> with anything else meaning “upgrade to PRO” which, by the way, costs EUR 0.99 monthly or EUR 8.99 per annum.
This is exactly what I expected to read when I started reading. So many apps have done this to me that I'm now hesitant to install, and become dependent on, any new apps.
I'm genuinely sorry, but I'm not paying a subscription for an app that doesn't do a lot of back-end work (that's valuable to me). No, syncing doesn't count; I have iCloud and Nextcloud and the share sheet functionality for that. No, social features don't count either. This goes quadruple for apps that have a feature enabled and then sneak it behind a paywall many updates later.
And when I write that I'm genuinely sorry, I really am! I know that developers need to earn a living but I'm not willing to sustain it on the back of 10 or 20 or 30 "low annual price of just $9 or $15 or $25 or $49 per year!" subscriptions. If that means fewer apps or fewer people making their living at being app developers, that is bad and I hope that applies pressure on Apple and Google to add features to their app stores that make a better balance.
Apple clearly must have some strategic reason for continuing to resist this model year in and year out, but there is a proven middle ground between subscription-only and one-time-purchase licensing. Software in a handful of fields (Sketch in UX design, Bitwig Studio in music production, Jetbrains in software development) has adopted it, and it's simply where you gate updates rather than access by subscription.
It's the fairest model there is: Developers get a recurring income stream so long as they maintain the software, while customers aren't forced to rent software ad infinitum.
I wish there were some way Epic V. Apple could force Apple to implement this. It would solve so many problems on the App Store.
> This is exactly what I expected to read when I started reading. So many apps have done this to me that I'm now hesitant to install, and become dependent on, any new apps.
To provide a little context: Most developers have no choice but to do this. I've seen a lot of developers for the App Store getting broke because of Apple's refund policies. People are quick to click refund, but then the developer has to pay for Apple's 30% of the fees (and transfer costs).
Say, you sell an App for 10.00$. Apple gets 3.00$ of that when a user buys the App, and the remaining 7.00$ go to the developer's account. When the user is now unhappy with the app they can get a refund for the costs.
User gets 10.00$ back, but from the developer, which means the developer now has a net negative of -3.00$ (ignoring the accumulative bank transfer costs)
And no, there's no limit in how many people can scam an App developer on the App Store, which means that you could literally use millions in the case of a social justice thing that goes viral, which happened to quite some Indie game developers I personally have worked with and was a target of in the past because the target audience (kids, teens and the like) doesn't realize the damage they're causing with this. Kids think it's funny and it forces the Game developers to implement the features they so desperately want, but the result is that the developer is broke and legally so indebted that they won't be able to recover from this anyhow; certainly not when they are a private developer.
> I'm genuinely sorry, but I'm not paying a subscription for an app that doesn't do a lot of back-end work (that's valuable to me)
What does count as "a lot of back-end work" that's valuable to you?
> I know that developers need to earn a living but I'm not willing to sustain it on the back of 10 or 20 or 30 "low annual price of just $9 or $15 or $25 or $49 per year!" subscriptions
Why are subscriptions bad and what would your solution to this be?
I moved off Fantastical for this reason - I used to recommend it to my friends and coworkers but I kind of feel affronted that features disappeared behind a paywall that I'd paid a license for previously (several times actually).
I really wish Flexibits had created a different app without the cloud features and let this one languish. Clearly they needed a "teams" version for families/small enterprise that they felt they could monetize. That they bundled it into their main app annoys me.
Same with 1password - but in that case, I felt it was worth my subscription (family for several users, admin capabilities worth it alone).
- I used an app (gas cubby) to keep track of my car mileage. You could enter your vehicles. When you filled up, you would select a vehicle and enter mileage and gallons and cost, and it would keep track of everything. You could export the data. You could also enter lots of other things, like VIN, insurance, service intervals, etc.
It was a decent app and offline.
And one update - everything changed. It made everything cloud based, uploaded all your very private information and added a login. jerks.
