I'm very curious about the impact of PrEP. On one hand, condomless sex has absolutely exploded in the gay community since PrEP, and honestly, why not? As the saying goes, "Who wants to chew gum with the wrapper on?" But PrEP also requires frequent and regular STD testing, so these cases of syphilis should be caught and treated early before they have much of a chance to spread.
Are they testing for all STDs or only for HIV? Also, the person taking PrEP is (potentially) only half of the equation. How often do people who test positive inform their recent partners?
Well, the silver lining, I guess, is that this appears to be the result of basically getting a handle on the AIDS situation to the point where it wasn’t a threat.
>With the risk of contracting a deadly disease falling to almost zero, condoms fell even more out of favor than they already were, says Park.
>"If one man is taking PrEP and the other one is virally suppressed, there's no HIV risk at all," she says. "So why use condoms if you don't mind having a touch of syphilis?"
Humans really do take for granted the efficacy of antibacterials and antibiotics across the board.
These sort of harmful bacteria are completely and safely treatable now in most people, but the real potential threat is breeding drug resistant strains of bacteria, microorganisms and viruses. We shouldn't treat these fantastic tools like a pass to do whatever, we should instead use them sparingly and curb behavior. There are plenty of simple preventative practices than can reduce ever needing such treatments while mostly being able to continue doing what you'd like. A huge amount of these infections could be reduced drastically just by using a condom.
Rely on those prevention approaches first and drugs/treatment second to reduce the risk of creating situations where treatments don't exist. This can be said about a huge swath of preventable disease in the US. A bit of diet, exercise, and an once of prevention is worth its weight in gold.
And one other thing: Cheap, anonymous tests for everyone. It should be the norm that when you hook up with a new person / one night stand that you show them your recent negative test result. At least where I live (Germany) you can already get them sent to your home for 50€ (https://samhealth.de/) and you can get free tests at your local health office (Gesundheitsamt) if you are not too shy to argue a bit. AFAICT it should be a net positive for society to completely subsidize home tests for everyone, but that is probably an uphill battle against conservative prejudices even in Germany.
> A bit of diet, exercise, and an once of prevention is worth its weight in gold.
All those cases of just eating less sugar / exercising more / sitting less are unfortunately really hard for most individuals. We really should strive to create environments where doing the good thing is as easy as possible. Like offering free daily work breaks for sport or having healthy lunch meals for children in school.
If you're talking about Syphilis diet and exercise could make the problem worse. Your opportunities for random hookups are more frequent when you are fit.
I suppose we've had the trifecta of bad HN comments: diet and exercise as a magic ward against all sickness, victim-blaming the AIDS crisis, and suggestions of recording everyone's sexual activity on the blockchain. I've flagged the story for this.
It’s worth noting that the article describes how syphilis is common in high risk groups engaging in high risk activities in a high risk part of the country, rather than the general population at large. However it seems inevitable that it will spill out into the wider population too.
It looks that at least one aspect could have a technical solution. I'm talking about this part: ""And if the sex didn't go well, then sometimes they will block the person from their app and they don't even know how to reach that person again."
It looks like the apps could have an emergency notification mechanism to help with that. Phone companies must implement 911, hookup companies should be required to implement an infection notification mechanism.
That could be great, because it could also enable "someone you've been with reported sick, get tested" which would remove a lot of awkward interactions / barriers for reporting. Then again... do we really want dating apps with more or less full network and history of STIs of its users?
Not sure how this would actually work. You usually have hundreds of matches and few substantial conversations per every sexual encounter. I feel like the signal to noise ratio would make it impractical to get tested every time anyone I ever matched with reported an STI. Would you need to report having had sexual contact with someone to improve accuracy? I know I wouldn’t be providing that data to Tinder.
I think this is a great idea, making it much easier to do semi-anonymous STD notification. Sadly, after googling "grindr std notification" I found a bunch of articles around mid-2018 about Grindr "investigating" such a feature, but it certainly never implemented it, and no other info on it in the past 3 years.
