Tangentially related, there is a Greek influence on Buddhism in East Asia because Buddhism arrived in China via the Greek Bactrian kingdom. The Buddha as depicted in East Asia is wearing Greek robes and there are elements of Greek philosophy in Buddhism as practiced in East Asia.
Also of interest is the Mari Native Religion which is practiced in the Mari El Republic of Russia[0]. I believe this is the only example of an indigenous religion surviving with continued practice into the modern day. RT made a documentary about it[1].
Perhaps in Europe, but globally, I can think of plenty of others off the top of my head: the various religions of Native Americans/First Nations peoples, the beliefs of Aboriginal people in Australia, even Japanese Shinto probably qualifies.
On thing that really surprised me watching his channel is just how empty all these periphery russian republics appear to be.
I understand that there is economic struggle as in many other parts of the world. But I was really surprised by the general lack of actual people against the large swaths of land.
Just a friendly heads up: I used to be a huge fan of this YT channel until I saw some pretty damning evidence that the guy is a predatory sex tourist/pick up artist. I really enjoyed the content (the editing is a breath of fresh air on YT), but ultimately unsubbed and stopped watching. I'd encourage others to look into it and make your own judgement, of course.
agreed, and even more sensible would be to just think in regions. Bosporus, Black Sea and the Mediterranean are natural boundaries for the European region, the Himalayas are the natural boundaries between East/Central and South Asia, the Saharan / Arabian / Afghan and Kazakh deserts and steppes are natural boundaries of the Middle East / North African region. Whenever a civilization has tried to cross over from one of those regions into the other, big world events ensued.
The Ural mountains divide Europe from Asia. It can also be argued that the division of Europe from the Mid East (East Med) is between Christianity and Islam.
I can't help but think that the whole distinction between Europe and Asia is based on European pride and racism. It definitely makes sense to divide them from a cultural perspective, but a geological one? Come on.
I don't quite get why "country" in the title here is in quotes - even though not an independent state, it's a country the same way Wales or Scotland is a country.
It seems weird Buddhism is such a minor religion in Europe while it is so rational, based on individual experience (rather than belief) gained through reproducible applied self-regulation techniques, backed by neuroscience and explained with consistent philosophical logic.
Western/secular Buddhism popularized in the west is generally not the same as Buddhism practiced in Buddhist countries. The actual Buddhist religion teachings can include, depending on the branch:
- Hell and heaven realms where you can get reincarnated into if you've lived an especially bad or good life
- Various gods and demons
- A timeline spanning trillions of years and hundreds of Buddhas
- "Celestial Buddhas" that came from space
- Enlightenment is now impossible in this world because it's too corrupt. If you chant enough, this or that Buddha will reincarnate you into their personal realm where you can become enlightened.
The majority of Buddhists in the world believe and teach these things. The modern secular western Buddhist community is sort of like a Theravada-lite in my opinion. Theravada already doesn't have a lot of the above, but they do have reincarnation, different realms, magic powers, etc. In the west the Four Noble Truths and Noble Eightfold Path are emphasized while chanting, ritual, etc. as well as supernatural beliefs are downplayed.
So when you say that Buddhism is rational and consistent, you're referring to a westernized version of it. In my opinion, what Siddhartha Gautama actually taught, or at least what early Buddhism seems to have been, is somewhat close to the pared-down westernized version of Buddhism, just in a Hindu context and belief system due to the time and location of the teachings. But this set of teachings is NOT the same as the religion of Buddhism as practiced by most Buddhists.
All that being said, something real is in the core teachings. You don't have to take anyone's word for it. You don't have to have faith in anything. Just learn to look inside, and see for yourself.
Plenty -- most? -- forms of Buddhism also have tons of mysticism, gods, reincarnation, and other stuff that would have to compete with Europe's other religious traditions.
What you're saying is sort of like reducing Christianity to "love thy neighbor" and wondering why that didn't catch on wherever people are nice.
I'm in a Buddhist country right now, and I really dig it, and I'm learning all kinds of awesome things about how people live -- but I'm not sure I'd say the locals are more rational than the Europeans. Nor would I say the Europeans are necessarily more rational than anybody else... maybe "performative rationalism" would be a good term?
As a child I had a subconscious assumption that Christianity wasn't rational, and maintained that view into my mid-twenties. Thankfully, I had the drive to do research on it, and an open enough mind to accept it, because I was ready to reject Christianity completely for a short period. I know this view isn't popular, but today, I see Christianity as the most rational philosophy/religion out there.
I think it's been wrongfully misconstrued as irrational by people who don't really understand the religion, inside and out.
Perhaps people experience cognitive dissonance when reconciling the things that you mentioned with beliefs about reincarnation?
I am relying on a rather common and uninformed understanding of Buddhism here, so I may be way off base.
EDIT:
I had to look it up, but I guess European culture has contained some sort of belief in reincarnation (Plato's Republic, Book X / Myth of Er). I don't suppose this belief has much traction anymore, despite the strong influence of Plato (or Greek philosophy in general) on Christianity.
