All: this thread discusses two distinct lawsuits. Originally there were two threads, but I merged them (see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26900217). Sorry! Now they're blended and there's not enough energy to reverse the entropy, so you'll need to track which is which as you read the thread.
Apparently it's a supervision software that students are forced to install on their private computer and (as expected) it'll do its worst to invade your privacy and flag "suspicious" things, based on which the university might punish you.
"Suspicious" here means wearing glasses [3] or looking around in the room or blinking too much [4] or having eye and/or skin colors [1] that are difficult for AI to track or reading questions out aloud [2]. Because everyone knows that a good student is white, sits in a bright room, and will continuously stare at his/her PC screen while thinking about a difficult math problem, I guess. WTF?
I am so glad that this kind of abuse was not yet common when I was in university. I love sitting in the (dark) basement, it helps me concentrate. And I tend to close my eyes a lot because it helps me visualize the problem. I'm sure this kind of misguided software would have failed me.
And the worst part is: Bugs in this software will fail students in the real world. [4]
So it is crucially important that this type of software receives a lot of scrutiny to make sure it works as planned. But it seems that Proctorio is suing this guy for doing exactly that: Documenting how the software is supposed to work by linking to Proctorio's YouTube videos.
For what it's worth, at the school this happened at, UBC, Proctorio is now effectively banned, along with other similar "algorithmic" proctoring tools, and exams are no longer allowed to use it with some exceptions.
They've moved to Lockdown Browser without the recording, and to Zoom proctoring. In my opinion, neither are particularly effective measures against cheating, and I'm sure they are trivially bypassable.
The effect of these tools being phased out is that exams now must be harder or less student friendly. Typical practice in some of my courses has been to not allow students to go back to answered questions, while giving large amounts of questions with insufficient time. The exams are scaled, but I can imagine people doing worse in this kind of stress.
It's actually very disappointing that this whole monitoring system was deemed necessary to begin with. How screwed is the system that anyone one would believe this level of intrusion should be part of the education process.
I suspect there’s a strong case that universities are violating ADA and state equal-access laws if they’re using proctoring software that unfairly penalizes individuals with glasses, to say nothing of the issues raised by the potential of racially-biased AI. A few class action suits against state university systems might well be warranted.
I had to use Proctorio for a stats class that I took, and two or three times per test it asked me to lift my laptop up and rotate it so that it could see the entire room. The worst part was that when I was done the button to return to the test never showed up. Each time this happened, I had to contact customer support to get them to unlock my screen.
The distraction this posed had a measurable impact on my scores on these tests.
Maybe we need an honest to God religion forbidding the use of non-free software, and then we too can play the religion card. Class orders you to install Proctorio? "Sorry, that's against my religion." Fail the class? It's because they required me to sin against my religious beliefs and I would not.
Of course, like all religions, not all members will follow the beliefs all the time. At least that's what I tell myself while sinning with a non-free video game I installed. Many a pastor has molested children, but the courts still recognize those religions. So when the founder of this religion is caught duel-booting Windows, we'll just remember that the religion is divine, even if the people aren't.
Ah. Prictorio: education spyware just like Socrates used to impose on his pupils.
Seriously, the day my university required this would be the last day they received a dime from me. And I’d be getting a refund for the current semester.
This is the kind of thing used by companies with terrible management. I hope universities that rely on these extreme tools come to realize how badly it reflects on them.
My last uni used this and I had another major complaint: I had to show my drivers license to the person in the call center in India every time! None of my questions about what kind of privacy controls existed could be answered... and being a linux only person, it was a major pita to either get them to understand I don't have windows or to not give me a hard time if I was using a VM because who tf trusts that software? (the grwat irony being this school constantly touted its cybersecurity degree programs)
>And I tend to close my eyes a lot because it helps me visualize the problem
Nvidia has added eye-correction feature to it's Maxine platform(SDK with set of ML features for video conferencing) it can correct our eyes in real-time to show that we're looking at the camera even when we didn't. When I first saw it's demo the first thing which came to my mind was these proctoring tools[1]. It's a matter of time before all major video conferencing tools add these features or 3rd party plugins/hacks which enable it.
