Q:I know that other drivers and development software for Kinect are available on the Web. Can I use the Kinect sensor device with these other drivers or software instead of the SDK Beta?
A: No. Use of the Kinect sensor device is subject to its own warranty and software license agreement that allow you to use it solely in connection with an Xbox 360 or Xbox 360 S console. Only Microsoft can grant you the additional rights that you need to use the Kinect sensor device with a personal computer. Microsoft grants these additional rights in the SDK Beta license, but only for uses of the Kinect sensor device in connection with the SDK Beta. If you use the Kinect sensor with a platform other than Xbox 360, Xbox 360 S, or Windows (with the SDK Beta), you void the warranty you received when you purchased the Kinect sensor device.
From the demos shown on Channel 9, it seems the SDK comes with skeletal tracking. This would be big!!
Edit: I just looked at the Skeletal viewer sample. Looks like they do have skeleton tracking in the SDK. Woot!
Edit 2: They also have sound localization from the Kinect's microphones!!
I'm not sure about others, but I I did not expect either features to be in the initial SDK. This might explain why it took them so long (they said it would be released in Spring). They seem to have gone all-out!
Kinect for Windows is, IMHO, Microsoft's only chance of really getting back in the game. It is an Apple level sea change if they can capitalize on it.
I mean lets be real here. Touch is a great way to interact with computing devices but it screws up the screen. Until someone invents a smudge proof surface that will always be the case. Beyond that usability studies show touch screens on PCs just don't work. People's shoulders start to hurt very quickly.
Kinect solves that. It's touch without touching. It can be done without having to reach over the keyboard. It IS the future if Microsoft can capitalize on it.
Touch for mobile, however, avoids the screen-mess problem, as cleaning the screen is as simple as putting it in your pocket/holster (assuming you have a oleophobic screen or screen-protector) or wiping across your sleeve/pants.
Remember that apple R&D, that found that mousing was quicker than keyboarding (because its low cognitive load doesn't interrupt your train of thought - it just seems quicker because you have amnesia when immersed in working out the right keys... [not applicable to expert fingers])?
Perhaps touching the screen instead of acquiring the mouse would be quicker and even lower cognitive load. This wouldn't be for every interaction, but as an adjunct to the keyboard - as the mouse is.
Not sure if true though - my mouse is at the same elevation as the keyboard, whereas the screen requires raising a hand about a foot. The cognitive load is lower though - people often instinctively touch the screen (if they haven't been screen-trained), especially when looking at someone else's screen. Perhaps that's a key? Collaborative use: a mouse is per person, but several can look and touch a screen.
How does it solve that? Walk me through that, my imagination must be lacking.
You seem to be imagining a trackpad that doesn’t have to be touched, that can consequently track a much larger area and that can track 3D space. That’s pretty sweet, I guess, if it works reliably and is as precise as current trackpads but it doesn’t seem all that amazing.
I think that moving a finger to do an action is going to trump needing to move your whole arm or do jumping jacks for the same action. Especially since it would be fairly embarrassing for probably a whole generation of people before it became common place. But it might justify some of the more active users getting offices.
What you're suggesting I imagine is points at an item but doesn't touch it. Maybe they coordinate themselves with a virtual reflection on the screen or something so they needn't physically touch it?
The background technology is indeed complex, but that doesn't really matter much. The biggest stopper is the fact that you are still putting and abstraction between yourself and the object you're manipulating.
Touching something and directly manipulating (touch screens) is a very close coupling with little abstraction. But having to point, but coordinate your "reflection", or point but don't touch is a stretch.
1) For virtually every MS SDK I can think of, everyone has to download it. I can't think of any where this isn't the case, although I wouldn't be surprised if there was a couple. That's standard MS practice.
2) I think those things always voided the warranty. In general, I think hacks, whether on Android, iPhone, Wii, Roombas, Dysons, or whatever will void the warranty.
Am I the only one that noticed a big BETA sign on the site?
I remember the iPhone SDK beta license even prohibited developers from discussing the SDK or exchanging ideas with others, thereby leaving no room for forums, newsgroups, open source projects, tutorials, magazine articles, users' groups, or books(same with iOS beta now,btw) and is restricted to people signing up for it.