Have you been to Europe? Many countries there masquerade as the developed nations seen in Northwest and Central Europe, while actually unaffiliated countries around the world aspire to be seen as developed.
A lot of irrational things happen at the cultural and state level in Europe, with an iron thumb of redundancy keeping those silly states in check.
A lot of secular buddhists tend to identify as humanists instead. It's a very popular saying: "Don't use buddhism to become a buddhist. Use buddhism to become a better whatever you are."
I always find it quite embarrassing when right-wing politicians here in Germany come up with this or that does not belong to Europe. In all cases this only shows their geographical and historical ignorance. Kalmykia is a good example. Most of these politicians have never understood that Buddism has been part of Europe for centuries. My favorite example, however, is that they mostly do not know that we have had a permanent Muslim settlement in Europe since the Middle Ages, which is on the same latitude as Edinburgh and Copenhagen: the territory of the former Khanate of Kazan.[1]
While Kalmyk Buddhism is geographically in Europe, it is in a very peripheral part of the continent with virtually no impact on European culture in general. So, it is still reasonable to claim that Buddhism is something foreign to Europe. After all, Buddhism only began to have a real impact culturally in the 19th century with translated literature coming from India and East Asia, not Kalmykia.
With regard to Islam in geographical Europe, yes there is Tatarstan (and bits of adjacent regions), but Muscovy conquered that Muslim power in the mid 16th century and subsequently made it very clear that while Islam exists there, it is only at the mercy of Christian rulers. Historically, during the tsarist era Muslims were forbidden from trying to convert the Christian population.
Perhaps a better example of "Muslims have been in Europe for a long time" (excepting Ottoman converts, as they are seen as forced conversions/uninvited guests/traitors by nationalist demagogues) would be those Tatars (same name as the Kazan Tatars but not closely related) who settled in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, but again their impact on the surrounding culture was minuscule, and ultimately they assimilated into the Slavic-speaking Christian population.
People who're upset about people abandoning old traditions in favour of imported ones should probably aim their ire at their own grandparents, for embracing U.S. and British rock'n'roll culture, rather than local traditions.
It's not like the majority stopped going to church because someone else built a mosque.
Also, we need to get history back as an major part of the curriculum - societies start doing dumb stuff when they forget their own past.
It is also a bit embarrassing not being able to differentiate between Europe (as a geographical part of the eurasian contintent) and Europe (as region with common history and values, only a small geographical part of the continent). It is the same way when talking about America. One can assume from the context whether it is about the USA or the continent)
If you want to have fun with right-wing politicians that blabber about "our Christian roots", just ask them how they feel about Christianity being a subset of Judaism.
It is also worth noting that the Iberian peninsula where it is now Spain was an Arab region for 800 some years. The Spanish language is full of words with Arab roots and Arab culture is everywhere in Spain.
It is funny to see the right wing politics trying to preserve this national Spanish heritage that they came up with.
To call that bend on the Volga where Kazan is located Europe shows how much you need to stretch the facts to support that view. Citing Bosnia might have helped your point better, I guess.
All this is because humans prefer to generalize rather than be precise and this applies to both left and right.
Right, because Islam is an old religion and has been a part of Europe (and other continents) for centuries; these native Muslim communities are in general well-integrated and have a rich history; they have nothing to do with ISIS-style extremism. There are peaceful Muslim communities often react immediately when a crime is committed in the name of their religion.
Left, because "all cultures are equal" it's a convenient lie t with no connection to reality. There are toxic, terrible cultures where some members mutilate others, for example. Sometimes these atrocities are related to religion, sometimes not. Whether we allow some of these customs to take root in Western societies should be a matter of public debate, not a political decision that future generations will have to deal with.
[+] [-] hangonhn|4 years ago|reply
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Buddhism
[+] [-] u9rptDjqLl0Pdcz|4 years ago|reply
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mari_Native_Religion
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ_2kpTJvj0
[+] [-] KingMob|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] throwaway894345|4 years ago|reply
Pretty sure they are indigenous and I would think their religion would qualify as an “indigenous religion”?
[+] [-] boxed|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] enriquto|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] FuriouslyAdrift|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] est|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MeinBlutIstBlau|4 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] Grammrr|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] elros|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] DoingIsLearning|4 years ago|reply
I understand that there is economic struggle as in many other parts of the world. But I was really surprised by the general lack of actual people against the large swaths of land.
[+] [-] string|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] apples_oranges|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|4 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] ardit33|4 years ago|reply
Southeast Europe is usually thought to be Greece, Albania, Croatia and the rest of the Balkan countries.
[+] [-] siraben|4 years ago|reply
EDIT: now it has been corrected, thank you!
[+] [-] askesum|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jefurii|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] m_mueller|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tompccs|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tomcooks|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 01100011|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] helsinkiandrew|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pilsetnieks|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] qwerty456127|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rthomas6|4 years ago|reply
- Hell and heaven realms where you can get reincarnated into if you've lived an especially bad or good life
- Various gods and demons
- A timeline spanning trillions of years and hundreds of Buddhas
- "Celestial Buddhas" that came from space
- Enlightenment is now impossible in this world because it's too corrupt. If you chant enough, this or that Buddha will reincarnate you into their personal realm where you can become enlightened.
