There is a zero change I will ever want something like this, leave alone need it, but if there's an HN submission worthy of an instant upvote, that's the one :)
As an ergonomic keyboard, it reminds me the dear old Kinesis keyboards. [1] I've met two people who use them. One tells it's a big leap from the classic keyboards and that the ergonomic keyboards are far more convenient (when you got used to them). The other person is not as excited about it. In accordance with his experience, the Kinesis feels different, but the performance for him is the same.
I think when it comes to keyboards and layouts, the QWERTY type have become a user habit that is really hard to change. Yes, Dvorak might be easier to type, but as long as it is not common, software developers don't pay attention to such a low demand and you have get around all the shortcuts issues that you face. E.g. Ctrl + x/c/v are no longer in a row as well as the Vim-like "hjkl". And you have to put extra effort to maintain this matching.
Like the Dvorak layout, the Squeezebox Keyboard design is non-standard and I think a casual user would face challenges trying to adapt the keyboard to day-to-day tasks.
Nonetheless, I do like the concept of the Squeezebox Keyboard.
I use an Advantage 2 and love it. I really like the Squeezebox, I'd love to try it!
> the performance for him is the same
Does he mean for RSI prevention? Because if you're using an ergonomic keyboard for anything else, it seems unlikely you'll get much benefit from one. Being able to remap keys and record macros is handy, but other than some remaps for comfort, I don't use that feature really. I do also use the foot pedals though (mainly for shift, although I don't always use it). Typing "performance" isn't thaat much better than other keyboards, but typing "comfort" is a lot better and I hate using other keyboards now.
> I think when it comes to keyboards and layouts
Again, for comfort (not speed), I switched to Colemak about 7 years ago and I feel it was a very good decision for me. Typing is super comfortable and OS support is good (OS X and Linux have support out of the box, windows does require the layout to be installed but its easy to do).
> Ctrl + x/c/v are no longer in a row
Colemak was designed for this in mind. It keeps all the very commonly used shortcut keys in the qwerty positions: wqazxcv are all unmoved. Yes, vim hjkl is different but tbh, I got used to it quite quickly and also when using the Kinesis, I have foot pedal + (qwerty) ijkl (ie a wasd layout but on the right hand) mapped to them for even more convenience. Additionally, the cursor keys are in comfortable reach on the Kinesis Advantage2 too. I leave the keycaps in qwerty layout, since I don't look at them anyway and sometimes its convenient to be able to see what a key would be in qwerty (like telling you the ijkl keys just now, in colmak that's unei)
> I think a casual user would face challenges trying to adapt the keyboard to day-to-day tasks
Agreed, I don't think these alternative keyboards or layouts make any sense for a casual user. For a heavy typist though, I think its very worthwhile, if only to protect your hands from injury and strain.
As bsdubernerd mentioned, my favourite features of the advantage (roughly in order) are: thumb button clusters, columnar layout, arched keys, mechanical keys, foot pedal, customisability.
It's a tough one... do you bow to convention or do you forge a new path.
I remember for years thinking that conventions on motorcycles SUCKED. One thing that bothered me was that using the back brake on a motorcycle required your foot, which seemed to me like trying to do surgery with a mallet. The gearshift was to a lesser degree inaccurate with your foot. Thing is, every motorcycle follows the convention, so you would have to figure out your own system, then modify every motorcycle you used to use it.
I was heartened when I heard of a pro roadracer who use a thumb-brake for the rear brake. :)
I did have a Kinesis Advantage, but I did not use it that much. Very comfortable, but personally learning to touch type on Dvorak is the big difference for me. I can't say it's better than Qwerty. But it's so hard for me to break my habit of looking at the keyboard to 'cheat'. If only there's a QMK enabled, Microsoft-sculpt like keyboard, bonus would be TKL/split, and mechanical switches.
I've been using the advantage pro (first model) for more than a decade after using (and trying) a ton of other keyboards, including popular choices like the microsoft natural line, some oddballs like the ergomagic (now defunct), split-flat (goldtouch go!) and so on...
For my personal preference the advantage is the best. I've trained both with dvorak and querty, and honestly didn't see any significant difference in either. For practical purposes I'm sticking with qwerty.
What makes the difference is:
- Columnar layout. Typing on a staggered layout just feels very wrong after getting used to a simple columnar layout. You don't need to get fancy with the rest: this is the #1 improvement for me.
- Thumb cluster for modifiers. This completely changes the dynamic of how shortcuts are executed.