I'm not against these proctoring tools, Especially since there are not many options during lockdowns but considering what's at stake they deserve all the scrutiny they can get and if a company threatens with lawsuits for genuine criticisms it tells a lot about their business practice; Sadly this seems to be very common in the e-education sector(Checkout unicorns claiming to have placed 10 year old in Google after taking their 'coding' class and the retribution faced by activists for showcasing the lies).
> LSU student body president Stone Cox said that the fees, which could come out to $300, were prohibitive for students.
What the hell? Not only are universities mandating students infect their systems with malware, but they're making the students pay for the privilege? That's ridiculous.
If you think this is bad, I've been sent online coding tests that do the same thing after applying for positions. They require you to keep your camera on and record you as you complete the tests.
Thankfully, it's a good filter for deciding which employers I don't want to work for. I can only imagine what it's like working for a company that trusts their employees that little.
Wow, is that software legal to force upon your students? If you tried this in Europe, even with the student explicitly clicking "I consent", you would still be facing pretty serious GDPR penalties because the student had no other option than to accept making their consent invalid.
That's one of the reasons I wish more people would run Windows 10S or whatever the store only version was called. Or iOS.
Can't install shady third party drivers, can't install stuff like that that mess with hypervisors (and anyways, every app kind of runs in a sandboxed process anyways) and your app can go in the background at anytime!
Yet you could only link to one example for a totally different program ExamSoft.
They had a thick dark beard above a dark shirt and dark glasses with reflections (on a much lighter skin tone). They also look like they have a second eyebrow due to the lighting on their eye lid and glasses.
It could be their head shape tied to their race I guess, but you have a sample of one from a different program which we know nothing about what it's doing.
> "or reading questions out aloud [2]"
> "I am so glad that this kind of abuse was not yet common when I was in university. I love sitting in the (dark) basement, it helps me concentrate."
Compared to going to exam rooms full of people with noise and lighting outside of any control? When were students allowed to read out loud in the 'old' days?
We are in a pandemic, millions are dying, I don't get this attitude, what's the alternative? not do exams? I know I cheated, I know most other people at uni cheated with the old system which was hard to cheat at. Hell yes we would all cheat more if the new system allowed us to.
The videos in question are still on Youtube under Proctorio Reuploads for what it's worth.
As a remote accredited degree candidate (pre-pandemic so I did it before it was cool) the only alternative to Proctorio was finding an actual proctor in my area who was subject to approval by my university and who I would have to pay to sit and watch over me. Every exam was a multi-week hassle that I had to coordinate with the added stress of last minute cancellations. I much prefer Proctorio. Yeah, it’s intrusive for about 2 hours but then you can close it and go on with your life. Not really a big deal.
EFF: "...The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) filed a lawsuit today against Proctorio Inc. on behalf of college student Erik Johnson..."
GoFundMe page: "...My name is Ian Linkletter... wired over $50,000 to Arvay Finlay, LLP, doubling my legal defense fund. John Trueman is joined by Cathie Boies Parker, Q.C., and Mark Underhill..."
I feel like this comment should be at the top - for anyone who feels strongly about this issue and didn’t spot this link further down in his Twitter thread.
They should have just ignored this guy and gone on with life. Now the they got the EFF to deal with and it serves them right.
There is another HN thread on this and a lot of people in it are more upset about the line of work Proctorio is in and how they do it than the fact they sued this minor irritating student. My opinion is there is simply no easy pain free way to do fraud auditing and that's that. I just recently took a professional PeopleCert exam online with a guy watching me through my webcam in a closed room I had to display in advance etc and temp installed some invasive application. So what ? If there was a better way to deal with the unfortunate fact that some people will cheat then I would be all for it but just getting all shook up about a temporary set of specific restrictions for a singular type milestone event is a little unrealistic in my book.
But I am glad suing this kid is blowing up in their face.
The HN post you mentioned now seems to be merged with this one. Very confusingly. This puts yours and other comments way out of context.
Why do the mods/dang do this? Is it just to avoid multiple stories on the same topic on the home page? There’s got to be a better solution than this. At least providing some sort of log of changes would be helpful.