- I used an app (camscanner+) that would let you take a picture of a document, it would find the edges and turn it into a .pdf file. This was sold to tencent, which had no privacy policy (broken link) and uploaded all your data to the cloud. When the privacy policy link eventually worked it was in super ambiguous broken english and basically said they use all your personal information.
- I used an app called adblock ios that created a VPN at 127.0.0.1 and allowed you to filter your phone traffic. Apple made them change (cripple) it. Happily I read the 1-star reviews and didn't update.
I think I'm a pretty astute user, the general population just has to get used to being worked over in this fashion.
Apple is 100% in the wrong here. You should:
- be able to know what your phone is doing, what sites apps are contacting
- be able to firewall your phone - even to apple
- know of changes - especially change of policies/behavior/ownership before installing an app
- be able to revert apps
I think the GPL is becoming more and more important as this stuff has taken root.
It's a shame this guy can't easily roll back to an earlier version of the app. This is one of the reasons why Android users back up APK files of the apps they like. That way, you're still free to use the software you already use, license withstanding.
The thing is, it used to be possible on iOS but along the way Apple crippled it. Back in the days you'd connect iOS devices to your computer and sync them, the syncing can involve transferring *.ipa files from the device to the computer, and can also install new apps. If you wanted to roll back, just delete the installed app on the device and ask iTunes to reinstall it using the file from the computer.
Eventually other features (app thinning?) got prioritized and this is no longer possible.
Steam has the steamdb listing all versions of packages that are available for download. As long as you have a steam account that "owns" a license for the software you can use that info to download any listed version through steam.
Wouldn’t that put an undue burden on app developers who have a server-side API if their users were running a bunch of different old versions, en masse?
Because of things like this I stopped updating apps a long time ago. But now many apps have a “phone home“ aspect, where it will literally lock you out of using the app if you don’t upgrade to the latest version every so often. Which is especially annoying if you need to approve a transaction that was blocked on your credit card but then you can’t do it until you update the app but your signal isn’t great, or you need to reply to a Facebook message but even though you can see the message the app refuses to function until you update. And a million other frustrating examples.
I miss the days of things not changing out from under me without me having any say about it. I remember a time when I looked forward to updates because they brought interesting new functionality or, you know, actually fixed bugs. And when I didn’t like a new version of something, I could simply go back and reinstall the old version and keep using that.
I have used the iPad for over 10 years now, and I can now say that most of the apps that I have had in the past that were actually useful are now unusable or worse than they were.
It is actually amazing that Apple’s ability to prevent people from downgrading aligns perfectly with developers wanting monthly subscriptions for everything.
The only application that has gotten better consistently over the last 10 years has been iThoughts, which is one of the best tools ever for high-level abstract thinkers, and it is the only reason I use the iPad now.
It's really unfortunate that there are no commercial incentives to provide strict sandboxing for outdated versions of applications, rather than only allowing the latest version to be installed. There's a strong public good in preventing versions of applications with known vulnerabilities from accessing the network (or perhapse restricted to an (possibly empty) allowlist of domains). However, the inability to save old installers and run old applications in some cases leads to lost functionality, which is sometimes effectively lost data.
I got my wife to start using a password manager, but I really should have given her some guidance. She picked one that was popular in her native language. I also encouraged her to upgrade iOS on her phone. We backed up her phone and upgraded, but the new iOS version would drain her fully charged phone in an hour or so. So, we restored iOS from backup. Unfortunately, her password manager had been discontinued, and iOS backups just contain effectively remote symlinks to installed apps rather than containing the actual binaries. The discontinued password manager then showed up as something like a stub displaying an error message that the app could not be installed. Luckily, I was able to get into the backup and determine the password manager used an unencrypted sqlite DB with English column names and I was able to give my wife her passwords back.
I would have much preferred a warning that the backed-up version was no longer supported, and be given 3 options: (1) install the last released version in a locked-down sandbox (2) install the backed-up version in a locked-down sandox or (3) uninstall the app.
Apple uses their App Store rules to ensure a good experience for customers. The descriptions on apps must accurately reflect what the app is about.
What if Apple required the changelog on app updates to accurately reflect what changed? This would create a better experience for users and is exactly the sort of thing I would want in my walled garden.