I wonder if we can develop vaccination against syphilis.
With all the progress made because of Covid, it might just be possible. Syphilis has been a big vaccination challenge.
Edit: Why I am getting downvoted for this of all things? Do people hate syphilis victims so much? Not everyone who catches syphilis is a raging cheater.
Do people seriously believe antibiotics are magic shots that make you whole again? Syphilis is associated with serious sequela, some that only show up years later.
When humans build a great tool to eradicate a disease, people think it's a free pass to do anything. Sometimes I think we deserve whatever pandemic is thrown at us.
Flamewar comments will get you banned here. The idea of HN is curious conversation on topics of intellectual interest. Do you think that a religious ideological sex war falls in that scope? It does not. No more of this, please—and see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26810504 also.
> Syphilis and Chlamydia are showing early signs of antibiotic resistance.
Gonorrhea unfortunately even shows advanced signs of antibiotic resistance. There is already "super-gonorrhea" which has resistance to our last line of defense, ceftriaxone.
> one has to wonder if an ultra liberal attitude towards sex
I've moved from an area with a liberal attitude towards sex, to an area with a more Christian attitude towards sex, which extends to political decision-making around sexual health.
The main difference for me is... it is now extremely difficult to access appropriate testing for STDs, it is more difficult to access appropriate treatment in a timely or private manner, and it is more difficult to access preventative measures (this extends also to condoms).
If testing is frequent and widespread enough, eradication or near-eradication will result.
PrEP is a good thing because people who are on PrEP can be required to test frequently as a condition to obtain new medication (not sure if that happens in the US, but it does elsewhere).
not sure about your comparsion; another interesting detail is that some fourty years ago we got the aids epidemic, and that one caused a swing towards conservative values; interesting if this one will have a similar effect.
Society made the choice that stupidity should not come with a death penalty if we can prevent it. We will send several extremely highly trained people in a rescue helicopter to save a pedophile alcoholic in a car crash on that principle.
This may lead to more people doing very dangerous things, but this is a choice society has made, and frankly I think most of us have done things at one point or another we got away with only because we were lucky.
Some people take risks driving too fast, some people take risks having sex with more people. Why should we help the first group but not the last?
meth seems to be the catalyst for the bad behavior done either recreationally (orgies) or while in bad situations arising from a cluster of root causes. I'm only going to address the latter:
the article mentions homeless women who trade sex for shelter. My sister is literally trying to be homeless right now. She has serious mental issues and can't live with anyone for long before she ruins their life and gets kicked out. this is a 20-year-long pattern. She even has access to therapy and shelter, but doesn't accept it. she has adhd and is probably somewhat spectral. she has a very narrow idea of how she wants to live her life: get an easy part-time job, live alone, and pay low rent. But this is not easy when she also freaks out on people, accusing them of abuse, physically assaulting them, etc. So she sometimes starts relationships with people to get access to shelter for short periods. Who knows what she's compromising on behind those closed doors. Could be unprotected sex and offers of drugs. I know for sure pot, alcohol, and cigarettes, but how much farther does it go? I know she's experiment with cocaine and psychedelics. Our family is devastated by all of this, has no idea what to do next, having taking advice from many caring friends, health professionals, etc.
So it's not just one root cause, there are numerous issues of economics, shelter, mental illness, biology, personal responsibility, modernity, inequality, alcoholic parents, realistic expectations and so on that all build on each other creating a "strange attractor," or quite a simply, a "drain."
When our species/culture was all outdoors anyway, I think crazy people like her used to fit in on the fringes. Raising a child had lots of beneficial influence from different types of people instead of just one alcoholic parent like in our case, or lots of phony impressions from self-filtered social media and brain-wave-engineered advertisements. Inequality in native tribes wasn't as extreme and we didn't have "rich kids" in class to compare ourselves to. Once daily living required keeping track of lots of things, like money, and sustaining professional relationships, the fringes of living got narrow and harsh. Then, when having an acceptable online life got added: passwords, service payments, visible resume, working phone, with charge locations, even more people fell through the cracks. They're the ones you seen in tents, in the woods, on the streets. And there is no easy solution... Fix half of the factors I listed above and the rest of the pattern will persist. This doesn't even address how many of these people end up in jail. If there's anything we can do, it's to find small ways to make "traditional life" a little easier for people who can't handle all of this.