> This is a civil action seeking a declaratory judgment of noninfringement under the Copyright Act, 17 U.S.C. §§ 106, 107, as well as injunctive relief and damages for misrepresentation of copyright claims under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (“DMCA”), 17 U.S.C. § 512(f)
Oh cool, so the EFF is gonna claim a false DMCA filing. I hope the student will be made whole financially after what he had to go through; apparently he's been fighting this for a year.
This is something that Student Unions around the country should pick up and launch protests against. Refusing the take tests administered by Proctorio and having very loud protests across the country would be a perfect way to drive them out of business.
I have a question for anyone who has seen similar situations. (I'm 35+ years old and have never work at a corporation except for some small gigs when I was 18, so I'm really ignorant of how these companies and internal decision making work)
Why in the world would a company sue a critic, under weak legal arguments, thus buying themselves this kind of terrible negative publicity? Who will trust/like/or want to be associated with them now?
I guess that this is to suppress criticism, but it must be expensive and difficult to do the same in every jurisdiction in which critics pop up, so it looks like a dumb strategy (let alone immoral).
I mean the guy seems to be educated and good citizen, works at a Uni, you can publicly read his views on twitter. THe kind of person I tend to sympathize with. Without knowing who Proctorio is, I imagine them being the kind of company I don't want to be associated with, just because of this.
So lots of people commenting that they don't have an issue with such software. Fine, but that's an entirely different debate.
This is about the company sueing someone for criticising the software, by detailing how it is supposed to work. So even if we accept that we need such software, do we really want to go down the path that software companies can sue people for talking about how it works and criticising them?
I think the bigger issue should be how the University came to choose something like Proctorio. This has been the case with many colleges around the world; disconnected or ignorant authorities keep signing up to whatever the SaaS salesman pitches to them, without vetting the company's background and records, and not listening to the affected parties in their arrogance.
My own college struggled with online exams, and turned a deaf ear to students and even professors objecting against the platform being used (it's the most popular proctored exam platform). In the end, due to their own incompetence at handling exams, there turned out to be large-scale cheating and the college then forced the entire batch to give the exams again in the next term.
The problem was that COVID lockdowns took many schools by surprise, and instead of making exams designed for online platforms, they tried to fit regular into a online platform.
Turns out, it's incredibly easy to cheat on those exams.
I've got to wonder how much child porn is on Proctorio's servers and how they deal with it. My guess is 'negligently'.
Do they have systems to catch or prevent pervy teachers or proctorio employees who repeatedly watch recordings of students wearing revealing clothing, having wardrobe malfuctions, engaging in sexual activity without realizing they're being recorded, etc.
How many pedofiles has proctorio caught? If it's zero, I don't think they are looking at all.
Recently, I had an exam through ProctorU and thought I'd try to reclaim some privacy using Windows Sandbox when I learned that they utilize TeamViewer to take full control of your computer. This was not allowed only because parts of the control panel were disabled and they couldn't verify that I had only one monitor. I used a mirror to show them my laptop and desk but that was not sufficient. Spent a lot of time that weekend just trying to take the open-book exam.
I really hope that universities will consider their students before adopting this type of software.
I’ve sent an email in regarding a CCPA request and got this response.
“ Hello,
Thanks for reaching out! I'm following up on your request. I want to let you know that no one at Proctorio has access to your information. Only authorized personnel at your school (Instructors or Administrators) can access any of the information collected while taking an exam.
I'd be happy to discuss this further with your instructor if you would like to connect me to them.
I personally believe education should just move forward into a world where cheating is impossible. Hands-on schools like Olin College of Engineering make it practically impossible to cheat... because you actually have to build something! Sure, plagiarism is still an issue, but that's much easier to control for than monitoring students while they take a test.
As a technologist I've worked in "online bullet loans", payments and other controversial verticals but for the life of me , I would never work in such a dirty business (as Proctorio). I'd rather tell people I work in porn-tech (where people are literally f*d) than this asinine proctoring systems.
It’s as if nobody has ever read George Orwell’s 1984:
“It was terribly dangerous to let your thoughts wander when you were in any public place or within range of a telescreen. The smallest thing could give you away. A nervous tic, an unconscious look of anxiety, a habit of muttering to yourself – anything that carried with it the suggestion of abnormality, of having something to hide. In any case, to wear an improper expression on your face (to look incredulous when a victory was announced, for example) was itself a punishable offense.”
