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Researchers, lawmakers want Facebook's mental health research

388 points| tareqak | 4 years ago |npr.org | reply

219 comments

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[+] azemetre|4 years ago|reply
It's very odd, I use to use Instagram and it would make me depressed. IDK how to explain, I don't even have any friends on there I follow. Just something about seeing everyone at their best 100% of the time, doing amazing things 100% of the time, never facing adversity 100% of the time.

I know it's not realistic but it still gets to your head.

I uninstalled it from my phone I feel better about myself after a few weeks.

I'm guessing most of, if not all, social media is the same. I'm slowly trying to ween myself off but it is so meticulously addictive.

[+] PragmaticPulp|4 years ago|reply
> IDK how to explain, I don't even have any friends on there I follow.

Social media is best used for keeping in touch with friends and family. If you're just browsing popular photos from people you don't know, it's basically an interactive and targeted version of watching TV. We all grew up understanding that endless TV consumption is an unhealthy activity that we should minimize, but it has taken a while for the same sentiment to be applied to social media.

I don't bother with the discover tab in Instagram and I mostly follow people I know. I can usually catch up on everything in 5-10 minutes per day at most, including some comments on friends' photos.

> I'm slowly trying to ween myself off but it is so meticulously addictive.

Being addicted to anything is a massive trigger for depression, especially when it displaces productive activities and replaces them with sedentary consumption. If you can't use something without becoming addicted, it's best to not use it at all.

[+] mumblemumble|4 years ago|reply
It's admittedly an extreme case, but I've been seeing Instagram fairly directly harm a friend's mental health. She is repeatedly seeing people on Instagram doing elaborate things - decoration, cooking, parenting, etc., and it's giving her unrealistic expectations about what standards she should be upholding in everything she does, be it cooking or crafting or interior décor or parenting or whatever. She isn't just trying to keep up with the Joneses, she's trying to keep up with the Joneses and the Nguyens and the Singhs and the Smiths and the Telliers all at the same time. The extreme impossibility of anyone actually doing this has more or less turned her life into (in her estimation) an endless stream of failure, and it's really wearing her down.

The craziest thing is, it happened so quickly. On year she was doing her own thing and loving it. Then her mom got her onto Instagram, and a year later she was trying to do everyone else's thing and chronically burnt out.

I'm not sure it's entirely Instagram's fault, though. A while back I decided to stop renewing my Make Magazine subscription for more or less the same reason.

[+] wcunning|4 years ago|reply
I have a very different experience with Instagram in particular. I have a very tightly controlled machinist and woodworker account that has taught me innumerable little things, connected me with people who have helped on all kinds of problems and only given me positive reinforcement. There are other communities I've dipped a toe in that are far more toxic, but I have made the choice to stop engaging in those communities as a result.

On the other end of the spectrum, Facebook used to be a cesspool for me, since I didn't like the amount of politics and high school classmates I didn't like in high school in my feed. Then, I unfollowed everyone that posted any politics of any kind, unfriended people I intended to never see again, and now my feed is only a handful of groups that are incredibly friendly and helpful communities around overly obsessive coffee culture. Otherwise, I now use Marketplace pretty heavily since it seems to have largely replaced Craigslist in my area with better targeting that actually regularly gets my interests right. Now that I have made the choices to use the tool well, it's really really helpful. You have to take some responsibility for the bad experience you have on these platforms -- they only push you content you engage with, so you can choose to stop seeing that crap if you want to.

[+] nlh|4 years ago|reply
My experience and $0.02:

If you use Instagram the way "normal" people do, it's a path to sadness. Selfies, one-upmanship, parties, perfect cakes, perfect gardens, exotic vacations, etc. All the badness. It's just human nature and it's what the platform has become. Bleh.

If, however, you go into Instagram and aggressively curate your feed to be hyper-specific to a (visual) niche you're interested in, it can be really, really great.

I have 3 Instagram accounts - my "main" one (in which I follow friends), and that's become a hellscape of all of the above. I just don't use it anymore.

My other 2 are hyper-specific: One follows pets (parrots, specifically), the other is all about coin collecting (@numismattack ahem shameless plug). Absolutely zero variation from those themes. And you know what? It's a really fun way to immerse yourself in those respective worlds! All interesting niche content, all the time. I suggest you (and others) give that a try.

