phones. Phones that can be truly owned and controlled by users will reshape the privacy discourse, from one of complaining and legal coercion, to one of choices and markets.
(edit: caveat: they might not be able to actually ship the firmware since laws on this are very strict basically everywhere)
The app store(s) is a bit of a problem, but in time it might be solved. Not a big problem for me....
But I'd also like to see android compatibility. Multiple banks now basically require you to have an android app. Unfortunately that might also require better specs, since sideloading an entire android might take significant RAM :(
Still, kudos to pine64 devs for the openness of all of their projects! IMHO even the raspy is not as open, even if it might have better benchs
Except that it won't break the app-store duopoly. At what point will WhatsApp or even Signal consider providing a web-app, or even an open API for others to built clients against? Not doing this is a policy choice, not a technical one.
Will banks offer something that doesn't require authentication via an app? Governments? App here meaning: Android or IOS.
One solution might be to provide a sandbox for Android apps, but you would still be locked into Google's app-store and require accepting their terms of use. And while your OS might be open and not user-hostile, all the apps everyone uses will still be the same.
I want a phone like this, but I don't see it changing the duopoly.
This is not a stab at you or your comment. I think your message is valid and I agree with it. However, I do believe there's a commonmisconception in here that needs to be highlighted if hoped to be fixed.
> We have open source browsers, we have open source social
> apps, but we definitely do not have open source phones.
> Phones that can be truly owned and controlled by users
> will reshape the privacy discourse, from one of
> complaining and >legal coercion, to one of choices and
> markets.
What you are talking about in the text above is not delivered by Open Source, which is just a practical advantage. The values you mentioned are fought for by the Free/Libre Software community [0].
I recommend to anyone interested in this topic (e.g. the differences between Libre and Open Source software), read more about the GNU project as a starter [1].
As a disclaimer, I'm by no means an expert on this topic which is another reason to follow the links below.
I'm not 100% sure I'd rank this as #1 on my list, but if not, it'd probably be at least #2 or #3. Open source phones (and tablets) are something I've been dreaming about and looking forward to for a very long time, and I'm happy this is finally starting to come to fruition.
I must really like down votes because "single most important technology project going on out there" is quite the stretch. Hell, I would argue that over the last year during a pandemic doordash was more important(feeding people while letting them be socially distanced). People on this site like overestimate the avg. persons concern with privacy. the hardware toggles are cool tho.
Hm, I'd say the mRNA COVID vaccines are probably a more important technology project at the moment. Realistically, most people don't actually care about the ideological purity of their phone, and the ones who do certainly don't have the time to personally audit the source of every dependency they install. So it's not exactly solving any practical problems, even more so since any internet connected device is at the mercy of our shared BGP systems and to a lesser extent DNS. Like it or not, you're part of a community and you can't solve every social problem with technology (or markets, for that matter)!
Just (pre)-ordered mine. And I have to say, this has me feeling that I'm on the cusp of fulfilling a dream that I've had for around a decade (or more?) now.
Every since the days of the OpenMoko[1] I've wanted a real "open source mobile device" - something that runs Linux (or a BSD, or FreeDOS, or ReactOS or something open), that can make/receive calls, get on the net, and that I can carry in my pocket. Not being ludicrously expensive is also a desirable feature. And now between this PinePhone, and the Purism phone, it looks like what I've been wanting finally exists. I can't overstate how happy this makes me.
Edit: and yes, I know that an "Android Phone" running F-Droid is close to the same thing, and I am glad F-droid is out there. But this still feels like a step further in the right direction.
Does it allow to call phones and send SMS? This seems like a silly question, but I know that some version of Librem didn't and nobody mentioned it in their reviews.
I bought the postmarketOS edition phone last year. The software is improving although there is an annoying bug specifically with postmarketos where the app repo doesnt list anything you dont already have downloaded, You have to search for software by name.
The build quality is on par with some early android phones before glass screens became standard. performance is kind of what you would expect. Not great but it works. I definitely wouldn't consider this daily driver ready yet. I still think its worth supporting. With RISCV gaining steam perhaps the next version will use a mobile optimised RISCV SOC instead of the weird janky embedded ARM unit they have now.
I'm disappointed that they don't support LTE Band 48.
Band 48 (CBRS) provides a relatively easy way to run your own LTE network for testing or whatever.