Have been overseeing some exams being run at a well regarded university. No remote proctoring software (i.e. spyware) is in use. Students are taking their exams in the web browser of their choosing, on the platform of their choosing. They aren't sat dialled into a video call or anything else (but they have a link for a backup one in case they have issues or need clarifications on a typo etc.)
It's straightforward - a well-designed examination should allow for adequate distinction between students, allowing everyone (who studied the course and learned) to show basic knowledge, and those who have more advanced understanding to demonstrate this.
In designing assessments, questions were peer-reviewed to ensure they are not "easily googleable". They were designed to focus not on asking "what is X?" but on "tell us a way that Y could be achieved" or "give an example of how you would do Z". These questions are pretty hard to google, and time pressure makes it harder still.
Focusing on understanding, and applying knowledge really seems to be the right way to design an exam. I can say from what I've seen and heard from colleagues so far, this approach is giving equal (if not more) differentiation among students than usual - the good students still perform well, and the poor students still perform poorly. And personally (from experience), I find it a more enjoyable to sit an exam that asks you to answer meaningful questions, than one that simply expects you to memorise and recite facts back. We're not bothered if you memorise the name - just describe how you'd solve the problem.
From the number of people doing poorly even on fairly straightforward questions, I'm not hugely concerned that giving the exam online made any significant difference. A non-trivial number of students didn't even complete a mandatory question (which was clearly marked), so I assume they found it suitably challenging, even with access to the world's knowledge at their fingertips. I'd say that's a good exam.
My university forcibly pushed students into online proctored examinations with similar privacy-invasive software too, despite repeated concerns raised by both students and instructors.
As expected, it turned out to be a colossal failure - students found the remote "invigilators" didn't pay attention for jack shit and started cheating in exams, leading to the college forcibly bringing the entire batch back to their campus and taking all the tests again along with the ones in the next term.
I'm sympathetic to the concerned individual threatened and harmed by corporate lawsuits, but I don't think I share the underlying concern.
> In Linkletter’s view, customers and users were not getting the whole story. The software performed all kinds of invasive tracking, like watching for “abnormal” eye movements, head movements, and other behaviors branded suspicious by the company. The invasive tracking and filming were of great concern to Linkletter, who was worried about students being penalized academically on the basis of Proctorio’s analysis.
In an in-person invigilated test environment, the invigilator/proctor is watching students carefully for suspicious movements and behaviours. We don't call that an invasion of privacy. While I don't like commercial proctoring software (I have to use some, not Proctorio, for students who can't enter the country because of Covid-19), being videoed by a machine while you do a test is a) not much different from everyone else in the class who's being watched in person (you probably get watched less, actually), b) a way to make sure essential academic standards are upheld. No one is going to get penalised based on some fallible "AI" system; "suspicious" events get reviewed by a person and usually aren't suspicious at all.
How's universities are not yet part of class action lawsuit for gross abuse of privacy, students rights and segregation due to the personal characteristics?
It's endemic. I think critical mass at this point would just be a single case such as this one to catch fire in the national media. Something is missing from the equation and my guess is maybe deep pockets or familiar actors.
[+] [-] dang|5 years ago|reply
One is discussed in the OP. The other URL was https://twitter.com/Linkletter/status/1385004344903290883, but that doesn't give any background. There's more here:
https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/22/21526792/proctorio-onlin...
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/02/student-surveillance-v...
Edit: It turns out there have been quite a few previous threads too. Pointers to those at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26907558.
[+] [-] fxtentacle|5 years ago|reply
(like me)
Apparently it's a supervision software that students are forced to install on their private computer and (as expected) it'll do its worst to invade your privacy and flag "suspicious" things, based on which the university might punish you.
"Suspicious" here means wearing glasses [3] or looking around in the room or blinking too much [4] or having eye and/or skin colors [1] that are difficult for AI to track or reading questions out aloud [2]. Because everyone knows that a good student is white, sits in a bright room, and will continuously stare at his/her PC screen while thinking about a difficult math problem, I guess. WTF?