- Good palm rest and key arching. The position overall feels just right when either hovering over the keyboard OR resting on it. Sadly, this result in a big keyboard that takes a ton of space.
What I don't like about it:
- Very bad position for ESC and overall position and switches for the Fn keys. I would have done another row just above instead of their layout.
- Bad choices for some key positions (I'd move shifts to the thumb cluster and move away home/esc, INS is unusable, etc). Overall the kinesis' choice is to allow easier switchover from a regular qwerty keyboard so I do at least get the reasoning for the layout.
- Too tall on the desk. I wished they would shave 3-4cm in height just by removing the empty space inside.
It's actually an easy keyboard to pick-up and start to use. Looks daunting, but most people I've challenged to try can get by after a few minutes thanks to the familiar qwerty layout.
To remain on topic, I really like the squeezebox on principle. There are some very interesting prototypes shown in the page (the vertical layout is something I'd love to physically try).
I do agree with other commenters that some finger movement is actually good, for the same reason is not healthy to stick your hand on the palmrest while typing.
There are not enough keys IMHO. I've contemplated multiple times to 3d-print myself a kinesis clone and/or an ergodox-alike, but I'd probably go for 5 rows and 6 columns per cluster at least in order to have the Fn keys as a _part_ of the cluster.
You can physically ignore extra keys in such a layout. One extra column on the sides or top row makes no difference if you don't use the key often, so you might just as well have the extra convenience available.
Clearly, the same is not true in a design like the squeezebox. And I don't want to criticize the squeezebox for this. I greatly believe different people might like different physical approaches to typing.
Darn, I was hoping it would be an actual squeezebox (accordion).
I've been fooling around with making a MIDI input device sort of like an acccordion [1], but I'm still figuring out what I might do for expression instead of a bellows.
I've been planning on making an electric concertina for years. For bellows options I've considered a fader in a fake bellows, using an actual bellows with an airflow sensor, some sort of load cell sensor. Not sure what I'll use when I actually get around to it
Seems to me that a bellows combined with a pressure sensor would be a pretty good fit for the project. You could use the pressure sensor output fairly directly for synthesis, though you might want to filter it a smidge to make it respond smoothly.
If you’re really looking to minimize hand movement and type fast while doing it, perhaps a better option would be steno keyboards (http://www.openstenoproject.org/) where entire words are produced by specific chords. It’s definitely learning a new way of typing, but the keyboard showcased in the article here also looks alien enough (apparently each finger has a set of letters assigned to it and one types by moving each finger in a particular direction to produce a single letter) that the learning curve is probably substantial as well.
The Dutch Velotype https://www.velotype.com/en/homepage-eng/ / Veyboard http://www.veyboard.nl/en_main.html design seems to be a slightly more general-purpose version of the same chording idea. Classical steno is based on quickly producing a cryptic stream of personal abbreviations then manually patching it up into a proper text later; though ofc computers can now assist with the second part, and it seems that now some people are using steno boards (or steno layouts/software on normal KBs) as general PC input devices.
There's also the question of how useful steno-like high WPM is. For transcription (using a keyboard) it's obviously somewhere between very useful and essential, depending on the task; but it also requires a lot of skill, so most people will probably never achieve it even given everything else they'd need. (And there's the alternative of using stenomask https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stenomask -style dictation and/or computerised text-to-speech.) For other things like computer programming or natural-language composition extra speed may not be worth a lot of extra bother. However there are some other things chording could be useful for instead (or as well). It's a fairly obvious way to easily access extra characters if you have an NKRO board: I'm a bit surpried I haven't heard of anyone using chords for mathematical symbols etc. yet. And it's a way to achieve one-handed typing. One-handed chorded typing isn't as fast as two-handed conventional typing, but it offers the opportunity to type with one hand while controlling a mouse with the other, eliminating the delay in switching between mousing and typing. (Though a thumbable touchpad now also offers low switching time. The Matias Half Keyboard/508keyboard https://matias.ca/halfkeyboard/ approach offers one-handed typing with a minimal amount of chording.)
The goal isn't really to type fast with ergonomic designs (as with this design goal). It's really about minimizing RSI's. WPM can be sacrificed to an extent.
Being able to type faster in relation to coding has diminishing returns which is why people don't go over to steno.
The idea with these keyboards is that very small movements and amounts of force is needed. The angle of that up key does look a little awkward though. On the Datahand those keys are more or less parallel with the finger itself so they only require a tiny flick.