> 2.3.12 Apps must clearly describe new features and product changes in their “What’s New” text. Simple bug fixes, security updates, and performance improvements may rely on a generic description, but more significant changes must be listed in the notes.
I was super annoyed when the really fun Galaxy on Fire 2 HD that I paid $9 or so for got bought by a different company and suddenly had ads and micro transactions. I haven’t played it since.
Also annoyed when Apple removed Binding of Isaac which I paid $15 for, my money and the app never to be seen again.
I’m in the minority on this one, I’m sure. But the subscription apps don’t bother me at all. I don’t even know how many I have..I don’t need to since the App Store manages it for me. I know that I pay for Concepts, Halide, and Overcast. But I don’t know what else. I don’t even know how much those apps cost..but I like using them and I want them to keep working well. Which means the developers need to be able to earn a living. Besides, what’s the use buying a phone that costs two thousand dollars if I can’t splurge here and there and drop a few bucks on an app that I like?
I would assume that this Pro version is intended to be completely unlocked all the time, while the free version is being monetized and directed towards people who want to try something but aren't dedicated users
(Although I don't understand why they don't simply have the "Pro" version be a $20 once-off in-app-purchase in the free app bundle)
> Although I don't understand why they don't simply have the "Pro" version be a $20 once-off in-app-purchase in the free app bundle
Most in-app purchases can't be shared between family members. I will never buy an in-app purchase again. I learned this the hard way after spending $20 on a children's game and my son could only use my phone to play it -- not my partner's. It was really annoying to always have to give up my phone when on the plane/train.
OmniFocus has a similar thing, with a standalone “Enterprise” edition (https://apps.apple.com/us/app/omnifocus-3-enterprise/id14847...), where IAP is replaced with an upfront price. I believe it’s because schools can get a volume discount on paid apps but not IAP, and Omni says it “simplifies deployment” for enterprise users.
Thank Apple for deciding for you that you can never install any version of an app (on your own device!) that isn't current.
More in the stream of neverending censorship bullshit from the App Store.
Apps aren't even included in "backups", so restoring a device from backup won't actually put it into the state it was before:
you get the current versions of any apps (if they are even still available, sometimes they aren't) re-downloaded at time of restore. This is, of course, contrary to the entire concept of what a backup is for.
Of course, you can't download any apps at all without an Apple ID, and also providing your unchangeable hardware serial number to Apple (transmitted when you launch the App Store like a supercookie). You also can't get the Apple ID without providing a telephone number that can receive SMS, so you basically have to dox yourself to restore a working backup.
I've had every single iPhone that has ever been produced (except the 3G - I went from 1 to 3GS), but I'm fairly confident I have purchased my last one.
Honestly almost all market-guessing apps are crap from the start. And those that aren’t only fit you accidentally. For apps to be useful, users have to create them themselves or join into groups that discuss features face to face and quickly implement these, without apps being a private property (eula) or an unhealthy pride (foss). The main stopper for that is an enormous complexity of the app programming and the semantic abyss it turned into, on all platforms. Today it feels like 90’s programming was actually simpler (vba, delphi, various game makers), and every modern programming tool is just a gatekeeper of huge budgets.
If in 1990s I’d have to connect(mapStateToProps) or something similar to draw few spaceships on the screen, I’d become a lawyer or a salesman. And that’s still relevant. If you want cool apps, reduce salesmen and increase makers. Summon them from regular smart people of all ages right now and stop maximizing young geek culture.
Many apps follow a similar curve. They peak at a certain value/annoyance level and then the developers realize they're as high as they're going to go in terms of revenue. Then they start looking for ways to further monetize their users. For some of them that's adding dumb trendy features like social integration. For some that's locking previously available features behind a paywall. For a few it means selling your whole app to a third party to fill your users' phones with adware.
It's disgusting and it's not getting better. Probably 50% of my screen time is spent on apps I no longer update because the new versions are unacceptable.
You might be able to do a full encrypted iOS backup to your computer, which usually includes the Documents of most applications. It has to be "encrypted" though, or the backup excludes a lot of things.