I am so glad that this kind of abuse was not yet common when I was in university. I love sitting in the (dark) basement, it helps me concentrate. And I tend to close my eyes a lot because it helps me visualize the problem. I'm sure this kind of misguided software would have failed me.
And the worst part is: Bugs in this software will fail students in the real world. [4]
So it is crucially important that this type of software receives a lot of scrutiny to make sure it works as planned. But it seems that Proctorio is suing this guy for doing exactly that: Documenting how the software is supposed to work by linking to Proctorio's YouTube videos.
[1] https://twitter.com/uhreeb/status/1303139738065481728
[2] https://www.insider.com/viral-tiktok-student-fails-exam-afte...
[3] https://proctorio.com/frequently-asked-questions
[4] https://www.reddit.com/r/UBC/comments/g2ub05/god_kicked_out_...
[+] [-] liminalsunset|5 years ago|reply
They've moved to Lockdown Browser without the recording, and to Zoom proctoring. In my opinion, neither are particularly effective measures against cheating, and I'm sure they are trivially bypassable.
The effect of these tools being phased out is that exams now must be harder or less student friendly. Typical practice in some of my courses has been to not allow students to go back to answered questions, while giving large amounts of questions with insufficient time. The exams are scaled, but I can imagine people doing worse in this kind of stress.
[+] [-] Guthur|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] HillRat|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lolinder|5 years ago|reply
The distraction this posed had a measurable impact on my scores on these tests.
[+] [-] MetaWhirledPeas|5 years ago|reply
What's crucially important is that this type of software is BANNED. I now have a new question to ask schools when my kid applies to one.
[+] [-] Buttons840|5 years ago|reply
Of course, like all religions, not all members will follow the beliefs all the time. At least that's what I tell myself while sinning with a non-free video game I installed. Many a pastor has molested children, but the courts still recognize those religions. So when the founder of this religion is caught duel-booting Windows, we'll just remember that the religion is divine, even if the people aren't.
[+] [-] christophilus|5 years ago|reply
Seriously, the day my university required this would be the last day they received a dime from me. And I’d be getting a refund for the current semester.
[+] [-] Sosh101|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] DonHopkins|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] arminiusreturns|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Abishek_Muthian|5 years ago|reply
>And I tend to close my eyes a lot because it helps me visualize the problem
Nvidia has added eye-correction feature to it's Maxine platform(SDK with set of ML features for video conferencing) it can correct our eyes in real-time to show that we're looking at the camera even when we didn't. When I first saw it's demo the first thing which came to my mind was these proctoring tools[1]. It's a matter of time before all major video conferencing tools add these features or 3rd party plugins/hacks which enable it.
I'm not against these proctoring tools, Especially since there are not many options during lockdowns but considering what's at stake they deserve all the scrutiny they can get and if a company threatens with lawsuits for genuine criticisms it tells a lot about their business practice; Sadly this seems to be very common in the e-education sector(Checkout unicorns claiming to have placed 10 year old in Google after taking their 'coding' class and the retribution faced by activists for showcasing the lies).
[1]https://twitter.com/heavyinfo/status/1381831802315177989
[+] [-] kelnos|5 years ago|reply
> LSU student body president Stone Cox said that the fees, which could come out to $300, were prohibitive for students.
What the hell? Not only are universities mandating students infect their systems with malware, but they're making the students pay for the privilege? That's ridiculous.
[+] [-] heavyset_go|5 years ago|reply
Thankfully, it's a good filter for deciding which employers I don't want to work for. I can only imagine what it's like working for a company that trusts their employees that little.
[+] [-] t0mas88|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 908B64B197|5 years ago|reply
Can't install shady third party drivers, can't install stuff like that that mess with hypervisors (and anyways, every app kind of runs in a sandboxed process anyways) and your app can go in the background at anytime!
Don't like it? Roll your own devices.
[+] [-] bregma|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aaron695|5 years ago|reply
Yet you could only link to one example for a totally different program ExamSoft.
They had a thick dark beard above a dark shirt and dark glasses with reflections (on a much lighter skin tone). They also look like they have a second eyebrow due to the lighting on their eye lid and glasses.
