It sounds nice if you can pull it off, but on the occasions where I've been continually moving from place to place I've found it much harder to actually get anything done. Continual travel adds cognitive and other entropic overheads which deplete your mental and energy real estate.
I spent a month in Argentina last year thinking I was going to work on a personal project and got absolutely nothing done, so I can definitely relate. The distractions of foreign places definitely add to the cognitive overhead.
We've done this pretty successfully, actually, for going on two years - and you're right about the continual travel planning being depleting...but new places are also really energizing...the key is making sure the length of the stay coincides with your release cycles. So, stay somewhere a month or more for a really big push, two weeks for maintenance and bug fix releases. This gives another fun advantage: release code names very easy to choose/remember. :)
Also - make sure you've got a nice view. We've found that our productivity increases substantially when we've got something nice to look at. Building product in basements is depressing and can really drain your energy/creativity/purpose. There's something about the ocean or the desert that can really drive you forward.
I've been doing the same for 9 months now. I've travelled round the whole world, had a fantastic time, and wrote a book for O'Reilly as I went. It's been the best year of my life. In fact, it turns out that writing books is one of the best ways to do this - as it's very flexible and a successful book will just about cover traveling costs. What most people don't realize, is how cheap it is to do this.
As always though, everything is best in moderation. I'm yearning to be back in the startup/technology scene - and I will be come September. I'm sure that'll I'll do another trip like this in my twenties though (I'm 21 now).
One thing I'm certain of is that my expenses for a trip like this when I was 21 would have been much lower than for a trip like this now.
I've sadly grown accustomed to fancier meals (restaurants over ramen) and softer beds (hotels over hostels). It would be a lot of mental work to keep my expectations down and readjust them to what they were in my student days.
At the beginning of June I went to Chris Guillebeau's first World Domination Summit in Portland, OR (http://worlddominationsummit.com/) and met lots of people who are living like this. I highly recommend going next year (I'm already registered!) if you're interested in learning about the techniques people use for lifestyle design.
We've been doing this for three years now. This couple seemed to focus on having a year abroad, we've made it our lifestyle, and we're doing a startup (rather than consulting).
I started this as a response to the "how to keep productive" question, but I'll try to address the other questions people have been asking in the thread later on.
We also have the issue of taking some period of time to get back into the productive zone. What we do is spend the visa limit time in each country. For americans in the UK that is 6 months, for instance. So we rented an apartment for 6 months. In the Shengen zone (most of europe) it is 3 months, and last year we spent 2.5 months in berlin.
In both cases we spent most of the time working a normal lifestyle %90 of the time. After our 2.5 months in berlin we spent a couple weeks traveling as tourists (that's where the other 0.5 months went.)
I figure 2 weeks on either side of a relocation are not going to be productive, so might as well spend half of that time, or so, doing tourist stuff. By having such great breaks regularly, we are recharged and I think more productive when we are working.
The weird thing is, indoors, the only thing foreign really is the outlets... so it feels like we're still in the USA, but then you step outdoors and the language, accents and architecture are completely different. So you can "travel" across the globe every day. It is really hard to explain that feeling but it is pretty powerful.
--
Taxes & Visas-- As far as governments are concerned we're tourists. We present ourselves this way and we get tourist visas. However, for most visas "tourist" and "business" visas are essentially the same. We don't work in any country in the sense that we don't have a job, we don't participate in their employment schemes. We're taxed like americans (the US taxes your income no matter where it is earned).
--
As I mentioned we're doing a startup. (We did one and we're just in the process of pivoting so what the new one is at this point is a little vague.) I don't feel out of the technology scene at all-- I have all the same connections I did before we left, except that I can't go to local unconferneces, but I didn't really get much out of them.
There is one conference that I miss that is done in the USA only, but we started buying the videos for it. Spending hundreds of dollars on conference videos sounds expensive, but it is cheap compared to actually going there (Even from within the USA). I don't really miss the networking opportunities-- and we're now networking with a real international network. EG: we network with the locals wherever we are.
The technology scene really is global.
--
Budget:
This is a big one. This inhibits a lot of people. However, if you've got an income from your work, and savings to get by in the USA, you can get buy longer when you're traveling. Even traveling in expensive first world places like europe, right now, we're able to live on the budget we were living on in the USA. Overall, we're actually spending a bit less, and we spend a lot less when we are living in lower cost places (even places in eastern europe, which are "expensive" compared to southeast asia, are cheep.)
So, we could have remained in the USA, and spent the same amount of money. I don't think we would have gotten any more work done, and we would have had a lot less fun. Plus, as our product is global, better understanding of other countries helps.
