[jonathannat]

With regards to Xinjiang sanctions, China has also

- sanctioned US/Canadian/UK/EU individuals and entities

- erased H&M in all major Chinese platforms https://wwd.com/business-news/retail/hm-face-new-boycott-chi...

While that's happening, China has also

- signed a 25-year cooperation agreement with Iran

- censored 'stock market' term from social media searches after stocks posted longest losing streak https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/china-banned...

- attacked US in the high-level Alaska talks, saying "black Americans are being slaughtered" while adding 'We will always stand up for our principles for our people' https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56452471

- parked hundreds of ships near a reef in order to possibly build more artificial islands https://www.npr.org/2021/03/26/981668318/chinese-ship-deploy...

My take: a dictatorship running scared on a declining economy, with enemies surrouding it and around the world, needs to bark loud and ramp up its military. it will either fade away into isolation, or it will do something stupid like attack Taiwan, whose missile capabilities can hit Beijing and three gorges and basically collapse China, and get sanctioned by countries worldwide, and fade away into oblivion

[oreally]

Sounds like the typical westernized narrow view of China.

Whenever there's a rising power that threatens the current number #1, you'll see such events happening. It has happened time and again and the only difference now is that there is far less blood being spilled.

On the flip side, the rest of the world remembers what dirty things the US did during it's hold on global power. WMDs in iraq, double ethical standards in conflicts around the world. In this case many chinese think this whole debacle is a based off lies fabricated by dubious western sources (which has some basis behind it) and they're reacting accordingly.

As was shown when China helped the US during the UN security meeting to not declare the iraq war illegal, big powers will abuse whatever they have and can get in their own interests. The problem is whether you western folks will be played by your institutions into doing things that destroy your own credibility in the eyes of the rest of the world.

[hayst4ck]

> In this case many Chinese think this whole debacle is a based off lies fabricated by dubious western sources

This is very true, our media lies to us, and it lies to you, but isn't there something to be said about not having the freedom to think what you want in your own country, nor being able to read what information you want?

No matter who commits a condemn-able act it should be condemned, most of all if it's your own group. The most scary thing to me about China or a Chinese hegemony is not the shift of power, but that Chinese citizens are unable to be informed nor are they able to condemn their own government. There is no public veto for CPC behavior. China has assumed the role of the victim (century of humiliation), but acts as the abuser (destruction of Tibetan/Uigher/Hong Kong culture and a desire to destroy Taiwan), and then justifies the abuse it doles out by the abuses it has received.

The second most scary thing to me about Chinese hegemony is that dialogue is primarily based around power. Who has the power to do what, not what is morally right, not the rules that should apply to all countries and people, but most of all itself. So what is China's moral basis and ethics system founded upon? Might makes right. That is terrifying to me.

> The problem is whether you western folks will be played by your institutions into doing things that destroy your own credibility in the eyes of the rest of the world.

Does China's own credibility not matter?

[zenexer]

Nothing that the US or any other country has done justifies China’s actions. This isn’t a contest to see who’s worse. Your entire argument here is tangential to the fact that China’s actions have been ridiculously abusive.

Has my own country done some despicable things? Yes. Is it still doing despicable things? Yes. That doesn’t mean I have no right to point out abuse elsewhere. Abuse is abuse; to the victim, it makes very little difference whether it’s one government or another. If abusive actions come to my attention, the absolute least I can do is condemn them.

[jcranmer]

It's funny that you mention the WMDs in Iraq. This is an episode of US foreign policy that many people and countries (rightfully) criticized. Yet when it happened, the US didn't start boycotting everyone who criticized it; the worst that happened was US Congress deciding to change the name of "French Fries" to "Freedom Fries" in its cafeteria [1].

In contrast, China right now seems to be responding right now to anyone who dares to criticize it with immediate sanctions and reprisals. I'm not immediately aware of any time in the history of hegemon replacement cycles where either the old or the new hegemon acted in such a manner.

[1] Amusingly, the dish isn't even French, it's Belgian.

[alasdair_]

The US does all kinds of terrible things but, importantly, we are all mostly[1] free to call these things out and make it clear that bullshit is happening.

The CCP is different. Their censorship is overt and draconian. Even the most wealthy and powerful citizens of China risk being taken in for questioning for speaking the truth about power.

[1] Manning, Snowden, Assange et al notwithstanding.

[tirrex]

I’m from a country which US did its dirty things in it but don’t even compare China to US. China is another league, a big threat to the rest of the world and China has a lot less credibility than US.

[mlindner]

It's funny you speak for the rest of the world when it's quite clear in what they publicly say that they support the US rather than attack it.

[jonathannat]

This seems like a very US-centric response. As I wrote

> China sanctioned US/Canadian/UK/EU individuals and entities

> erased H&M (swedish company) in all major Chinese platforms

[Leary]

Declining economy? It's going to decline itself to 1st place by 2030.

[seanmcdirmid]

Ya, its just like what everyone said about Japan’s growth trajectory in the 1980s. Similar predictions even.

[not_exactly__]

Not so fast. China managing 1st place isn’t a foregone conclusion. Ill blame those pesky demographic trends first.

[jonathannat]

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/yes-china-lying-about...

Yes China Is Lying About the Size of Their Economy

https://fortune.com/2021/03/11/stimulus-package-covid-relief...

The $1.9 trillion stimulus package could see the U.S. economy outpace China’s for the first time in 45 years

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4414648-chinas-shifting-dem...