Unfortunately Apple has made advertising in free apps unviable with their universally loved by users iOS14.5 update. "Stick it to the man!!!" Unfortunately, this means advertisers who funded free apps cannot pay for apps any longer. End users must start paying for apps now.
I have converted my apps to subscription now away from advertising. I am making a more steady income. I will convert my last app in the next month or two.
Apple sell more devices with this privacy change, and they get big profit in taking a 30% cut of subscriptions. They took 0% cut of advertising.
So many end users choose to abuse app developers who funded apps through advertising. Instead this is a self inflicted wound, end users support Apple making this privacy change, so now end users have to pay for apps instead of advertisers.
If you continue to see users as the enemy, it is likely you will not have much business success. In my experience, organizations that follow on that path don't bring marketable value for much longer.
So, what is the alternative? The same as it was with software ever since the dawn of computing: Sell major versions. Provide bugfixes in minor versions. Be more like GoodNotes, who follow that exact model.
[+] [-] techsupporter|4 years ago|reply
This is exactly what I expected to read when I started reading. So many apps have done this to me that I'm now hesitant to install, and become dependent on, any new apps.
I'm genuinely sorry, but I'm not paying a subscription for an app that doesn't do a lot of back-end work (that's valuable to me). No, syncing doesn't count; I have iCloud and Nextcloud and the share sheet functionality for that. No, social features don't count either. This goes quadruple for apps that have a feature enabled and then sneak it behind a paywall many updates later.
And when I write that I'm genuinely sorry, I really am! I know that developers need to earn a living but I'm not willing to sustain it on the back of 10 or 20 or 30 "low annual price of just $9 or $15 or $25 or $49 per year!" subscriptions. If that means fewer apps or fewer people making their living at being app developers, that is bad and I hope that applies pressure on Apple and Google to add features to their app stores that make a better balance.
[+] [-] mortenjorck|4 years ago|reply
It's the fairest model there is: Developers get a recurring income stream so long as they maintain the software, while customers aren't forced to rent software ad infinitum.
I wish there were some way Epic V. Apple could force Apple to implement this. It would solve so many problems on the App Store.
[+] [-] kps|4 years ago|reply
You should be hesitant to become dependent on anything that does not provide you unfettered access to your data in a usable format.
[+] [-] vmception|4 years ago|reply
Everyone has to figure out a marketable skill until their rate of labor is exceeded by their rate of capital. If they fail they fail, whoops.
I make no claims about how anything should be. This is what it is.
[+] [-] cookiengineer|4 years ago|reply
To provide a little context: Most developers have no choice but to do this. I've seen a lot of developers for the App Store getting broke because of Apple's refund policies. People are quick to click refund, but then the developer has to pay for Apple's 30% of the fees (and transfer costs).
Say, you sell an App for 10.00$. Apple gets 3.00$ of that when a user buys the App, and the remaining 7.00$ go to the developer's account. When the user is now unhappy with the app they can get a refund for the costs.
User gets 10.00$ back, but from the developer, which means the developer now has a net negative of -3.00$ (ignoring the accumulative bank transfer costs)
And no, there's no limit in how many people can scam an App developer on the App Store, which means that you could literally use millions in the case of a social justice thing that goes viral, which happened to quite some Indie game developers I personally have worked with and was a target of in the past because the target audience (kids, teens and the like) doesn't realize the damage they're causing with this. Kids think it's funny and it forces the Game developers to implement the features they so desperately want, but the result is that the developer is broke and legally so indebted that they won't be able to recover from this anyhow; certainly not when they are a private developer.
[+] [-] ZephyrBlu|4 years ago|reply
What does count as "a lot of back-end work" that's valuable to you?
> I know that developers need to earn a living but I'm not willing to sustain it on the back of 10 or 20 or 30 "low annual price of just $9 or $15 or $25 or $49 per year!" subscriptions
Why are subscriptions bad and what would your solution to this be?