It seems that chemsex goes hand in hand with STDs. Russian AIDS epidemic seems to be connected to mephedrone just like this thing is connected to meth.
[+] [-] hn_throwaway_99|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] londons_explore|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] elliekelly|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] emodendroket|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Frost1x|5 years ago|reply
>"If one man is taking PrEP and the other one is virally suppressed, there's no HIV risk at all," she says. "So why use condoms if you don't mind having a touch of syphilis?"
Humans really do take for granted the efficacy of antibacterials and antibiotics across the board.
These sort of harmful bacteria are completely and safely treatable now in most people, but the real potential threat is breeding drug resistant strains of bacteria, microorganisms and viruses. We shouldn't treat these fantastic tools like a pass to do whatever, we should instead use them sparingly and curb behavior. There are plenty of simple preventative practices than can reduce ever needing such treatments while mostly being able to continue doing what you'd like. A huge amount of these infections could be reduced drastically just by using a condom.
Rely on those prevention approaches first and drugs/treatment second to reduce the risk of creating situations where treatments don't exist. This can be said about a huge swath of preventable disease in the US. A bit of diet, exercise, and an once of prevention is worth its weight in gold.
[+] [-] Perseids|5 years ago|reply
> A bit of diet, exercise, and an once of prevention is worth its weight in gold.
All those cases of just eating less sugar / exercising more / sitting less are unfortunately really hard for most individuals. We really should strive to create environments where doing the good thing is as easy as possible. Like offering free daily work breaks for sport or having healthy lunch meals for children in school.
[+] [-] heywherelogingo|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jandrese|5 years ago|reply
If you're talking about Syphilis diet and exercise could make the problem worse. Your opportunities for random hookups are more frequent when you are fit.
[+] [-] pjc50|5 years ago|reply
Against syphillis?
I suppose we've had the trifecta of bad HN comments: diet and exercise as a magic ward against all sickness, victim-blaming the AIDS crisis, and suggestions of recording everyone's sexual activity on the blockchain. I've flagged the story for this.
[+] [-] spurgu|5 years ago|reply
I couldn't get past the cookie consent screen. Might require JS. Don't care. Went straight to Archive.is.
[+] [-] abrowne|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] devit|5 years ago|reply
Where it's available, you just do a blood test every 3 months, test for HIV and syphilis and start therapy if positive.
[+] [-] TacticalMalice|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bb123|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] praptak|5 years ago|reply
It looks like the apps could have an emergency notification mechanism to help with that. Phone companies must implement 911, hookup companies should be required to implement an infection notification mechanism.
[+] [-] viraptor|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gjulianm|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eloisius|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hn_throwaway_99|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] alboy|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] inglor_cz|5 years ago|reply
With all the progress made because of Covid, it might just be possible. Syphilis has been a big vaccination challenge.
Edit: Why I am getting downvoted for this of all things? Do people hate syphilis victims so much? Not everyone who catches syphilis is a raging cheater.
[+] [-] yjftsjthsd-h|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sonicggg|5 years ago|reply
When humans build a great tool to eradicate a disease, people think it's a free pass to do anything. Sometimes I think we deserve whatever pandemic is thrown at us.
[+] [-] casualComment2|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] EGreg|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] batushka3|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] qrbLPHiKpiux|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] dang|5 years ago|reply
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26695867
[+] [-] kickout|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nickjohnthan|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] creamytaco|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] dang|5 years ago|reply
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
[+] [-] Avalaxy|5 years ago|reply
Gonorrhea unfortunately even shows advanced signs of antibiotic resistance. There is already "super-gonorrhea" which has resistance to our last line of defense, ceftriaxone.