Commercial eNBs are sub $1k, and you can spin up an open source EPC in an evening, config your own SIM cards, etc.
I've had the pinephone from the start and while I've seen great progress in general in getting this closer to being a daily driver, I feel a lot of effort has been made getting various orthogonal distributions/stacks ported to this platform which I feel is fracturing the ecosystem.
I'm by no means a mobile app developer but if I wanted to dabble in making a small app, I'd be confused which stack to use and which distributions it would be compatible with.
This is especially true of Pine's other interesting product, the PineWatch. There isn't a very clear path which of the many distributions that are available, is the right one to follow - Pine themselves don't seem to have any interest in setting up a canonical release asset that customers can follow, and I agree with you - this is fracturing the ecosystem.
This project is awesome. I wont be buying this particular model, but I envision myself picking up a PinePhone once it's a couple generations out of beta.
Depends on the stack you are using. I maintain an App List [0] that lists existing apps, which might help with getting an idea of the dominant frameworks. That said, popular technologies like Flutter are also coming to Linux Phones.
I just run X11 on mine so all the normal open source apps from my desktop work. Most of the mobile DEs don't seem to meed anything special other than your app handling a small screen well.
I'd much prefer a list of phones where people have been able to crack the bootloader open completely and then I can just install Linux on top of it.
Not a big fan of extremely old hardware which would never be able to keep up with what I can get out of a Raspberry Pi.
In fact, how feasible is it to create a hat for the Raspberry Pi compute module which operates effectively as a mobile phone. Like you would an obviously need a screen as well as some buttons, I've seen several game boy looking cases but nothing shaped like a phone
Offhand, does anyone have a list of closed source drivers this device? It’s not a dealbreaker to me (I use many raspberry pis in my home), but it’s nice to have an inventory.
The phone marketplace rewards performance, and there are only two ways to compete: either tightly integrate the OS and processing hardware (like Apple does) or throw processing hardware specs at an unintegrated OS (like Samsung, Google, et.al. does with Android).
At this point, given the existing application ecosystem, the best (only) option for a new phone maker is to tightly integrate inexpensive processing hardware with Android, and enter the market with a surprisingly performant phone at a low price point.
Interestingly, it seems they're charging more for the "convergence package" at 199.99 than its components separately (PinePhone 149.99 + Docking bar 24.99). Is this a simple oversight or is there something different about a "convergence" PinePhone versus a regular one, other than the presence of the dock?
This is great, and I plan on getting one to support the project. I do however wish there was a smaller screen one (perhaps EInk) with more 4G bands like band 71, and with Anbox/microG support to run apps like Signal.
I would like to know what apps people are using for video chat, if they aren't using Signal.
[+] [-] wwarner|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Luker88|5 years ago|reply
https://twitter.com/biktorgj/status/1357217053745250304
(edit: caveat: they might not be able to actually ship the firmware since laws on this are very strict basically everywhere)
The app store(s) is a bit of a problem, but in time it might be solved. Not a big problem for me....
But I'd also like to see android compatibility. Multiple banks now basically require you to have an android app. Unfortunately that might also require better specs, since sideloading an entire android might take significant RAM :(
Still, kudos to pine64 devs for the openness of all of their projects! IMHO even the raspy is not as open, even if it might have better benchs
[+] [-] Freak_NL|5 years ago|reply
Will banks offer something that doesn't require authentication via an app? Governments? App here meaning: Android or IOS.
One solution might be to provide a sandbox for Android apps, but you would still be locked into Google's app-store and require accepting their terms of use. And while your OS might be open and not user-hostile, all the apps everyone uses will still be the same.
I want a phone like this, but I don't see it changing the duopoly.
[+] [-] senux|5 years ago|reply
> We have open source browsers, we have open source social > apps, but we definitely do not have open source phones. > Phones that can be truly owned and controlled by users > will reshape the privacy discourse, from one of > complaining and >legal coercion, to one of choices and > markets.
What you are talking about in the text above is not delivered by Open Source, which is just a practical advantage. The values you mentioned are fought for by the Free/Libre Software community [0].
I recommend to anyone interested in this topic (e.g. the differences between Libre and Open Source software), read more about the GNU project as a starter [1].
As a disclaimer, I'm by no means an expert on this topic which is another reason to follow the links below.
[0] https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point....