Ps - no matter what your main feed is, stay far far away from the "Explore" tab. That is brain poison. It's like pure algorithmic dopamine generation and it's the root of all evil on that platform.

[+] sriku|4 years ago|reply
The self doubt it can sow is horrible, but the way out is to realise you're in the matrix and it isn't real. For the younger populace, this is more dangerous because they haven't had much time (relatively) to experience the reality of life outside of the coloured glasses that social media offers.

I hadn't used my FB account in about 8 years but hadn't deleted it. Just did that a few days ago and the sense of closure was awesome!

In India, there is a psychological tendency to blame the person rather than the tool, so I'm even more afraid for people here.I mean a case like the suit against McDonald for hot coffee spilled on lap would be laughed at here. i.e. I'm expecting that "you're feeling depressed due to social media, you're the problem" kind of statements might actually fly with the people. I also see this changing for the better, so .. hopeful.

[+] Forge36|4 years ago|reply
I had to unfollow a couple of people. There's "having a good time" and there's "constant idyllic life". If you aren't careful it turns from "keeping up with x" to "comparing against x".
[+] skc|4 years ago|reply
Heh, it helps if you're cynical by nature. From the very beginning I always sort of "known" that social media gave a very idealized view of people's lives.

I remember once, I was sat outside at a burger joint watching a lady take literally 5 whole minutes taking pictures of her food at a specific table, while another gentleman (who was NOT with her) patiently stood waiting with a plate of his own food in his hands.

Turns out the light hit that specific table so perfectly that these people were ok with letting their food get cold to get the perfect shot before they ate it.

Of course, they could have been food writers but I've seen this type of scenario play out often enough that I tend to look at a lot of social media as a parody of real life.

[+] standardUser|4 years ago|reply
That was not Instagram but rather the set of accounts you chose to follow on Instagram.

Choose to follow all dumb meme accounts and you would never have had that experience. Choose to follow all stand-up comedy accounts (or nature or music or comic books) and you would again have an entirely different experience.

It's not social media that is creating those problems, it's the way users choose to use social media. Though I'd readily admit that the proprietors do everything they can to make the initial experience as painfully addictive as possible.

[+] loceng|4 years ago|reply
Part of it is the incongruence of your present moment environment doesn't match what your eyes are telling you, causing a cognitive dissonance or confusion of sorts - even if merely feeling based; I imagine people who are mostly in their head, their mind strongly always on, perhaps used as a coping mechanism, are more likely to be less negatively influenced by that incongruence as they may not be as connected to and therefore as influenced by their body, the feelings of body to contrast with mind.
[+] anonu|4 years ago|reply
I've stopped using Facebook, IG, etc.. What worked for me is to not completely disconnect. Instead, remove the apps from your phone and turn off all forms of notifications.

These apps want your attention. But you should only give it to them when you want. Not when they tell you.

[+] MichaelMoser123|4 years ago|reply
The charts in the article go until 2019, consider that teenagers have suffered an enormous amount of stress during the last year because of remote learning and lack of real social contacts, poor teenagers are much less equipped to cope with social media induced shame and guilt. It might be that these sad figures will go through the roof in the very near future. I think parents really need to take measures in order to cut social media consumption of their kids, if states are unable to influence the addictiveness of these platforms (how could one regulate something like this?)
[+] ekianjo|4 years ago|reply
> I uninstalled it from my phone I feel better about myself after a few weeks.

Next step: stop watching the news and feel even better

[+] kuu|4 years ago|reply
I have the same feeling, and even here in HN, where people makes such amazing things and I'm just here lurking
[+] tiborsaas|4 years ago|reply
Besides people I know, I follow my interests on Instagram: generative art, architecture, interior design, music gear and some other niche stuff. I did the same on Twitter years ago, before that it didn't really resonate with me.
[+] RikNieu|4 years ago|reply
Insta is the only social media app that consistently brightens my day.

My secret? Follow topics, not people. My feed is filled with galaxies, animals, art... cool, interesting, inspiring stuff.