--
Health insurance: We have the health insurance we had in the USA. It covers us globally. There are specific health insurance plans that cover long term travelers and we might switch, we just haven't done so yet.
Neither of us are under 30, nor are we over 50.
--
Crazy? You hear a lot of people who knock this idea. Lots of people say "I'd love to do that but I've got responsibilities" or the equivalent.
That's fine... just don't presume we're not doing serious work, we aren't doing a "real" startup or anything lie that. These days startups often have employees spread around the globe... we don't have to carry the whole company with us.
I think people thinks this is harder than it is. Or maybe for some people the idea of living out of a backpack is tough.
Personally, I relish the challenge!
Between my laptop, camera, and assorted stuff, I've got about 7 pounds of clothes etc, and 10 pounds of electronics gear. Every time we-repack, we actually shed some unnecessary stuff. It is a process... but I love it.
Living abroad in your 20s is an unforgettable experience. I lived in Europe and Asia for most of the 1990s, and still look back wistfully at that time of my life. I gave up some early career "juice" but got so much more out of it.
Note that doing what the OP did is far more difficult if you have children, although it is possible to work stable jobs in a single country for longer stints with kids.
Moral of the story: structure your life around things you love. Travel is cool, but not for me long term. I love internet startups and getting better with every new idea/execution. Soon, I will be able to stop consulting and get my cash flow from a self sustained business. In the mean time, I consult to fund me ideas. Life is good.
In Belgium (and other countries in Europe) there is a gap-year remuneration. It's a bit like the mini-retirements Stefan Sagmeister is talking about. They are meant for this sort of stuff.
Next to that there are several ways to do what you want to do: like studying abroad, volunteering.
We're not saying what we did should be 'copied', we're saying 'figure out what you want, and find a way to do it' A way that fits you.
And that's not the other thing mentioned on the comments.
Or even better,come to Canada and claim refugee status when you arrive, you get social assistance payments and free dental and health care while you are processed through the queue to determine if you are legitimate, takes about a year. Apparently its quite a popular vacation option for people from Mexico, there is even a "how to" guide online.
This looks like fun, but so many people have done this now, it's almost a cliche.
It almost seems more unique to hear about a hacker from NYC documenting a summer working in New Paltz, rather than another story about social media experts working from cafes in Buenos Aires and Thailand.
True, but that doesn't make it a lesser experience for those who are doing it. I doubt many lifestyle designers do it because "it's the cool thing", they're doing it because it can be an amazing adventure and experience. It's only natural to want to talk about the great experiences you've had.
I think you're overanalysing a phrase written by people whose first language is not English. :) I interpret it as "Don't kill yourself to make money if you can live /like/ you already have it."
The hosts are two guys who have created a million dollar business in the last three years while traveling. Their business is not some bullshit "blog"/earn money by selling tips on how to make money thing, it's a real business that actually sells physical products.
Everybody should check it out. It's a shame that they're charging for the first episodes since it makes it kinda hard to recommend to people (I discovered them before that), but their content is definitely worth paying for. It's probably the best audio-only business content I've heard.
I find the Cost of Living Index on the bottom of that site to be suspect. If NYC is 100, Berlin is 91.71?
I simply don't trust that. I lived in New York for years, and have spent several weeks in Berlin.
My wife and I are currently doing something similar. Traveling the world (4 continents, 20+ countries). She's working on photography and blogging while I'm developing my own iphone apps. Best decision we've ever made, and haven't looked back since (been on the road for 3 months, currently at an airbnb in Taiwan). My wife keeps a blog at http://www.shenventure.com if you're interested in reading about how we did it.
Awesome. I'm in Bangalore too while my stuff is halfway between Cali and NYC. My parents live here so don't know it counts :) ... If you would like to grab a drink drop me an email- railsnoob at yahoo dot com. I would love to hear about your travels and how you started doing this.
This is just how I'm hoping to spend most of my 20s.
I did freelance for a while, and I came to the conclusion that I don't really enjoy doing client work, so now I'm working on a startup instead.
Does anybody have experience doing a startup on the road, as opposed to the more common freelancing/blogging/consulting?
My aim is to get my SaaS product(s) to the point of requiring almost zero work. (Everything automated, effective 'help' section to keep the amount support emails as low as possible, etc.)
This seems impossible with freelancing/blogging/consulting, as you'll only be able to lessen the workload so much (i.e. it can't be self-sustaining), whereas depending on the startup you can theoretically get by on just a few hours work per week, while your revenues are still increasing.