[+] [-] Ygg2|5 years ago|reply
For ancient Greek eating human flesh was taboo. That also was a way to prevent prion diseases.
It's possible at some time that behavior gave society a bit of edge, but it then kept passing it over just as a form of tradition.
E.g. fasting is another practice that has hidden health benefits.
[+] [-] teachingassist|5 years ago|reply
I've moved from an area with a liberal attitude towards sex, to an area with a more Christian attitude towards sex, which extends to political decision-making around sexual health.
The main difference for me is... it is now extremely difficult to access appropriate testing for STDs, it is more difficult to access appropriate treatment in a timely or private manner, and it is more difficult to access preventative measures (this extends also to condoms).
None of this is a benefit.
[+] [-] pelagicAustral|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sokoloff|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] devit|5 years ago|reply
PrEP is a good thing because people who are on PrEP can be required to test frequently as a condition to obtain new medication (not sure if that happens in the US, but it does elsewhere).
[+] [-] necrotic_comp|5 years ago|reply
Or is it that people who make "bad" decisions are an other that need to be eradicated (like S&G)? Please, explain ?
[+] [-] emodendroket|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MichaelMoser123|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 34679|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tomjen3|5 years ago|reply
This may lead to more people doing very dangerous things, but this is a choice society has made, and frankly I think most of us have done things at one point or another we got away with only because we were lucky.
Some people take risks driving too fast, some people take risks having sex with more people. Why should we help the first group but not the last?
[+] [-] howinteresting|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] imdsm|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] SamoyedFurFluff|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] emodendroket|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] throw20210414|5 years ago|reply
meth seems to be the catalyst for the bad behavior done either recreationally (orgies) or while in bad situations arising from a cluster of root causes. I'm only going to address the latter:
the article mentions homeless women who trade sex for shelter. My sister is literally trying to be homeless right now. She has serious mental issues and can't live with anyone for long before she ruins their life and gets kicked out. this is a 20-year-long pattern. She even has access to therapy and shelter, but doesn't accept it. she has adhd and is probably somewhat spectral. she has a very narrow idea of how she wants to live her life: get an easy part-time job, live alone, and pay low rent. But this is not easy when she also freaks out on people, accusing them of abuse, physically assaulting them, etc. So she sometimes starts relationships with people to get access to shelter for short periods. Who knows what she's compromising on behind those closed doors. Could be unprotected sex and offers of drugs. I know for sure pot, alcohol, and cigarettes, but how much farther does it go? I know she's experiment with cocaine and psychedelics. Our family is devastated by all of this, has no idea what to do next, having taking advice from many caring friends, health professionals, etc.
So it's not just one root cause, there are numerous issues of economics, shelter, mental illness, biology, personal responsibility, modernity, inequality, alcoholic parents, realistic expectations and so on that all build on each other creating a "strange attractor," or quite a simply, a "drain."
When our species/culture was all outdoors anyway, I think crazy people like her used to fit in on the fringes. Raising a child had lots of beneficial influence from different types of people instead of just one alcoholic parent like in our case, or lots of phony impressions from self-filtered social media and brain-wave-engineered advertisements. Inequality in native tribes wasn't as extreme and we didn't have "rich kids" in class to compare ourselves to. Once daily living required keeping track of lots of things, like money, and sustaining professional relationships, the fringes of living got narrow and harsh. Then, when having an acceptable online life got added: passwords, service payments, visible resume, working phone, with charge locations, even more people fell through the cracks. They're the ones you seen in tents, in the woods, on the streets. And there is no easy solution... Fix half of the factors I listed above and the rest of the pattern will persist. This doesn't even address how many of these people end up in jail. If there's anything we can do, it's to find small ways to make "traditional life" a little easier for people who can't handle all of this.
[+] [-] golergka|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] metalliqaz|5 years ago|reply