When I first started typing on the Datahand the most difficult part was getting used to the small movements, I kept hitting the keys by accident. But once you get used to it it's not a problem at all.
I thought the same thing! I tried repeatedly straightening-out my fingers without pushing against anything, and it got uncomfortable in less than I half a minute (granted, the movement would be shallower when using this keyboard). I wonder what the risk of RSI is for that range of motion.
The reason I'll never use an ergonomic/split keyboard is that I never formally learned to type. I can type at a reasonable speed, but I have no "home row" or anything; much less do I keep one hand confined to each side of the keyboard.
I learned by hunting-and-pecking until I could do it with multiple fingers and mostly without looking. This means I can type at 50% speed with one hand, but it also means I would feel extremely uncomfortable if one hand couldn't easily reach across the median, because there's no one particular way that I reach for any given key
I was like you, was pretty fast and never actually learned to type. About 8 years ago I decided that I use computers so much that I should probably learn. I bought a blank keycap DAS keyboard and forced my self to learn to use it. I also switched to Colemak at that time, since I figured that's the best time to learn.
The first two weeks were painful, then it started to get easier. After about a month, I was up to my previous speed. Nowadays, I have no idea how fast I type, but its super comfortable and I don't ever look at my hands. Typing is super comfortable, plenty fast and I find I get less RSI/strain. I do also use a Kinsesis Advantage keyboard nowadays (I feel it wouldn't be useful without touch-typing though).
From a comfort/strain point of view, I think I made the right decision and regret not doing it sooner. From a typing speed point of view, I think I'm a bit faster, but probably not enough to really care that much, but I haven't checked in a long time.
I was like this too, actually! Decided to learn to touch type (home row, pinky fingers and all that) last month, and I’m almost back up to my normal speed now. I’d say it’s worth it, significantly more comfortable with the potential to be much faster than I was, but it does kinda highlight how the usual QWERTY layout is, uh, really poorly optimized for touch typing
I love the idea and overall effort, but I really dislike the "push" nature of the top row for both fingers & thumb.
Our fingers/thumbs are incredibly weak at opening vs contracting. The actuation force of the top row would have to be very low compared to the other keys.
Thumb row, left/right movement is preferred over forward/back. It's actually why I dislike the Ergodox thumb cluster. Top row thumb buttons are out of reach and our thumbs aren't well suited to go up there. Better to put rarely used keys on a different layer.
My favorite out of the "kinesis like" so far is the Dactyl[0]. But dropping $400 just to "try it" is too tall for me.
I agree. I wonder if it's better to have a two-stage bottom row, so one on 'light' pressure, and a second key on heavier. Or use a more traditional top row but somehow minimize the home row y-height so the top and bottom row can come closer.
You can get some manuform/manuform likes on eBay for a bit cheeper. I just ordered one from a fellow who seems to be just churning them out to test it. There always seems to be pretty reasonable demand for them, so I assume I could resell pretty quickly if I decide I dislike it
I’ve been using the ZSA Moonlander since mid Feb and love the split aspect, what I don’t love is how high off the desk it sits, having the wrist rests above the keys like this seems like a great idea. I’ve often felt like I want an infinitely thin desk so I can type basically on my lap without totally destroying any vertical space above my knees.
For anyone interested in the Moonlander, I do recommend it but be prepared for your typing speed to tank for a good few weeks. Their customer support is also amazing, I had a minor issue with my board and then sent me a new left half no questions asked.
> I want an infinitely thin desk so I can type basically on my lap without totally destroying any vertical space above my knees.
Keyboard trays come in in pretty thin, if your desk is high enough to attach an adjustable tray beneath it, it can work. Of course, you also need to have your monitor at a good height, if there's a conflict there, you have to do things like put the monitor at the edge of the desk and the tray out in front of the desk.
I also have a Moonlander. The hardware is absolutely spectacular, it looks incredible. However never really got used to it as I have it on my non-primary rig.
the one thing that keeps me from using my moonlander is that raising it up / tilting it so i can reduce RSI has resulted in a keyboard that just runs across the desk with every key stroke. I'm still trying to figure out how to resolve this. I think the problem is that my palm rest is so slick it forces me to apply pressure to the keyboard in order to keep my hands from sliding off of it. I may try a little adhesive sand paper on the palm rest as a first effort.
It's essentially a folded Corne keyboard [1]. I like how you can adjust the vertical position of each row, that's definitely new. Over all this is a very cool direction to take ortho linears.