Voxilate/HeyTell was built on the road; inside the US, though, as we've a pretty important server component and we've learned that if we are both offline, bad things happen.
I.e., if we have to fly somewhere, we don't fly together. Phones on multiple networks capable of tethering, a wireless broadband card and a router that'll use it are a must-have (our Cradlepoint's been a champ...the Mifi's cool, but the ability to plug a card or Ethernet or both into the CP rocks).
We've had a blast and we're still going gangbusters after almost two years on the road - so it's totally doable.
My advice would be not to be too disappointed if your zero-work aim is never achieved (maybe you could get away with this if you didn't have users or a server component...hah!); we pretty much work around the clock, but we love it.
We have an old blog post from our first month mobile about reducing burn rates while doing this sort of thing if you're interested - http://voxilate.blogspot.com/2010/01/reduce-your-micro-start... - it could stand some updating, but still pretty much applies (plus, the user comment was spot-on).
Currently on the road in south east Asia while launching several (small) web apps/products. Definitely not easy, will be back in Europe in 1 month at least for a few months. You can check my blog www.sparklewise.com for stories about it ;-)
How does this work with respect to visas and the like? I don't imagine that countries like you coming in to work and earn money without paying any taxes.
Most of those laws apply to people who are earning money locally. All around the world, it's a huge grey area when the work you are doing as a visitor is not local -- such as working for a client back in the US.
Since in all my travels, I've never found a country with a clear explanation of what is & isn't allowed wrt remote work, I think of it like this: If you are on a trip and somebody from home calls you to ask you to make a decision on an investment, would that country tax you? No. If your investments back home made lots of money while you were on vacation, would that country tax you? No. What if you wrote emails telling other people what to do? What if you did a little bit of it for them? Etc. The thought experiment goes on.
We've been doing this for going on two years now. Off-season--even just by a few weeks--rocks for better pricing. We've gotten a bunch of beautiful places very inexpensively off-season, after school starts, for example...this is in the US; for what we do, we need consistent & reliable Internet access, plus we're traveling with our pet.
VRBO & HomeAway have been pretty solid senders, we've tried a bunch of other options, but I don't think we've ever managed to book via any other site (except for one rental straight through the condo complex in an area not well-served by HomeAway/VRBO). Searching VRBO is a pain in the neck, but the owners tend to be a lot more experienced.
I've been on the road six months so far, and have been using Craigslist, AirBNB, HomeAway, and VRBO.com. (Though these last two nearly never have sane prices.)
You absolutely have to haggle. Every time. Even if you're only staying two days, ask for a discount because you're a quiet computer programmer who knows how to clean up after themself. Other good reasons include last-minute offers and long stays. I've knocked 50% off of ~50 nights so far, the usual discount for even trying anything is 25%, and only once has none of the half-dozen places I've contacted not taken something off the price.
The most fun part of this lifestyle is being able to say "I'd like to go to Paris again this year", then finding work close enough to Paris to pay for going to Paris. By not needing to squeeze every dollar out of my trips, I can be much more flexible and enjoy the travel more.
IANAL, but I've been traveling 6 months and have read a lot about this. I have never seen a work permit needed unless you are working for a local company. If you are an American working for American clients remotely, you're fine.
Always, always, always, always, always check visa requirements. If you need one and don't have one, you will be buying a very expensive plane ticket when you get turned back at the border. Default tourist visas for American citizens is 3-6 months most places, but you always have to check. Don't trust any website that's not the official government, and call an embassy if you're at all unsure.
This is fascinating, and I would really like to try this at some point. However, I am 30, married and have a 1 year old kid. Does anyone have any similar resources, examples, for people who have done this with kid(s)?
[+] [-] motters|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] stevenp|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jen_h|14 years ago|reply
Also - make sure you've got a nice view. We've found that our productivity increases substantially when we've got something nice to look at. Building product in basements is depressing and can really drain your energy/creativity/purpose. There's something about the ocean or the desert that can really drive you forward.
[+] [-] mike_esspe|14 years ago|reply
Though as far as i understood, they solved this with going out as tourists only on weekends.
[+] [-] maccman|14 years ago|reply
As always though, everything is best in moderation. I'm yearning to be back in the startup/technology scene - and I will be come September. I'm sure that'll I'll do another trip like this in my twenties though (I'm 21 now).
[+] [-] Periodic|14 years ago|reply
I've sadly grown accustomed to fancier meals (restaurants over ramen) and softer beds (hotels over hostels). It would be a lot of mental work to keep my expectations down and readjust them to what they were in my student days.
It would be a very good exercise though.