The majority of Buddhists in the world believe and teach these things. The modern secular western Buddhist community is sort of like a Theravada-lite in my opinion. Theravada already doesn't have a lot of the above, but they do have reincarnation, different realms, magic powers, etc. In the west the Four Noble Truths and Noble Eightfold Path are emphasized while chanting, ritual, etc. as well as supernatural beliefs are downplayed.
So when you say that Buddhism is rational and consistent, you're referring to a westernized version of it. In my opinion, what Siddhartha Gautama actually taught, or at least what early Buddhism seems to have been, is somewhat close to the pared-down westernized version of Buddhism, just in a Hindu context and belief system due to the time and location of the teachings. But this set of teachings is NOT the same as the religion of Buddhism as practiced by most Buddhists.
All that being said, something real is in the core teachings. You don't have to take anyone's word for it. You don't have to have faith in anything. Just learn to look inside, and see for yourself.
[+] [-] biztos|4 years ago|reply
What you're saying is sort of like reducing Christianity to "love thy neighbor" and wondering why that didn't catch on wherever people are nice.
I'm in a Buddhist country right now, and I really dig it, and I'm learning all kinds of awesome things about how people live -- but I'm not sure I'd say the locals are more rational than the Europeans. Nor would I say the Europeans are necessarily more rational than anybody else... maybe "performative rationalism" would be a good term?
[+] [-] brink|4 years ago|reply
I think it's been wrongfully misconstrued as irrational by people who don't really understand the religion, inside and out.
[+] [-] today20201014|4 years ago|reply
I am relying on a rather common and uninformed understanding of Buddhism here, so I may be way off base.
EDIT: I had to look it up, but I guess European culture has contained some sort of belief in reincarnation (Plato's Republic, Book X / Myth of Er). I don't suppose this belief has much traction anymore, despite the strong influence of Plato (or Greek philosophy in general) on Christianity.
[+] [-] cscurmudgeon|4 years ago|reply
Agree on the rest, but not sure about that. Buddhism is well known for inconsistencies.
https://scholarworks.smith.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1...
I feel poetic inconsistencies/contradictions are the ancient world's equivalent of clickbait.
[+] [-] vmception|4 years ago|reply
A lot of irrational things happen at the cultural and state level in Europe, with an iron thumb of redundancy keeping those silly states in check.
[+] [-] yakshaving_jgt|4 years ago|reply
Are you sure? Perhaps you ought to read about Sokushinbutsu[0].
[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokushinbutsu
[+] [-] foxyv|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ksec|4 years ago|reply
I guess there are group of people who believe in Buddhism as philosophy rather than religion. Although comparatively speaking still very minor.
[+] [-] wesleywt|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Black101|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Archelaos|4 years ago|reply
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khanate_of_Kazan
[+] [-] Mediterraneo10|4 years ago|reply
With regard to Islam in geographical Europe, yes there is Tatarstan (and bits of adjacent regions), but Muscovy conquered that Muslim power in the mid 16th century and subsequently made it very clear that while Islam exists there, it is only at the mercy of Christian rulers. Historically, during the tsarist era Muslims were forbidden from trying to convert the Christian population.
Perhaps a better example of "Muslims have been in Europe for a long time" (excepting Ottoman converts, as they are seen as forced conversions/uninvited guests/traitors by nationalist demagogues) would be those Tatars (same name as the Kazan Tatars but not closely related) who settled in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, but again their impact on the surrounding culture was minuscule, and ultimately they assimilated into the Slavic-speaking Christian population.
[+] [-] fogihujy|4 years ago|reply
People who're upset about people abandoning old traditions in favour of imported ones should probably aim their ire at their own grandparents, for embracing U.S. and British rock'n'roll culture, rather than local traditions.
It's not like the majority stopped going to church because someone else built a mosque.
Also, we need to get history back as an major part of the curriculum - societies start doing dumb stuff when they forget their own past.
[+] [-] bcatanzaro|4 years ago|reply
Not to mention the Muslim Balkans.
I bet there are many other examples.
[+] [-] Grustaf|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nec4b|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tomcooks|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ainiriand|4 years ago|reply
It is funny to see the right wing politics trying to preserve this national Spanish heritage that they came up with.
[+] [-] selimthegrim|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] intricatedetail|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MomoXenosaga|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] febeling|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dvfjsdhgfv|4 years ago|reply
Right, because Islam is an old religion and has been a part of Europe (and other continents) for centuries; these native Muslim communities are in general well-integrated and have a rich history; they have nothing to do with ISIS-style extremism. There are peaceful Muslim communities often react immediately when a crime is committed in the name of their religion.
Left, because "all cultures are equal" it's a convenient lie t with no connection to reality. There are toxic, terrible cultures where some members mutilate others, for example. Sometimes these atrocities are related to religion, sometimes not. Whether we allow some of these customs to take root in Western societies should be a matter of public debate, not a political decision that future generations will have to deal with.