In like '00 I got painful carpal tunnel syndrome symptoms after working intensely as a full-time developer for 3-4 years.
The solution was: Microsoft Natural Keyboard Pro (Photo: http://xahlee.info/kbd/Microsoft_natural_keyboard.html) plus a fantastic heavy-duty "telescopic" keyboard/mouse tray that Ikea designed and sold for a few years.. You screwed it into the bottom of the desktop. The key was allowing the keyboard to be angled slightly away from the body, while also allowing it to be as close to the legs/knees as possible - thereby minimizing the wrist angle.
Is anyone aware of any modern replacements for the above? DIY/mechanical? (Mostly the keyboard itself - would love a mechanical keyboard witht the same 3d layout.)
that's definitely the vibe i'm getting as well. i bought one of those (azerons, that is) (because i am an absolute nerd)-- the flick-up switches are definitely slightly awk, as they would be with this setup as well imo, but what a super fun and neat device. used it for a while to play fortnite until it randomly broke one day. i think i'd get another one if i could get different switches in it somehow-- something w/ lower actuation (=> faster response) than whatever they put in.
Human interface device innovation is such a cool field to see things come out of. Everything from very real accessibility advances to purely fun concepts are so interesting to me. It’s fun to think about there being some undiscovered setup that just 10x’s your output— maybe it uses brainwaves, your eyebrow movements, a clutch, or all/none of the above!
I remember when I was about 12years old maybe, I was dreaming about something like this, which would allow using 2 positions - up and down, compared to the almost straight base position - of our fingers for input. I was learning to play the recorder at that time; I think that's sparked my thought process.
It seems feasible, and it could be beneficial by giving more flexibility for your arms, wrist, and hands position (I imagine myself typing with my arms resting in chair arms or my thighs). Also, it would be great for VR, I would assume.
I wish I had the willpower to embrace something like this. Unfortunately I've never been able to break the self-developed typing method I learned as a child years before proper instruction could teach me good habits.
This is really cool. I could never use it due to having long fingernails (never mind my being a hover-with-two-fingers typist rather than touch), but it is still pretty cool.
[+] [-] huhtenberg|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] SkyMarshal|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mooreds|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] reputet|4 years ago|reply
I think when it comes to keyboards and layouts, the QWERTY type have become a user habit that is really hard to change. Yes, Dvorak might be easier to type, but as long as it is not common, software developers don't pay attention to such a low demand and you have get around all the shortcuts issues that you face. E.g. Ctrl + x/c/v are no longer in a row as well as the Vim-like "hjkl". And you have to put extra effort to maintain this matching.
Like the Dvorak layout, the Squeezebox Keyboard design is non-standard and I think a casual user would face challenges trying to adapt the keyboard to day-to-day tasks.
Nonetheless, I do like the concept of the Squeezebox Keyboard.
https://www.amazon.com/Kinesis-Advantage2-Ergonomic-Keyboard...
[+] [-] dkersten|4 years ago|reply
> the performance for him is the same
Does he mean for RSI prevention? Because if you're using an ergonomic keyboard for anything else, it seems unlikely you'll get much benefit from one. Being able to remap keys and record macros is handy, but other than some remaps for comfort, I don't use that feature really. I do also use the foot pedals though (mainly for shift, although I don't always use it). Typing "performance" isn't thaat much better than other keyboards, but typing "comfort" is a lot better and I hate using other keyboards now.
> I think when it comes to keyboards and layouts
Again, for comfort (not speed), I switched to Colemak about 7 years ago and I feel it was a very good decision for me. Typing is super comfortable and OS support is good (OS X and Linux have support out of the box, windows does require the layout to be installed but its easy to do).
> Ctrl + x/c/v are no longer in a row
Colemak was designed for this in mind. It keeps all the very commonly used shortcut keys in the qwerty positions: wqazxcv are all unmoved. Yes, vim hjkl is different but tbh, I got used to it quite quickly and also when using the Kinesis, I have foot pedal + (qwerty) ijkl (ie a wasd layout but on the right hand) mapped to them for even more convenience. Additionally, the cursor keys are in comfortable reach on the Kinesis Advantage2 too. I leave the keycaps in qwerty layout, since I don't look at them anyway and sometimes its convenient to be able to see what a key would be in qwerty (like telling you the ijkl keys just now, in colmak that's unei)
> I think a casual user would face challenges trying to adapt the keyboard to day-to-day tasks
Agreed, I don't think these alternative keyboards or layouts make any sense for a casual user. For a heavy typist though, I think its very worthwhile, if only to protect your hands from injury and strain.
