Pfizer vaccine reprograms innate immune responses

[March_f6]

I'm honestly pretty torn at this point which vaccine I should be going for. It seems like every week there is another article insinuating that there is some poorly understood, potentially high impact, facet of a given vaccine. Anyone else "holding out?"

[kybernetyk]

For me I'm waiting $N years till I consider getting a covid shot.

According to the oxford calculator[0] my risk of hospitalization is microscopic so I take that chance over trying out new under-tested vaxines.

[0] https://qcovid.org/

[alimw]

Unless you are a researcher in the field, there are certainly more important things for you to be worrying about. Just get a vaccine, any vaccine.

[kennywinker]

As far as I can tell the difference between the pfizer and moderna vaccines are negligible. The results of differences in their testing procedure and conditions - the stuff you’re getting is basically the same. So, unless you’re (in my opinion) wrongly calculating the risk from a vaccine as larger than the risk from the disease, the best shot is the one you can get soonest.

[hef19898]

Johnson and Johnson. Because you only need one shot and you are good to go. Immediately followed by whatever vaccine is available at the moment. Which leaves, at least for the next couple of weeks, with option three: none of the above.

So definitely not holding out.

[Traubenfuchs]

I am a fit man, under 30 and my Vitamin D, C and Zinc levels are high.

I have zero interest in getting any covid vaccine unless forced to.

[AnimalMuppet]

I... kind of was? I wasn't in a rush, anyway. Figured I'm healthy enough that I'd let those who are more at risk than me get their shots.

And then I went in to the pharmacy to pick up a prescription, and they said, hey, we've got this extra dose, do you want it? So I took it, just because I was there and it was easy.

[StavrosK]

On the contrary, I was excited to finally get it yesterday, even though I already had immunity.

[Daishiman]

Not being an expert in the subject, but a lot of the COVID vaccines are based on established and well-tested mechanisms that AFAIK, are fairly predictable.

[doggodaddo78]

I went with Moderna.

Just get it.

Analysis paralysis is the enemy of the good.

[PlotCitizen]

I'm also holding out

[mythrwy]

I'm waiting.

[benlumen]

Is "reprograms innate immune responses" not just another way of saying it does what a vaccine is supposed to?

All I got from it was that it might cause you to react more strongly to fungal infections.

[suchire]

“Innate immunity” is a particular thing in immunology that’s distinct from “adaptive immunity”. Adaptive immunity includes things like antibodies, and is most often what we are targeting with vaccines. Innate immunity covers a huge range of inherited systems including hard-codes responses to things like bacterial proteins, markers for fungi and viruses, etc

Like everything else in biology, there is tight coupling between innate immunity and adaptive immunity), so the distinction in reality isn’t so clear-cut about what’s part of innate vs adaptive, but that’s the broad gist.

[doggodaddo78]

I'm wondering if the Moderna vaccine acts similarly, and innate training occurs mostly during the first shot seeing the VLPs and/or spike proteins. Then, perhaps more of the adaptive system generating IgGs is trained weeks after the first shot and/or reinforced during the second shot which triggers a large response, hence flu-like symptoms. Additional shots or pathogen exposure would likely not produce much of a response as it seems the innate system participates, in addition to the adaptive system. It might be because humoral and cellular elements straddle both systems, and perhaps they cooperate in some form even if they're operating in mostly different domains.

On the fungi cytokine increased responses front, I wonder if the alterations in toll-like receptors heightens fungal allergies in addition to fighting fungal infections more efficiently.

[nadermx]

Not peer reviewed

[neilwilson]

Not that that would help anyway. That's becoming increasingly an appeal to authority. There isn't anybody to do the review that isn't a colleague or a competitor, or worse part of an established GroupThink.

Peer review has had its day due to specialisation in science. The gold standard now has to be replication from the published method.

Therefore: not replicated.

[hellothere1337]

I like seeing the strategy of asking for the highest level of accuracy and testing for all things that do not confirm my biases while being more lax about the things that confirm my biases. I've seen this strategy becoming much more popular these past few years.

[doix]

Is anyone here well versed in this stuff? Can you dumb it down a little bit for me?

Is the article saying that the pfizer vaccine reduces the inflammatory response to covid19 and happens to increase the inflammatory response to some random fungus?

I must have re-read this article a whole bunch of times and I'm still not convinced I understood anything at all.

[Traubenfuchs]

The experimental covid vaccines changes your immune system response to non-covid pathogens in ways that aren‘t fully understood, potentially permanently. For example, your immune system will react with a stronger inflammatory response to fungus.

They also warn that those effects could change (worsen) the effectiveness of other vaccines, for other diseases.

[amai]

"This also suggests a shift towards increased inflammatory responses to fungi following vaccination, say the researchers."

Isn't that a good thing?

[totony]

AFAIK no, since fungal infections are often treated with steroids/cortisone to lessen the inflammation.

[egberts1]

Not replicated, as that’s the new gold standard for medical whitepapers nowadays, peer-reviewed not withstanding.