[+] [-] r00fus|4 years ago|reply
I really wish Flexibits had created a different app without the cloud features and let this one languish. Clearly they needed a "teams" version for families/small enterprise that they felt they could monetize. That they bundled it into their main app annoys me.
Same with 1password - but in that case, I felt it was worth my subscription (family for several users, admin capabilities worth it alone).
[+] [-] qwertox|4 years ago|reply
Verbesserung = Improvement. Verschlimmerung = Aggravation.
While the seller calls it a Verbesserung, the consumer calls it a Verschlimmerung. Officially it then is a Verschlimmbesserung.
[+] [-] nostromo|4 years ago|reply
This seems less like an improvement gone awry though, and more like a classic case of what in English we'd call "bait and switch."
[+] [-] op00to|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] peterburkimsher|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] asddubs|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|4 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] h0nd|4 years ago|reply
The context I known it from, are situations where you already have an answer which is correct. But then you 'revise' it so the answer is wrong.
[+] [-] m463|4 years ago|reply
Just the same, I will count some of them:
- I used an app (gas cubby) to keep track of my car mileage. You could enter your vehicles. When you filled up, you would select a vehicle and enter mileage and gallons and cost, and it would keep track of everything. You could export the data. You could also enter lots of other things, like VIN, insurance, service intervals, etc.
It was a decent app and offline.
And one update - everything changed. It made everything cloud based, uploaded all your very private information and added a login. jerks.
- I used an app (camscanner+) that would let you take a picture of a document, it would find the edges and turn it into a .pdf file. This was sold to tencent, which had no privacy policy (broken link) and uploaded all your data to the cloud. When the privacy policy link eventually worked it was in super ambiguous broken english and basically said they use all your personal information.
- I used an app called adblock ios that created a VPN at 127.0.0.1 and allowed you to filter your phone traffic. Apple made them change (cripple) it. Happily I read the 1-star reviews and didn't update.
I think I'm a pretty astute user, the general population just has to get used to being worked over in this fashion.
Apple is 100% in the wrong here. You should:
- be able to know what your phone is doing, what sites apps are contacting
- be able to firewall your phone - even to apple
- know of changes - especially change of policies/behavior/ownership before installing an app
- be able to revert apps
I think the GPL is becoming more and more important as this stuff has taken root.
[+] [-] lilyball|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] p2t2p|4 years ago|reply
But you can. 1Blocker firewall everything for you, albeit it requires you to add an SSL certificate to trust.
[+] [-] TheSpiceIsLife|4 years ago|reply
1. Find a handful of decent apps you use and like
2. Copy the apps functionality and user interface
3. Wait for the inevitable update that breakes your use-case
4. Launch
[+] [-] post_break|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] twobitshifter|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] smoldesu|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kccqzy|4 years ago|reply
Eventually other features (app thinning?) got prioritized and this is no longer possible.
[+] [-] josefx|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dubrocks|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] OkGoDoIt|4 years ago|reply
I miss the days of things not changing out from under me without me having any say about it. I remember a time when I looked forward to updates because they brought interesting new functionality or, you know, actually fixed bugs. And when I didn’t like a new version of something, I could simply go back and reinstall the old version and keep using that.
[+] [-] mensetmanusman|4 years ago|reply
It is actually amazing that Apple’s ability to prevent people from downgrading aligns perfectly with developers wanting monthly subscriptions for everything.
The only application that has gotten better consistently over the last 10 years has been iThoughts, which is one of the best tools ever for high-level abstract thinkers, and it is the only reason I use the iPad now.
[+] [-] KMag|4 years ago|reply
I got my wife to start using a password manager, but I really should have given her some guidance. She picked one that was popular in her native language. I also encouraged her to upgrade iOS on her phone. We backed up her phone and upgraded, but the new iOS version would drain her fully charged phone in an hour or so. So, we restored iOS from backup. Unfortunately, her password manager had been discontinued, and iOS backups just contain effectively remote symlinks to installed apps rather than containing the actual binaries. The discontinued password manager then showed up as something like a stub displaying an error message that the app could not be installed. Luckily, I was able to get into the backup and determine the password manager used an unencrypted sqlite DB with English column names and I was able to give my wife her passwords back.