China's Shifting Demographics Suggest Slower Economic growth

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/03/05/china-economic-growth-p...

China Signals Economic Caution at People’s Congress

[rsj_hn]

Did you know that the GDP of Africa is two trillion dollars (PPP)? So Africa has surpassed Canada, right?

What matters is GDP/capita, not total output in a nation of 1.4 Billion people. You can easily get "first place" by redrawing boundaries around a bunch of poor and middle income nations. That redraw doesn't make anyone better off.

[8note]

What's wrong with signing an agreement with Iran? They've got cheap oil, that could be sent by pipelines rather than the US controlled Pacific ocean

[anaccountwow]

This tweet by Xinhua (state media) gave the same impression. It's bizarre: https://twitter.com/xhnews/status/1375271937442603012

[mlindner]

Good grief. I really wonder if they think African Americans are dumb.

[justinzollars]

The United States is sailing the 7th fleet off of the Chinese coast and has China surrounded by military bases, some very close to the Chinese mainland.

The Shanghai Communiqué - Joint Communique of the United States of America and the People's Republic of China, settled the Taiwan question in the 1970's:

http://www.taiwandocuments.org/communique01.htm

> The U.S. side declared: The United States acknowledges that all Chinese on either side of the Taiwan Strait maintain there is but one China and that Taiwan is a part of China. It reaffirms its interest in a peaceful settlement of the Taiwan question by the Chinese themselves

If you put yourself in China's shoes, and consider China's history. How would you feel if a Chinese fleet was sailing off of the coast of California and stoking internal tensions?

[hayst4ck]

> If you put yourself in China's shoes, and consider China's history. How would you feel if a Chinese fleet was sailing off of the coast of California and stoking internal tensions?

The question is phrased awkwardly and with a forgone conclusion. The world "internal" is key. Does a Taiwanese see that as an internal issue? Did a Hong Kong person see that as an internal issue?

In an oppressor/opressee relationship I would probably feel much closer to the party being oppressed, and I would respect the "policing force" for protecting the more vulnerable party.

So in your own scenario, say Trump won through an obviously fraudulent election, and Hawaii no longer wanted to be a part of America (rightfully so!), and the Chinese military was protecting Hawaii from being ruled without public consent, I would very much be happy about this Chinese fleet. If America was actively trying to extinguish a "pacific islander cancer" or a "native american cancer" via slow genocide and culturally destructive tacitcs, I would say that is an incredibly morally just cause for this theoretical Chinese fleet. How would you feel about the theoretical chinese fleet if you were hawaiian?

Is America perfect (mexican border situation), no. But at least we can talk about our imperfections openly. We can have a discussion about this "evil" of "seperatism" if we wish.

How would you feel if you were Taiwanese? How would you feel if you were a native Hong Konger? How would you feel if you were a Uigher? Do Chinese citizens not have any empathy?

Have you ever been to Taiwan?

[dang]

This breaks the site guidelines badly. Unfortunately you've done that more than once before. We ban accounts that do this, so please read the rules and stick to them when posting here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

[marakv2]

Attacking the commenter instead of the information posted isn't really how it's done around here.

[endisneigh]

Your take is interesting:

1. Hasn’t China’s economy been growing steadily for decades?

2. Hasn’t China formed new trading partnerships with many countries in Europe?

3. China is not a dictatorship.

[Wolfenstein98k]

1) Yes, but that's slowing by all external measures

2) Yes, but as with the agreements with my state (Victoria), those are fleeting and mostly gesture - the tide is turning against China since these wheels were set in motion several years ago

3) President for life? How isn't it a dictatorship? How is the leader replaced if the populace does not like him - and how do they make that known, when you can't even use an open communication platform like Clubhouse in China?

[DaiPlusPlus]

> Hasn’t China’s economy been growing steadily for decades?

Not steadily - but geometrically (if not near-exponentially). Rapid expansion is not sustainable. I compare China's growth from the 1970s through to the early-2000s to the US's postwar boom years: eventually things settle-down. I suspect the people at the top (whether in the CCP, private business interests, whereever) are uncomfortably having to acclimatize to this slower world of theirs they now find themselves in.

> Hasn’t China formed new trading partnerships with many countries in Europe?

News to me. Link?

> China is not a dictatorship

You're technically correct - but consider that China is simply too big to be run as a dictatorship, and the CCP do not act in the interests of their citizens' human rights and individual freedoms.

I don't understand what China's leadership is afraid of such that they have their internet filter and suppress independent journalism. And I don't believe you can have economic freedom without also having individual freedom.

[paulryanrogers]

> 3. China is not a dictatorship

Technically no, but without term limits and little accountability isn't the paramount leader a dictator in practice?

[jonathannat]

> Hasn’t China’s economy been growing steadily for decades?

Fake GDP #s, especially since 2010. CCP does NOT have a growth goal in the recent five year plan, meaning they can't fake increasing defaults and can't increase construction spendings anymore due to ballooning debt.

> Hasn’t China formed new trading partnerships with many countries in Europe?

First time in 30 years EU has sanctioned China. The CAI deal (Europe-China trade deal) is now being put on hold since various members of EU being sanctioned. Potentially a dead trade deal going forward.

> China is not a dictatorship.

It is. Please read up on Xi Jing Ping's personality, his success on removing most of his enemies and secure his power, and changing the law for unlimited terms