[1] https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/philosophy.html
[+] [-] mindcrime|5 years ago|reply
I'm not 100% sure I'd rank this as #1 on my list, but if not, it'd probably be at least #2 or #3. Open source phones (and tablets) are something I've been dreaming about and looking forward to for a very long time, and I'm happy this is finally starting to come to fruition.
[+] [-] whitepaint|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dheera|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] viro|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] NationalPark|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 74d-fe6-2c6|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pjmlp|5 years ago|reply
EU Law states two years regardless of manufacturer wishes.
https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/gua...
=> The two-year period starts from the day you received the product:
And given it is shipped from Poland, it falls under it.
[+] [-] mindcrime|5 years ago|reply
Every since the days of the OpenMoko[1] I've wanted a real "open source mobile device" - something that runs Linux (or a BSD, or FreeDOS, or ReactOS or something open), that can make/receive calls, get on the net, and that I can carry in my pocket. Not being ludicrously expensive is also a desirable feature. And now between this PinePhone, and the Purism phone, it looks like what I've been wanting finally exists. I can't overstate how happy this makes me.
Edit: and yes, I know that an "Android Phone" running F-Droid is close to the same thing, and I am glad F-droid is out there. But this still feels like a step further in the right direction.
[1]: http://www.openmoko.org/wiki/Main_Page
[+] [-] int_19h|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gambler|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bullen|5 years ago|reply
Trying to cancel the order, even if supporting the initiative would be nice, my 3D MMO needs OpenGL ES 3!
[+] [-] varispeed|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fsflover|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thereddaikon|5 years ago|reply
The build quality is on par with some early android phones before glass screens became standard. performance is kind of what you would expect. Not great but it works. I definitely wouldn't consider this daily driver ready yet. I still think its worth supporting. With RISCV gaining steam perhaps the next version will use a mobile optimised RISCV SOC instead of the weird janky embedded ARM unit they have now.
[+] [-] jauer|5 years ago|reply
Commercial eNBs are sub $1k, and you can spin up an open source EPC in an evening, config your own SIM cards, etc.
[+] [-] swiley|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hyperpl|5 years ago|reply
I'm by no means a mobile app developer but if I wanted to dabble in making a small app, I'd be confused which stack to use and which distributions it would be compatible with.
[+] [-] msgilligan|5 years ago|reply
"Today we are very pleased to announce that the PinePhone will ship with Plasma Mobile on a Manjaro ARM base from this point on."
https://www.pine64.org/2021/02/15/february-update-show-and-t...
[+] [-] oilbagz|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] CivBase|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] XorNot|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] linmob|5 years ago|reply
[0] https://LINMOBapps.frama.io
[+] [-] swiley|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fsflover|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ognarb|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] seba_dos1|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] varispeed|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] offtop5|5 years ago|reply
Not a big fan of extremely old hardware which would never be able to keep up with what I can get out of a Raspberry Pi.
In fact, how feasible is it to create a hat for the Raspberry Pi compute module which operates effectively as a mobile phone. Like you would an obviously need a screen as well as some buttons, I've seen several game boy looking cases but nothing shaped like a phone
[+] [-] sergeykish|5 years ago|reply
> postmarketOS now boots on over 200 phones and tablets (as of 6 May 2020)
That, I believe, is about mainline kernel. And only boot.
[1] https://tuxphones.com/postmarketos-boots-200-linux-phones-ta...
[+] [-] nfriedly|5 years ago|reply
There's also an Arduino one: https://learn.adafruit.com/arduin-o-phone-arduino-powered-di...
[+] [-] captainmuon|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] CraneWorm|5 years ago|reply
I never understood it why it has to be so hard to find a reasonably speced smartphone that fits comfortably in your pocket
[+] [-] willis936|5 years ago|reply
Offhand, does anyone have a list of closed source drivers this device? It’s not a dealbreaker to me (I use many raspberry pis in my home), but it’s nice to have an inventory.
[+] [-] clarge1120|5 years ago|reply
At this point, given the existing application ecosystem, the best (only) option for a new phone maker is to tightly integrate inexpensive processing hardware with Android, and enter the market with a surprisingly performant phone at a low price point.
[+] [-] mciancia|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] I-Robot|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] apetresc|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] charlesap|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] linmob|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] swiley|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ece|5 years ago|reply
I would like to know what apps people are using for video chat, if they aren't using Signal.