[Sileni]

At least with pip and env, you'd have a hard time doing general tasks in python without getting to know them anyway.

You can also shortcut a lot of that with a hosting service like Heroku, which takes on a lot of the mental overhead for you.

You've made me curious to ask, what programming environments don't have a significant learning curve when you get to the hosting portion, short of a "no-code" hosting solution?

[chipotle_coyote]

PHP. Deploying small-to-medium PHP projects to production has historically been "move these files to your web root, initialize/seed your database if you have one, and that's it." It's really easy to underestimate how valuable that is in certain contexts, and how much that's contributed to PHP virtually owning the low end of the market.

My assumption was always that other languages would find a way to get closer to that model -- never quite to that level for various technical considerations, but close. I'm not sure any really have, save, as you noted, through dedicated hosting services. Fortunately, though, modern PHP frameworks have come to the rescue by becoming far more difficult and fiddly, to the point where both Symfony and Laravel's online tutorials begin with installing Docker.

[hallman76]

> You've made me curious to ask, what programming environments don't have a significant learning curve when you get to the hosting portion, short of a "no-code" hosting solution?

With java you can deploy a "fat jar" - a single executable that contains everything it needs, including the web server. You start the jar, it binds to a port, and you're done.