[+] [-] maayank|14 years ago|reply
How do I know if I have enough experience on a subject to write a book about it?
[+] [-] keeptrying|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] stevenp|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] econgeeker|14 years ago|reply
I started this as a response to the "how to keep productive" question, but I'll try to address the other questions people have been asking in the thread later on.
We also have the issue of taking some period of time to get back into the productive zone. What we do is spend the visa limit time in each country. For americans in the UK that is 6 months, for instance. So we rented an apartment for 6 months. In the Shengen zone (most of europe) it is 3 months, and last year we spent 2.5 months in berlin.
In both cases we spent most of the time working a normal lifestyle %90 of the time. After our 2.5 months in berlin we spent a couple weeks traveling as tourists (that's where the other 0.5 months went.)
I figure 2 weeks on either side of a relocation are not going to be productive, so might as well spend half of that time, or so, doing tourist stuff. By having such great breaks regularly, we are recharged and I think more productive when we are working.
The weird thing is, indoors, the only thing foreign really is the outlets... so it feels like we're still in the USA, but then you step outdoors and the language, accents and architecture are completely different. So you can "travel" across the globe every day. It is really hard to explain that feeling but it is pretty powerful.
-- Taxes & Visas-- As far as governments are concerned we're tourists. We present ourselves this way and we get tourist visas. However, for most visas "tourist" and "business" visas are essentially the same. We don't work in any country in the sense that we don't have a job, we don't participate in their employment schemes. We're taxed like americans (the US taxes your income no matter where it is earned).
-- As I mentioned we're doing a startup. (We did one and we're just in the process of pivoting so what the new one is at this point is a little vague.) I don't feel out of the technology scene at all-- I have all the same connections I did before we left, except that I can't go to local unconferneces, but I didn't really get much out of them.
There is one conference that I miss that is done in the USA only, but we started buying the videos for it. Spending hundreds of dollars on conference videos sounds expensive, but it is cheap compared to actually going there (Even from within the USA). I don't really miss the networking opportunities-- and we're now networking with a real international network. EG: we network with the locals wherever we are.
The technology scene really is global.
-- Budget:
This is a big one. This inhibits a lot of people. However, if you've got an income from your work, and savings to get by in the USA, you can get buy longer when you're traveling. Even traveling in expensive first world places like europe, right now, we're able to live on the budget we were living on in the USA. Overall, we're actually spending a bit less, and we spend a lot less when we are living in lower cost places (even places in eastern europe, which are "expensive" compared to southeast asia, are cheep.)
So, we could have remained in the USA, and spent the same amount of money. I don't think we would have gotten any more work done, and we would have had a lot less fun. Plus, as our product is global, better understanding of other countries helps.
--
Health insurance: We have the health insurance we had in the USA. It covers us globally. There are specific health insurance plans that cover long term travelers and we might switch, we just haven't done so yet.
Neither of us are under 30, nor are we over 50.
--
Crazy? You hear a lot of people who knock this idea. Lots of people say "I'd love to do that but I've got responsibilities" or the equivalent.
That's fine... just don't presume we're not doing serious work, we aren't doing a "real" startup or anything lie that. These days startups often have employees spread around the globe... we don't have to carry the whole company with us.
I think people thinks this is harder than it is. Or maybe for some people the idea of living out of a backpack is tough.
Personally, I relish the challenge!
Between my laptop, camera, and assorted stuff, I've got about 7 pounds of clothes etc, and 10 pounds of electronics gear. Every time we-repack, we actually shed some unnecessary stuff. It is a process... but I love it.
[+] [-] ilamont|14 years ago|reply
Note that doing what the OP did is far more difficult if you have children, although it is possible to work stable jobs in a single country for longer stints with kids.
[+] [-] josephcooney|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] skarayan|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rafski|14 years ago|reply
Is the ultimate advice "be from a wealthy country that lets you travel on welfare"? :)
[+] [-] nomadznu|14 years ago|reply
Next to that there are several ways to do what you want to do: like studying abroad, volunteering. We're not saying what we did should be 'copied', we're saying 'figure out what you want, and find a way to do it' A way that fits you.
And that's not the other thing mentioned on the comments.
[+] [-] mistermann|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rdouble|14 years ago|reply
It almost seems more unique to hear about a hacker from NYC documenting a summer working in New Paltz, rather than another story about social media experts working from cafes in Buenos Aires and Thailand.
[+] [-] kristofferR|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] viethonk|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wallflower|14 years ago|reply
http://bravenewtraveler.com
http://worldhum.com
[+] [-] irahul|14 years ago|reply
Why not be rich and live rich. I get the "Live rich" part but that "Don't be rich" is unwarranted.