As bsdubernerd mentioned, my favourite features of the advantage (roughly in order) are: thumb button clusters, columnar layout, arched keys, mechanical keys, foot pedal, customisability.
[+] [-] m463|4 years ago|reply
I remember for years thinking that conventions on motorcycles SUCKED. One thing that bothered me was that using the back brake on a motorcycle required your foot, which seemed to me like trying to do surgery with a mallet. The gearshift was to a lesser degree inaccurate with your foot. Thing is, every motorcycle follows the convention, so you would have to figure out your own system, then modify every motorcycle you used to use it.
I was heartened when I heard of a pro roadracer who use a thumb-brake for the rear brake. :)
[+] [-] shocks|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] raihansaputra|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bsdubernerd|4 years ago|reply
For my personal preference the advantage is the best. I've trained both with dvorak and querty, and honestly didn't see any significant difference in either. For practical purposes I'm sticking with qwerty.
What makes the difference is:
- Columnar layout. Typing on a staggered layout just feels very wrong after getting used to a simple columnar layout. You don't need to get fancy with the rest: this is the #1 improvement for me.
- Thumb cluster for modifiers. This completely changes the dynamic of how shortcuts are executed.
- Good palm rest and key arching. The position overall feels just right when either hovering over the keyboard OR resting on it. Sadly, this result in a big keyboard that takes a ton of space.
What I don't like about it:
- Very bad position for ESC and overall position and switches for the Fn keys. I would have done another row just above instead of their layout. - Bad choices for some key positions (I'd move shifts to the thumb cluster and move away home/esc, INS is unusable, etc). Overall the kinesis' choice is to allow easier switchover from a regular qwerty keyboard so I do at least get the reasoning for the layout. - Too tall on the desk. I wished they would shave 3-4cm in height just by removing the empty space inside.
It's actually an easy keyboard to pick-up and start to use. Looks daunting, but most people I've challenged to try can get by after a few minutes thanks to the familiar qwerty layout.
To remain on topic, I really like the squeezebox on principle. There are some very interesting prototypes shown in the page (the vertical layout is something I'd love to physically try).
I do agree with other commenters that some finger movement is actually good, for the same reason is not healthy to stick your hand on the palmrest while typing.
There are not enough keys IMHO. I've contemplated multiple times to 3d-print myself a kinesis clone and/or an ergodox-alike, but I'd probably go for 5 rows and 6 columns per cluster at least in order to have the Fn keys as a _part_ of the cluster.
You can physically ignore extra keys in such a layout. One extra column on the sides or top row makes no difference if you don't use the key often, so you might just as well have the extra convenience available.
Clearly, the same is not true in a design like the squeezebox. And I don't want to criticize the squeezebox for this. I greatly believe different people might like different physical approaches to typing.
[+] [-] skybrian|4 years ago|reply
I've been fooling around with making a MIDI input device sort of like an acccordion [1], but I'm still figuring out what I might do for expression instead of a bellows.
[1] https://github.com/skybrian/accordionsynth
[+] [-] Nition|4 years ago|reply
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squeezebox_(network_music_play...
[+] [-] nightfly|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rdlw|4 years ago|reply
[1] https://youtu.be/oE-uB1Vw40w
[+] [-] Doxin|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] loloquwowndueo|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] leoc|4 years ago|reply
There's also the question of how useful steno-like high WPM is. For transcription (using a keyboard) it's obviously somewhere between very useful and essential, depending on the task; but it also requires a lot of skill, so most people will probably never achieve it even given everything else they'd need. (And there's the alternative of using stenomask https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stenomask -style dictation and/or computerised text-to-speech.) For other things like computer programming or natural-language composition extra speed may not be worth a lot of extra bother. However there are some other things chording could be useful for instead (or as well). It's a fairly obvious way to easily access extra characters if you have an NKRO board: I'm a bit surpried I haven't heard of anyone using chords for mathematical symbols etc. yet. And it's a way to achieve one-handed typing. One-handed chorded typing isn't as fast as two-handed conventional typing, but it offers the opportunity to type with one hand while controlling a mouse with the other, eliminating the delay in switching between mousing and typing. (Though a thumbable touchpad now also offers low switching time. The Matias Half Keyboard/508keyboard https://matias.ca/halfkeyboard/ approach offers one-handed typing with a minimal amount of chording.)
[+] [-] irjustin|4 years ago|reply
Being able to type faster in relation to coding has diminishing returns which is why people don't go over to steno.