[+] 8note|4 years ago|reply
You should follow my Instagram.

Its horribly taken pictures of kinda boring moments

[+] Cthulhu_|4 years ago|reply
I've been a frequent and undiscriminating Reddit user, and while the "idyllic life" / showing off posts make up a nontrivial portion of its content, there's a lot of things to offset it as well. Depression memes, deep fried ridiculous humor, cute animals, car accidents, the adventures of Florida Man, world news, etc. They used to have a lot more - "punching down" content, porn - but they've cleaned the site up over the years to appeal to a wider audience / advertisers / investors.
[+] croh|4 years ago|reply
Sadly this is true for HN also, atleast for me.
[+] baby|4 years ago|reply
Try watching tv all the time and you’ll feel the same. Now a bit of tv to relax from times to times is probably good for you.
[+] f430|4 years ago|reply

[deleted]

[+] ipnon|4 years ago|reply
Note that Facebook does not have the choice to agree. To do so would be to open Facebook to unimaginable legal liability. So Facebook's opinion in the matter is moot. There are practically no inputs to this function that will change its behavior.
[+] Kranar|4 years ago|reply
What expertise in law do you have to make such a stunning conclusion about Facebook's liability? Is there any precedent for media companies being held liable over such a thing? Do you also understand that if it were true that Facebook could be held legally liable for what you're claiming, that it wouldn't matter if they admit it or not. Admission of liability or guilt is never a requirement to be awarded damages or subject to penalties in any circumstance.

Is it your position that if someone produces content that causes depression, that they are liable for damages? Do you also extend this legal opinion you likely just made up and have no subject matter knowledge on to other forms of media or websites? Depressing music? Depressing novels? Depressing video games? Or is it only depressing social media websites that you feel are held to some kind of standard about depression?

[+] munk-a|4 years ago|reply
I think this has evolved to be correct with how corporate stewardship has evolved since the 70's. I don't think it would have ever been responsible to shareholders for them to openly support the study. It'd be nice if they kept their mouth shut, but honestly in the modern world everyone needs to have an opinion on everything so.

Actually yes, I completely agree with you even though it's depressing. Calling it "inconclusive" is probably the least offensive response they could've executed.

[+] tomc1985|4 years ago|reply
If that is true than that just makes me despise the current state of liability and corporate communications even further. We are so far away from letting people speak the truth, or even just their mind, it is scary.

Instead we get all this flowery ultra-inclusive PR nonsense that makes dealing with tech far more cringe-worthy than it should be

Smile, while social media milks you like the cash cow that you are! We'll throw in a cute mascot, a curvy font, and a bunch of highly diverse group photos if that makes you feel better! Oh, does this attitude make you feel worse, not better? Well maybe the studies you're reading are wrong! Chin up, suckers, we have more ads for you to consume!

[+] decide|4 years ago|reply
> Note that Facebook does not have the choice to agree.

To the requests made so far, you are correct.

Depositions and subpoenas would change that. And if you know who to ask inside FB, there are some ugly skeletons in their closet.

[+] fnord77|4 years ago|reply
if they have internal documents that confirm links to depression, they're open to legal liability anyway. It does not matter what their PR says.
[+] oh_sigh|4 years ago|reply
How so? Isn't there a link to types of alcohol use and depression(and cancer, and diminished mental capacity, and early death)? It's not like alcohol companies are being sued out of existence.

Realistically I think that it just so happens that the people who would work at facebook are the people who naturally don't believe that facebook is a force of badness in the world because their worldview already aligned with facebook before they joined.

[+] PragmaticPulp|4 years ago|reply
> "The correlational evidence showing that there is a link between social media use and depression is pretty definitive at this point," said Jean Twenge, a psychology professor at San Diego State University. "The largest and most well-conducted studies that we have all show that teens who spend more time on social media are more likely to be depressed or unhappy."

> Correlation is not causation, and one area of further study is whether greater social media usage leads to poor mental health outcomes or whether those who are depressed and unhappy are drawn to spend more time on social media.

These are correlational studies. They aren't saying that they have evidence that Facebook causes depression. They're saying that increased social media usage is correlated with depression.