Word on the street says that drivers for Kinect are going to ship with Windows 8.
I don't think that the new Metro UI shipping in Windows 8 is just about touch, I also suspect that the new interface is going to be gesture sensitive as well.
I don't understand why Microsoft couldn't have just endorsed OpenNI, fixed the drivers, created some Visual Studio/.net integration and been done with it. Would have spent half as much time in development, cost them less and given them the same exact product. And anyone, even without a Windows Machine or Visual Studio could have worked on this.
I'd love to try this, but the all-Microsoft stack required to use this SDK is a huge barrier to entry. I use a Mac, I don't know C#, Silverlight, Visual studio etc. In order to use this SDK I need to buy into MS tech on many levels. A browser plugin with a JavaScript API (even if IE only), would be very compelling and a lot more accessible.
You sound like a web dev, which is fair enough, but isn't Microsoft busy (for varying values of busy) trying to promote native technologies and discourage the browser as a platform view for obvious business reasons?
I remember my friend coded a program that Alt+Tab each time he moves his face to the right, and Alt+Shift+Tab when he moved his face to the left. It was awesome. :)
For Microsoft to release a commercial license they have to be able to support it. That means relatively no bugs, staffing tech support, etc... I don't think Microsoft is ready to do that with Kinect.
In fact, I think this SDK is a response to the homebrew solutions that were coming out. I think Microsoft saw the focus shifting off them and onto the open source community and they didn't want to lose the good PR. Meaning this SDK was probably rushed out the door (and I'd suspect has some serious bugs in it)
This is a nice SDK. It's biggest improvement over the Open Source ones is the inclusion of the skeletal tracking. This high level interface opens a lot of great opportunities in human behavior tracking.
I'm just going to miss libfreenect and using my Mac to do this development.
I still think the Kinect technology is most interesting for the living room or public places (where you don't want ppl interacting with a physical object, if at all possible). Not sure I think my office is where it has as much use.
Can't watch the launch demo because I don't have silverlight! Not what I hoped for as the SDK, but as others have said I think its their most innovative product and what may in the end crack open an area for them to innovate in.
[+] [-] cjoh|14 years ago|reply
Q:I know that other drivers and development software for Kinect are available on the Web. Can I use the Kinect sensor device with these other drivers or software instead of the SDK Beta?
A: No. Use of the Kinect sensor device is subject to its own warranty and software license agreement that allow you to use it solely in connection with an Xbox 360 or Xbox 360 S console. Only Microsoft can grant you the additional rights that you need to use the Kinect sensor device with a personal computer. Microsoft grants these additional rights in the SDK Beta license, but only for uses of the Kinect sensor device in connection with the SDK Beta. If you use the Kinect sensor with a platform other than Xbox 360, Xbox 360 S, or Windows (with the SDK Beta), you void the warranty you received when you purchased the Kinect sensor device.
[+] [-] sliverstorm|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tgrisfal|14 years ago|reply
I can has open source now?
[+] [-] iqster|14 years ago|reply
Edit: I just looked at the Skeletal viewer sample. Looks like they do have skeleton tracking in the SDK. Woot!
Edit 2: They also have sound localization from the Kinect's microphones!!
I'm not sure about others, but I I did not expect either features to be in the initial SDK. This might explain why it took them so long (they said it would be released in Spring). They seem to have gone all-out!
[+] [-] DrJ|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] TomOfTTB|14 years ago|reply
I mean lets be real here. Touch is a great way to interact with computing devices but it screws up the screen. Until someone invents a smudge proof surface that will always be the case. Beyond that usability studies show touch screens on PCs just don't work. People's shoulders start to hurt very quickly.
Kinect solves that. It's touch without touching. It can be done without having to reach over the keyboard. It IS the future if Microsoft can capitalize on it.
[+] [-] r00fus|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 6ren|14 years ago|reply
Perhaps touching the screen instead of acquiring the mouse would be quicker and even lower cognitive load. This wouldn't be for every interaction, but as an adjunct to the keyboard - as the mouse is.