[+] [-] jbrains|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] diggum|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kristofferR|14 years ago|reply
The hosts are two guys who have created a million dollar business in the last three years while traveling. Their business is not some bullshit "blog"/earn money by selling tips on how to make money thing, it's a real business that actually sells physical products.
Everybody should check it out. It's a shame that they're charging for the first episodes since it makes it kinda hard to recommend to people (I discovered them before that), but their content is definitely worth paying for. It's probably the best audio-only business content I've heard.
[+] [-] danspodcast|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jonmaim|14 years ago|reply
For example, look at the difference between Lausanne, Switzerland and Bangalore, India (the indian silicon valley!) -> bit.ly/ltwXUf
[+] [-] bravura|14 years ago|reply
Berlin is far cheaper than NYC. It is considered one of the cheapest big cities in Europe. And numbeo says that it is only 10% cheaper than NYC: http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/cpi_explained.jsp
I find that the estimate on Expatistan seem much more reasonable: http://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/comparison/berlin/n...
Expatistan: NYC is 43% more expensive than Berlin
Perhaps this is because Expatistan provides more emphasis on the entertainment category?
p.s. Please don't use shortened links on HN.
[+] [-] bignoggins|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jonmaim|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] keeptrying|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] peng|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Harkins|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zml|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] TA662|14 years ago|reply
I did freelance for a while, and I came to the conclusion that I don't really enjoy doing client work, so now I'm working on a startup instead.
Does anybody have experience doing a startup on the road, as opposed to the more common freelancing/blogging/consulting?
My aim is to get my SaaS product(s) to the point of requiring almost zero work. (Everything automated, effective 'help' section to keep the amount support emails as low as possible, etc.)
This seems impossible with freelancing/blogging/consulting, as you'll only be able to lessen the workload so much (i.e. it can't be self-sustaining), whereas depending on the startup you can theoretically get by on just a few hours work per week, while your revenues are still increasing.
[+] [-] jen_h|14 years ago|reply
I.e., if we have to fly somewhere, we don't fly together. Phones on multiple networks capable of tethering, a wireless broadband card and a router that'll use it are a must-have (our Cradlepoint's been a champ...the Mifi's cool, but the ability to plug a card or Ethernet or both into the CP rocks).
We've had a blast and we're still going gangbusters after almost two years on the road - so it's totally doable.
My advice would be not to be too disappointed if your zero-work aim is never achieved (maybe you could get away with this if you didn't have users or a server component...hah!); we pretty much work around the clock, but we love it.
We have an old blog post from our first month mobile about reducing burn rates while doing this sort of thing if you're interested - http://voxilate.blogspot.com/2010/01/reduce-your-micro-start... - it could stand some updating, but still pretty much applies (plus, the user comment was spot-on).
[+] [-] toumhi|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ori_b|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ahoyhere|14 years ago|reply
Since in all my travels, I've never found a country with a clear explanation of what is & isn't allowed wrt remote work, I think of it like this: If you are on a trip and somebody from home calls you to ask you to make a decision on an investment, would that country tax you? No. If your investments back home made lots of money while you were on vacation, would that country tax you? No. What if you wrote emails telling other people what to do? What if you did a little bit of it for them? Etc. The thought experiment goes on.
[+] [-] sjmulder|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jen_h|14 years ago|reply
VRBO & HomeAway have been pretty solid senders, we've tried a bunch of other options, but I don't think we've ever managed to book via any other site (except for one rental straight through the condo complex in an area not well-served by HomeAway/VRBO). Searching VRBO is a pain in the neck, but the owners tend to be a lot more experienced.
[+] [-] Harkins|14 years ago|reply
You absolutely have to haggle. Every time. Even if you're only staying two days, ask for a discount because you're a quiet computer programmer who knows how to clean up after themself. Other good reasons include last-minute offers and long stays. I've knocked 50% off of ~50 nights so far, the usual discount for even trying anything is 25%, and only once has none of the half-dozen places I've contacted not taken something off the price.
[+] [-] jonmaim|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jbrains|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] robertduncan|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Harkins|14 years ago|reply
Always, always, always, always, always check visa requirements. If you need one and don't have one, you will be buying a very expensive plane ticket when you get turned back at the border. Default tourist visas for American citizens is 3-6 months most places, but you always have to check. Don't trust any website that's not the official government, and call an embassy if you're at all unsure.
[+] [-] rflrob|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] seanharper|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] carlio|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] orofino|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] YvesHanoulle|14 years ago|reply