top | item 26971592

*.ycombinator.com Terms of Use

63 points| crazypython | 4 years ago |ycombinator.com | reply

73 comments

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[+] crazypython|4 years ago|reply
Their old terms of use: "When you click on a link, our server will send you the corresponding page."

I wonder what changed and made them add the new terms of use.

[0]: http://web.archive.org/web/20141020194316/https://www.ycombi...

[+] nevir|4 years ago|reply
> I wonder what changed and made them add the new terms of use.

CCPA's April enforcement deadline, most likely.

[+] quickthrowman|4 years ago|reply
> I wonder what changed and made them add the new terms of use.

Probably a lawsuit, mandatory arbitration avoids lawsuits. I’m just guessing, I have no concrete info.

[+] amznthrwaway|4 years ago|reply
Maybe it’s related to their decision to turn YCombinator into a “safe space” for very specific people; or the way YC takes steps to silence some voices while hiding the fact that they’re silenced. These are deliberate decisions that cause the site to work very differently than naive people envision it from working.

I’m not crazy enough to sue over that shit; but somebody might be.

[+] drdaeman|4 years ago|reply
> You agree to not use the Site to: [...]

> advertise or offer to sell or buy any goods or services for any business purpose that is not specifically authorized;

Heh. I'd say this part is disconnected from reality.

A very significant number of posts and comments recommend aka advertise (in one way or another) various goods or services. Typically third-party goods or services ("I use this"), sometimes first-party ("we made this"). And this is what brings huge value to the website. I get it, ToS are about spam, but it's probably impossible to discern good and bad advertising in legal terms.

[+] eganist|4 years ago|reply
Specific authorization is probably fulfilled here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

> Please don't use HN primarily for promotion. It's ok to post your own stuff occasionally, but the primary use of the site should be for curiosity.

Emphasis mine.

---

Edit: It gets more interesting with the WhoIsHiring threads. I haven't seen specific authorizations for them, but considering HN staff have commented in said threads in the past (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26306206), this may also be specifically authorized. (I don't know who owns WhoIsHiring)

[+] eganist|4 years ago|reply
The first meaningful Terms of Use seems to have gone live Feb 17, 2017. After that, January 1, 2020, and then January 15, 2021.

Pre-2017: http://web.archive.org/web/20161229045611/http://www.ycombin...

2017: http://web.archive.org/web/20170303015020/http://www.ycombin...

2020: http://web.archive.org/web/20200130013739/https://www.ycombi...

2021: http://web.archive.org/web/20210301143626/http://www.ycombin... (current linked)

I'm still doing diffs.

Edit:

2021 (left) v. 2020 (right) diff:

https://imgur.com/a/8LKXKNs

2020 (left) v. 2017 (right): Privacy policy was significantly reworked, not the biggest surprise considering CCPA, but n++ is choking on the compare. Some interesting TOU changes though:

https://imgur.com/a/q4zzm8G

[+] alexeldeib|4 years ago|reply
This comment made me notice a small typo in the 2017 version fixed in 2020

> h. Future Changes to Arbitration Agreemen

Someone forgot to dot their Is and cross their Ts :)

[+] smnrchrds|4 years ago|reply
They allow only California residents to delete their personal information, and they may require proof of residency to initiate a deletion. I am disappointed.
[+] dang|4 years ago|reply
I don't speak legalese, but I can tell you what the actual practice is. For YC data (e.g. applications to YC, participation in Startup School, Work at a Startup, and so on), we delete people's data when they ask us to. For HN data, it's more complicated—we try not to delete posts that got replies, because that's unfair to the commenters who replied, and so on. But we have a lot of tricks to help people in more precise ways than wholesale deletion, and we help people with such requests every day. This is in HN's FAQ: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html. There's more explanation at these links from yesterday:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26962860

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26959559

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26959675

[+] dooglius|4 years ago|reply
Unless it's changed, I remember that there's no agree checkbox on the sign-ups page. How enforceable is this?
[+] rcMgD2BwE72F|4 years ago|reply
Do they comply with GDPR now?

Here's what HN admins were responding last yeat to requests to have your account deleted (article 17 of the GDPR):

>Our understanding based on the analysis done by YC's legal team is that Hacker News does not fall under the GDPR, so for the time being we're sticking with the approach of not deleting account histories wholesale but helping with privacy concerns in any other way we can. The problem with deleting entire histories is that it guts the threads the account had participated in, which is unfair to the other users who posted.

[+] RuffleGordon|4 years ago|reply
Can someone explain the legalese. I'm having a hard time deciphering it
[+] asdfasgasdgasdg|4 years ago|reply
Which part specifically is confusing you? Like, it's a long TOU, so I don't think anyone's gonna write down the whole explanation here, but let's pick one paragraph:

> Commercial Use: Unless otherwise expressly authorized herein or in the Site, you agree not to display, distribute, license, perform, publish, reproduce, duplicate, copy, create derivative works from, modify, sell, resell, exploit, transfer or upload for any commercial purposes, any portion of the Site, use of the Site, or access to the Site. The buying, exchanging, selling and/or promotion (commercial or otherwise) of upvotes, comments, submissions, accounts (or any aspect of your account or any other account), karma, and/or content is strictly prohibited, constitutes a material breach of these Terms of Use, and could result in legal liability.

This means: don't use the content of the site to make derivative works to make money, otherwise we might sue you.

It's mostly straightforward stuff like that. If there's a specific part that you're having trouble with, I'm happy to have a crack at explaining it.

[+] soarfourmore|4 years ago|reply
Strange that it mentions CCPA but not GDPR. Is HackerNews GDPR compliant? What are they tracking/storing?
[+] marcinzm|4 years ago|reply
I'm guessing being a US organization they don't care about GDPR just as they don't care about adhering to Chinese internet standard laws.
[+] fatsdomino001|4 years ago|reply
What’s the best practice for making a Terms & Conditions or Privacy Policy page these days? Eg if you start up a social network like hackernews
[+] Dma54rhs|4 years ago|reply
Lawyer obviously is the best practice.
[+] mimixco|4 years ago|reply
We run our SaaS on Digital Ocean's backend and their TOS says that anything we allow onto their boxes has to comply, so that means our customers have to comply with DO's TOS.

To handle this, we link to theirs in place of a custom one.

[+] brighton36|4 years ago|reply

[deleted]

[+] paxys|4 years ago|reply
Weird coming from a site where most members are paid a lot of money for using their brains.
[+] beervirus|4 years ago|reply
You can deny its existence if you want, but that’s about as legally helpful and effective as sovereign citizen nonsense.
[+] opnitro|4 years ago|reply
I'm not sure postmodern is the right word to use here? It's pretty standard liberalism in terms of creating/enforcing property rights over things.