Not sure if true though - my mouse is at the same elevation as the keyboard, whereas the screen requires raising a hand about a foot. The cognitive load is lower though - people often instinctively touch the screen (if they haven't been screen-trained), especially when looking at someone else's screen. Perhaps that's a key? Collaborative use: a mouse is per person, but several can look and touch a screen.
[+] [-] ugh|14 years ago|reply
You seem to be imagining a trackpad that doesn’t have to be touched, that can consequently track a much larger area and that can track 3D space. That’s pretty sweet, I guess, if it works reliably and is as precise as current trackpads but it doesn’t seem all that amazing.
[+] [-] spot|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] radley|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mhansen|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] napierzaza|14 years ago|reply
What you're suggesting I imagine is points at an item but doesn't touch it. Maybe they coordinate themselves with a virtual reflection on the screen or something so they needn't physically touch it?
The background technology is indeed complex, but that doesn't really matter much. The biggest stopper is the fact that you are still putting and abstraction between yourself and the object you're manipulating.
Touching something and directly manipulating (touch screens) is a very close coupling with little abstraction. But having to point, but coordinate your "reflection", or point but don't touch is a stretch.
[+] [-] qdot76367|14 years ago|reply
- You can't copy the runtimes with your application. Everyone has to download the SDK
- All non SDK software (OpenKinect, OpenNI + OK, etc...) is now warrenty voiding
- Assume all software you see may be violating the SDK license
"Built to be open". Yup.
[+] [-] kenjackson|14 years ago|reply
1) For virtually every MS SDK I can think of, everyone has to download it. I can't think of any where this isn't the case, although I wouldn't be surprised if there was a couple. That's standard MS practice.
2) I think those things always voided the warranty. In general, I think hacks, whether on Android, iPhone, Wii, Roombas, Dysons, or whatever will void the warranty.
[+] [-] recoiledsnake|14 years ago|reply
I remember the iPhone SDK beta license even prohibited developers from discussing the SDK or exchanging ideas with others, thereby leaving no room for forums, newsgroups, open source projects, tutorials, magazine articles, users' groups, or books(same with iOS beta now,btw) and is restricted to people signing up for it.
[+] [-] iamelgringo|14 years ago|reply
I don't think that the new Metro UI shipping in Windows 8 is just about touch, I also suspect that the new interface is going to be gesture sensitive as well.
Windows 8 is looking very shiny.
[+] [-] reustle|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] peregrine|14 years ago|reply
I definitely answered my own question.
[+] [-] melvinram|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] artmageddon|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|14 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] dstein|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bretthopper|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] iamelgringo|14 years ago|reply
You can run it in a VM.
[+] [-] patrickk|14 years ago|reply
A small example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_C_Sharp_and_Java#...
[+] [-] trotsky|14 years ago|reply
You sound like a web dev, which is fair enough, but isn't Microsoft busy (for varying values of busy) trying to promote native technologies and discourage the browser as a platform view for obvious business reasons?
[+] [-] seanalltogether|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] recoiledsnake|14 years ago|reply
http://c4c.posterous.com/installing-openni-kinect-drivers-an...
[+] [-] Shenglong|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] AndrewDucker|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] TomOfTTB|14 years ago|reply
For Microsoft to release a commercial license they have to be able to support it. That means relatively no bugs, staffing tech support, etc... I don't think Microsoft is ready to do that with Kinect.
In fact, I think this SDK is a response to the homebrew solutions that were coming out. I think Microsoft saw the focus shifting off them and onto the open source community and they didn't want to lose the good PR. Meaning this SDK was probably rushed out the door (and I'd suspect has some serious bugs in it)
[+] [-] andypants|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] praeclarum|14 years ago|reply
I'm just going to miss libfreenect and using my Mac to do this development.
[+] [-] nbkolchin|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nutjob123|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] recoiledsnake|14 years ago|reply
http://www.riagenic.com/archives/487
http://www.riagenic.com/archives/493
[+] [-] kenjackson|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Newky|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kenjackson|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] LiteOn|14 years ago|reply
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