I would have much preferred a warning that the backed-up version was no longer supported, and be given 3 options: (1) install the last released version in a locked-down sandbox (2) install the backed-up version in a locked-down sandox or (3) uninstall the app.
[+] [-] blendergeek|4 years ago|reply
Apple uses their App Store rules to ensure a good experience for customers. The descriptions on apps must accurately reflect what the app is about.
What if Apple required the changelog on app updates to accurately reflect what changed? This would create a better experience for users and is exactly the sort of thing I would want in my walled garden.
[+] [-] illnewsthat|4 years ago|reply
> 2.3.12 Apps must clearly describe new features and product changes in their “What’s New” text. Simple bug fixes, security updates, and performance improvements may rely on a generic description, but more significant changes must be listed in the notes.
[1]: https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#acc...
[+] [-] wincy|4 years ago|reply
Also annoyed when Apple removed Binding of Isaac which I paid $15 for, my money and the app never to be seen again.
[+] [-] theshadowknows|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] interpol_p|4 years ago|reply
https://apps.apple.com/au/app/receipt-box-spending-tracker/i...
The same developer appears to offer a "Pro" version of their app with no in-app purchases or subscriptions. It is priced around $20:
https://apps.apple.com/au/app/receipt-box-pro/id1289911732#?...
I would assume that this Pro version is intended to be completely unlocked all the time, while the free version is being monetized and directed towards people who want to try something but aren't dedicated users
(Although I don't understand why they don't simply have the "Pro" version be a $20 once-off in-app-purchase in the free app bundle)
[+] [-] withinboredom|4 years ago|reply
Most in-app purchases can't be shared between family members. I will never buy an in-app purchase again. I learned this the hard way after spending $20 on a children's game and my son could only use my phone to play it -- not my partner's. It was really annoying to always have to give up my phone when on the plane/train.
[+] [-] dustyharddrive|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bombcar|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] asddubs|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] irrational|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sneak|4 years ago|reply
More in the stream of neverending censorship bullshit from the App Store.
Apps aren't even included in "backups", so restoring a device from backup won't actually put it into the state it was before: you get the current versions of any apps (if they are even still available, sometimes they aren't) re-downloaded at time of restore. This is, of course, contrary to the entire concept of what a backup is for.
Of course, you can't download any apps at all without an Apple ID, and also providing your unchangeable hardware serial number to Apple (transmitted when you launch the App Store like a supercookie). You also can't get the Apple ID without providing a telephone number that can receive SMS, so you basically have to dox yourself to restore a working backup.
I've had every single iPhone that has ever been produced (except the 3G - I went from 1 to 3GS), but I'm fairly confident I have purchased my last one.
[+] [-] mttjj|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wruza|4 years ago|reply
If in 1990s I’d have to connect(mapStateToProps) or something similar to draw few spaceships on the screen, I’d become a lawyer or a salesman. And that’s still relevant. If you want cool apps, reduce salesmen and increase makers. Summon them from regular smart people of all ages right now and stop maximizing young geek culture.
[+] [-] anoncow|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Causality1|4 years ago|reply
It's disgusting and it's not getting better. Probably 50% of my screen time is spent on apps I no longer update because the new versions are unacceptable.
[+] [-] Operyl|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] v8engine|4 years ago|reply
Did the developer change since his screenshot?
[+] [-] altitudinous|4 years ago|reply
I have converted my apps to subscription now away from advertising. I am making a more steady income. I will convert my last app in the next month or two.
Apple sell more devices with this privacy change, and they get big profit in taking a 30% cut of subscriptions. They took 0% cut of advertising.
So many end users choose to abuse app developers who funded apps through advertising. Instead this is a self inflicted wound, end users support Apple making this privacy change, so now end users have to pay for apps instead of advertisers.
[+] [-] DocTomoe|4 years ago|reply
So, what is the alternative? The same as it was with software ever since the dawn of computing: Sell major versions. Provide bugfixes in minor versions. Be more like GoodNotes, who follow that exact model.