It could be their head shape tied to their race I guess, but you have a sample of one from a different program which we know nothing about what it's doing.
> "or reading questions out aloud [2]" > "I am so glad that this kind of abuse was not yet common when I was in university. I love sitting in the (dark) basement, it helps me concentrate."
Compared to going to exam rooms full of people with noise and lighting outside of any control? When were students allowed to read out loud in the 'old' days?
We are in a pandemic, millions are dying, I don't get this attitude, what's the alternative? not do exams? I know I cheated, I know most other people at uni cheated with the old system which was hard to cheat at. Hell yes we would all cheat more if the new system allowed us to.
The videos in question are still on Youtube under Proctorio Reuploads for what it's worth.
[+] [-] senectus1|5 years ago|reply
this is some serious 1984 type shit.
[+] [-] throw14082020|5 years ago|reply
Procto-: Anus; (more frequently) rectum;
-torio: radioactive chemical element (in spanish)
Therefore, it is a radioactive anus?
[+] [-] vincentmarle|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Nextgrid|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] djoldman|5 years ago|reply
GoFundMe page: "...My name is Ian Linkletter... wired over $50,000 to Arvay Finlay, LLP, doubling my legal defense fund. John Trueman is joined by Cathie Boies Parker, Q.C., and Mark Underhill..."
Different lawsuits?
[+] [-] tailspin2019|5 years ago|reply
Have an upvote.
[+] [-] davesque|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jimmySixDOF|5 years ago|reply
There is another HN thread on this and a lot of people in it are more upset about the line of work Proctorio is in and how they do it than the fact they sued this minor irritating student. My opinion is there is simply no easy pain free way to do fraud auditing and that's that. I just recently took a professional PeopleCert exam online with a guy watching me through my webcam in a closed room I had to display in advance etc and temp installed some invasive application. So what ? If there was a better way to deal with the unfortunate fact that some people will cheat then I would be all for it but just getting all shook up about a temporary set of specific restrictions for a singular type milestone event is a little unrealistic in my book.
But I am glad suing this kid is blowing up in their face.
[+] [-] moron4hire|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] varenc|5 years ago|reply
Why do the mods/dang do this? Is it just to avoid multiple stories on the same topic on the home page? There’s got to be a better solution than this. At least providing some sort of log of changes would be helpful.
[+] [-] phildenhoff|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|5 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] batmaniam|5 years ago|reply
Oh cool, so the EFF is gonna claim a false DMCA filing. I hope the student will be made whole financially after what he had to go through; apparently he's been fighting this for a year.
[+] [-] kevin_thibedeau|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] plank_time|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] helloguillecl|5 years ago|reply
Why in the world would a company sue a critic, under weak legal arguments, thus buying themselves this kind of terrible negative publicity? Who will trust/like/or want to be associated with them now?
I guess that this is to suppress criticism, but it must be expensive and difficult to do the same in every jurisdiction in which critics pop up, so it looks like a dumb strategy (let alone immoral).
I mean the guy seems to be educated and good citizen, works at a Uni, you can publicly read his views on twitter. THe kind of person I tend to sympathize with. Without knowing who Proctorio is, I imagine them being the kind of company I don't want to be associated with, just because of this.
I don't understand.
[+] [-] cycomanic|5 years ago|reply
This is about the company sueing someone for criticising the software, by detailing how it is supposed to work. So even if we accept that we need such software, do we really want to go down the path that software companies can sue people for talking about how it works and criticising them?
[+] [-] dartharva|5 years ago|reply
My own college struggled with online exams, and turned a deaf ear to students and even professors objecting against the platform being used (it's the most popular proctored exam platform). In the end, due to their own incompetence at handling exams, there turned out to be large-scale cheating and the college then forced the entire batch to give the exams again in the next term.
[+] [-] TrackerFF|5 years ago|reply
Turns out, it's incredibly easy to cheat on those exams.