Stepping back, it appears that screen time is correlated with depressive symptoms, with or without social media. One such study: Association between screen time and depression among US adults https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5574844/ This includes watching TV or simply using a computer for leisure of any sort.

I know Facebook is a popular villain, but we shouldn't be jumping to conclusions that this data means Facebook causes depression or that Facebook is uniquely worse than other forms of screen time in its correlation with depression.

[+] nerdponx|4 years ago|reply
Subjectively, when I'm at my worst I just end up mindlessly scrolling through whatever is around. It's a connection to the outside world.

I think the causality here will turn out to be complicated and will be different for different people.

[+] snerual|4 years ago|reply
Isn't this a classic ethical problem in psychological research?

You can measure the correlation all you want, but to prove causation you have to be able to control the source (creteris paribus).

It's hard to get a study approved that intents to expose subjects to something you know is harmful.(?)

With sigarettes, researcher could just prove the material harm, and conclude causation, but proving purely psychological harm seems hard to prove

[+] adolph|4 years ago|reply
Facebook may not cause depression but they seem to be cigarette-maker defensive about it.
[+] eplanit|4 years ago|reply
Correlation does not deny causation, either. It's reasonable to postulate that it's a cause, and then study further to learn more.
[+] connorlay|4 years ago|reply
Back in college I enrolled in a human-computer interaction course as part of a double major I was pursing at the time. A large body of newly-published research at the time, in 2016, was finding statistically significant positive correlations between the use of social media and rates of self-reported depression.

As someone who has struggled with depression their entire life, 2016 was the year I deleted my Facebook account. I have absolutely no regrets doing so and I encourage everyone to consider breaking free.

[+] nineplay|4 years ago|reply
Possibly there's more out there, but the evidence presented in the article is frankly pretty poor. I'd call it "inconclusive" if they asked me.

A couple of studies referenced

https://news.uark.edu/articles/55480/increased-social-media-...

This one is not limited to Facebook it includes reddit on the list of "social media" sites. I think reddit's one of the most depressing places on the internet so I wouldn't be quick to point the finger at FB here.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/...

This study looks at all screen time including playing video games and watching TV. It's not very useful for making a case against Facebook

[+] snarf21|4 years ago|reply
'It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.' - Upton Sinclair
[+] julienb_sea|4 years ago|reply
This article discusses correlational evidence. The basis for causation is speculative at best, and there is a long list of cofounding factors.

The side effects of attempting to bar social media usage by teens might further amplify the problem, driving them away from carefully moderated platforms.

[+] tunesmith|4 years ago|reply
Has there been any further detail on what about social media is linked to depression?

For instance, with Facebook, is it more because of the ads?

Or is it more because of the engagement algorithms?

Or, would it happen even if Facebook were just a reverse-chronological feed, populated only by your chosen friends, with zero advertising?

[+] mastrsushi|4 years ago|reply
It's pretty tiring to see activists and researchers targeting big bad Facebook when clearly the issue is social media as a whole.

An app where the user watches a 5 second video of some rich 18 year old from LA making smoothie bowls. Then the user swipes up to a video of some 22 year old lifting half the weight of an economy sized car. The fact that this isn't obviously depression inducing is concerning.

I know by posting on this site, I'm contributing very little. But there needs to be a campaign against social media. Something that tells the world, this is mood altering and unnaturally over-stimulating. That we weren't meant to lay down slide up at our screens like brain dead slugs watching 5 second clips for 5 hours after work.

Maybe I've become too programmer minded, but we were meant to make things, read books, listen to music, even watching TV shows is more meaningful.

[+] fnord77|4 years ago|reply
Warning: This website is known to the State of California to cause depression
[+] King-Aaron|4 years ago|reply
I've limited my facebook to following two major kinds of content: 1. Cars (and car related shitposting), and 2. Warhammer. I do follow close friends too. But basically I don't look at any news, fluff articles, and skip through most ads.

My Instagram is basically the same. Cars, hobby painting, and to be fair, puppies as well.

It's made me feel better.

[+] rblion|4 years ago|reply
Many people I know are simply addicted to the dopamine that IG and FB gives. It's designed this way. I struggle with it too sometimes but I deactivated my FB this week, still have IG. At least that one adds some value to my life.