Very few of us need to do speech dictation.
[+] [-] xupybd|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cosmotic|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] donio|4 years ago|reply
When I first started typing on the Datahand the most difficult part was getting used to the small movements, I kept hitting the keys by accident. But once you get used to it it's not a problem at all.
[+] [-] kempbellt|4 years ago|reply
Might make you good at rock climbing if you're an avid typist.
[+] [-] sangnoir|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kgwxd|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] melling|4 years ago|reply
Also, the key switches might require little force; there are no key caps
[+] [-] brundolf|4 years ago|reply
I learned by hunting-and-pecking until I could do it with multiple fingers and mostly without looking. This means I can type at 50% speed with one hand, but it also means I would feel extremely uncomfortable if one hand couldn't easily reach across the median, because there's no one particular way that I reach for any given key
I'm curious how common this is?
[+] [-] dkersten|4 years ago|reply
The first two weeks were painful, then it started to get easier. After about a month, I was up to my previous speed. Nowadays, I have no idea how fast I type, but its super comfortable and I don't ever look at my hands. Typing is super comfortable, plenty fast and I find I get less RSI/strain. I do also use a Kinsesis Advantage keyboard nowadays (I feel it wouldn't be useful without touch-typing though).
From a comfort/strain point of view, I think I made the right decision and regret not doing it sooner. From a typing speed point of view, I think I'm a bit faster, but probably not enough to really care that much, but I haven't checked in a long time.
[+] [-] pickledish|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jeofken|4 years ago|reply
How do HN solve the problem of programming with one hand?
[+] [-] irjustin|4 years ago|reply
Our fingers/thumbs are incredibly weak at opening vs contracting. The actuation force of the top row would have to be very low compared to the other keys.
Thumb row, left/right movement is preferred over forward/back. It's actually why I dislike the Ergodox thumb cluster. Top row thumb buttons are out of reach and our thumbs aren't well suited to go up there. Better to put rarely used keys on a different layer.
My favorite out of the "kinesis like" so far is the Dactyl[0]. But dropping $400 just to "try it" is too tall for me.
[0] https://ohkeycaps.com/products/built-to-order-dactyl-manufor...
[+] [-] raihansaputra|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tekromancr|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] donio|4 years ago|reply
One difference is that the Datahand also has keys on the left and right of each finger for a total of 5 keys on each.
[+] [-] simonbarker87|4 years ago|reply
For anyone interested in the Moonlander, I do recommend it but be prepared for your typing speed to tank for a good few weeks. Their customer support is also amazing, I had a minor issue with my board and then sent me a new left half no questions asked.
[+] [-] toast0|4 years ago|reply
Keyboard trays come in in pretty thin, if your desk is high enough to attach an adjustable tray beneath it, it can work. Of course, you also need to have your monitor at a good height, if there's a conflict there, you have to do things like put the monitor at the edge of the desk and the tray out in front of the desk.
[+] [-] therein|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nullwarp|4 years ago|reply
FWIW my RSI in my wrist has improved already a great deal since switching and it's only been a week.
[+] [-] stevehawk|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cuddlybacon|4 years ago|reply
And one of the features of the Moonlander over the Ergodox EZ is it's thinner. Mechanical keyboards seem to be bulky by default.
[+] [-] wellthisisgreat|4 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] dejj|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] patja|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] grae_QED|4 years ago|reply
[1] https://github.com/foostan/crkbd
[+] [-] tpmx|4 years ago|reply
The solution was: Microsoft Natural Keyboard Pro (Photo: http://xahlee.info/kbd/Microsoft_natural_keyboard.html) plus a fantastic heavy-duty "telescopic" keyboard/mouse tray that Ikea designed and sold for a few years.. You screwed it into the bottom of the desktop. The key was allowing the keyboard to be angled slightly away from the body, while also allowing it to be as close to the legs/knees as possible - thereby minimizing the wrist angle.
Is anyone aware of any modern replacements for the above? DIY/mechanical? (Mostly the keyboard itself - would love a mechanical keyboard witht the same 3d layout.)
[+] [-] ents|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] keeganpoppen|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] corytheboyd|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] onetom|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pipnonsense|4 years ago|reply
It seems feasible, and it could be beneficial by giving more flexibility for your arms, wrist, and hands position (I imagine myself typing with my arms resting in chair arms or my thighs). Also, it would be great for VR, I would assume.
[+] [-] Causality1|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] egypturnash|4 years ago|reply