[+] [-] dang|5 years ago|reply
Students of color are getting flagged because testing software can’t see them - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26745582 - April 2021 (21 comments)
Student Surveillance Vendor Proctorio Files SLAPP Lawsuit to Silence a Critic - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26250800 - Feb 2021 (40 comments)
Parents demand academic publisher drop Proctorio surveillance tech - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25506007 - Dec 2020 (106 comments)
Proctorio used DMCA to take down a student’s critical tweets - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25002730 - Nov 2020 (116 comments)
An ed-tech specialist spoke out about proctoring software. Now he’s being sued - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24872084 - Oct 2020 (6 comments)
EduTech Spyware Is Still Spyware: Proctorio Edition - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24450248 - Sept 2020 (9 comments)
[+] [-] cwkoss|5 years ago|reply
Do they have systems to catch or prevent pervy teachers or proctorio employees who repeatedly watch recordings of students wearing revealing clothing, having wardrobe malfuctions, engaging in sexual activity without realizing they're being recorded, etc.
How many pedofiles has proctorio caught? If it's zero, I don't think they are looking at all.
[+] [-] jacksavage|5 years ago|reply
I really hope that universities will consider their students before adopting this type of software.
[+] [-] Immune|5 years ago|reply
“ Hello,
Thanks for reaching out! I'm following up on your request. I want to let you know that no one at Proctorio has access to your information. Only authorized personnel at your school (Instructors or Administrators) can access any of the information collected while taking an exam.
I'd be happy to discuss this further with your instructor if you would like to connect me to them.
Best,
Josh”
[+] [-] jkelleyrtp|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xtracto|5 years ago|reply
As a technologist I've worked in "online bullet loans", payments and other controversial verticals but for the life of me , I would never work in such a dirty business (as Proctorio). I'd rather tell people I work in porn-tech (where people are literally f*d) than this asinine proctoring systems.
Just... no.
[+] [-] northrup|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] g_p|5 years ago|reply
It's straightforward - a well-designed examination should allow for adequate distinction between students, allowing everyone (who studied the course and learned) to show basic knowledge, and those who have more advanced understanding to demonstrate this.
In designing assessments, questions were peer-reviewed to ensure they are not "easily googleable". They were designed to focus not on asking "what is X?" but on "tell us a way that Y could be achieved" or "give an example of how you would do Z". These questions are pretty hard to google, and time pressure makes it harder still.
Focusing on understanding, and applying knowledge really seems to be the right way to design an exam. I can say from what I've seen and heard from colleagues so far, this approach is giving equal (if not more) differentiation among students than usual - the good students still perform well, and the poor students still perform poorly. And personally (from experience), I find it a more enjoyable to sit an exam that asks you to answer meaningful questions, than one that simply expects you to memorise and recite facts back. We're not bothered if you memorise the name - just describe how you'd solve the problem.
From the number of people doing poorly even on fairly straightforward questions, I'm not hugely concerned that giving the exam online made any significant difference. A non-trivial number of students didn't even complete a mandatory question (which was clearly marked), so I assume they found it suitably challenging, even with access to the world's knowledge at their fingertips. I'd say that's a good exam.
[+] [-] dartharva|5 years ago|reply
As expected, it turned out to be a colossal failure - students found the remote "invigilators" didn't pay attention for jack shit and started cheating in exams, leading to the college forcibly bringing the entire batch back to their campus and taking all the tests again along with the ones in the next term.
[+] [-] mkl|5 years ago|reply
> In Linkletter’s view, customers and users were not getting the whole story. The software performed all kinds of invasive tracking, like watching for “abnormal” eye movements, head movements, and other behaviors branded suspicious by the company. The invasive tracking and filming were of great concern to Linkletter, who was worried about students being penalized academically on the basis of Proctorio’s analysis.
In an in-person invigilated test environment, the invigilator/proctor is watching students carefully for suspicious movements and behaviours. We don't call that an invasion of privacy. While I don't like commercial proctoring software (I have to use some, not Proctorio, for students who can't enter the country because of Covid-19), being videoed by a machine while you do a test is a) not much different from everyone else in the class who's being watched in person (you probably get watched less, actually), b) a way to make sure essential academic standards are upheld. No one is going to get penalised based on some fallible "AI" system; "suspicious" events get reviewed by a person and usually aren't suspicious at all.
[+] [-] Trias11|5 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ranvel|5 years ago|reply