We will one day look back at social media like we did at cigarettes and soft drinks. The Internet is still developing, it's a shame most people I know simply accept 'this is the way it is' instead of doing something about it.

[+] galonk|4 years ago|reply
Facebook is the new tobacco industry.
[+] crystalball909|4 years ago|reply
will we live to see the day of wanting to 'work for a faang' as seeming as morally repugnant as wanting to work for monsanto, blackwater, etc? i guess nobody cares _really_ because everyone is addicted to their products, and no one wants to stop using the products because of fear of missing out. they should look into seeing if this stuff is actually making people depressed
[+] xyzelement|4 years ago|reply
In 2021, it's hard to argue that any use of social media (and to a large extent, allowing technology to permeate your daily life) is desirable, and quite easy to argue that it's to your detriment.

Funny, a bunch of years ago I'd look at groups like the Amish or religious Jews, whose ways naturally kept them out of these trends - as somewhat backwards, and missing out. But now it seems like their ways shield and protect them from these things in a way that may soon be the envy of most others.

[+] grae_QED|4 years ago|reply
So another piece of evidence suggesting that unhealthy social media use exacerbates depression. Am I the only one desensitized to hearing about how bad social media is for you. I've heard it so often that now my first thought when I hear that is, "yeah, duh."

But no one ever listens. People who post stories about how they "quit social media and never felt better" get tons of attention because most people recognized that social media is bad for them. But just like a drug, everyone is aware of these feelings but never listens to them. Those posts also remind people of their bad relationship with social media which puts them in an even deeper spell of unhappiness. So, in order to feel better about themselves they go on Facebook and watch Dude Perfect videos until they're numb.

Here is some unsolicited advice: just stop. That's it. It's the same with other forms of addiction (with the exception of drugs that can kill when you go cold turky. Luckily, social media is not one of them), you just stop doing them. What do they do in rehabilitation? They distract you from thoughts about drugs and try to create other avenues for you to get the reward mechanisms drugs gave you before. But really all that boils down to is you just stopping and moving on.

[+] goldcd|4 years ago|reply
I've no love for Facebook and the rest of social media - I can't help but hear this latest warning as just the current "think of the children".

We've had Elvis's hips, communists, hippies, satanic rock, video-nasties, murder-simulating computer games, raves and have worked our way through at least 3 waves of 'internet panic' My guess is we'll rank this discussion in retrospect the same way as those previous 'issues'

When I read a story about "the Republican congresswoman from Washington confronted Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg" I can almost hear the mantra instilled in Mark's head "Don't say nobody under 30 is using Facebook, say anything, admit anything, just appear relevant"

Now I'm definitely not saying social media is blameless - but it's not invented aspirational capitalism or bullying. It existed, will always exist, and just uses the conduits available.

If we consider the message, not the messenger, I actually think "the youth of today" is far better adjusted than I was at their age.

But we're not allowed to say that are we? There's never been a generation than looks at the new one, and collectively says they're better than us.

[+] polynomial|4 years ago|reply
Proving that Facebook "causes" depression seems like a pretty high bar. Showing that Facebook contributes to or exacerbates an underlying propensity for depression seems to have strong support in the current research. The more interesting question is how does Facebook amplify this as an underlying tendency of social media in general (or even what we euphemistically refer to as "being online")? Who's more depressed, Facebook users or Twitter users? Why is that?
[+] nverno|4 years ago|reply
The only useful stat in the graphic is the bottom one "were injured in a suicide attempt that had to be treated by a doctor or nurse", which seems easily quantifiable and interpretable. Sadly, since they don't show longer term context it's hard to know the significance of a change from 1.9% to 2.5% (is this stat historically variable across years?). Language and what is acceptable to talk about change so much over time that the rest of the stats are useless.
[+] user120894|4 years ago|reply
Being in the tech field, platforms like LinkedIn though very helpful with getting jobs and connecting with people, also creates a huge sense of self-doubt and always makes you feel you haven't achieved enough, even though you actually have. Can't even avoid going on there when looking for jobs with all the notifications and everything. Not sure what could be changed on LinkedIn to change that.