Samsung is reportedly looking to lower the payment to nearer $10 per handset in exchange for an alliance which benefit the creation of new Windows Phone devices
Suggests (certainly doesn't prove) that Samsung agrees they're using MS IP, and they're just haggling over price. We have no idea from the article what the patents are for - it could be a hardware patent for all we know. Unlikely, yeah, but unless we know what the patent's for its tough to pass judgement. Tempting and entertaining, but tough.
Maybe the they'll choose to go to court this time, as Samsung is well armed patent wise. MS' objective is clear: to make the cost of Android greater than the cost of a Windows phone license, so the "free" advantage is no longer is valid.
i was trying to figure out what the patents were for as well. i dug around a bit and found a description from when Microsoft was suing Motorola for using Android:
"...synchronizing email, calendars and contacts, scheduling meetings, and notifying applications of changes in signal strength and battery power."
Samsung should go to court with them, and they should also cease any plans to launch WP7 phones. Microsoft is like a leech in the smartphone industry. They saw they can't make money with their own product, so they try to scare the little guys into paying up, to make it seem that they are right on this, and then go after the big guys, too.
Even if using Android costs manufacturers the same as using WP7, why would they use it over Android, when Android is a very proven product in the market, while WP7 is not at all and it sits around 1% market share right now, and dropping.
Does Microsoft think this will make consumers more likely to buy their phones? I think they are much more likely to get a lot of bad PR over this, because there are a lot of Android users and only a few WP7 users. This bad PR will focus negatively on their future products, like Windows 8. They are creating a negative halo effect around their products.
> and they should also cease any plans to launch WP7 phones
Not quite. I guess you're asumming that WP7 phones are only beneficial to MSFT instead of both MSFT & Samsung.
What if, i'm not saying it will happen and i find it unlikely, Google starts hardening the Android rules for new releases? Samsung, as well as other handset manufacturers, need to diversificate.
Samsung has bada, but that's for mid, mid-low handsets. HTC & Motorola have nothing afaik (correct me if i'm wrong).
> They saw they can't make money with their own product
Yup
> while WP7 is not at all and it sits around 1% market share right now, and dropping.
I'm superinterested in smartphone stats, where's that dropping in WP7? it's not "super-growing", but it's not dropping either.
> Does Microsoft think this will make consumers more likely to buy their phones?
Well, first off, people who're shopping for a new phone will hardly care whether Samsung is paying MS patent money or not - lay person will see phone ad, not someone's press release on a completely unrelated matter.
Second, whether you like it or not, but Microsoft has had a lot of "firsts" in smart devices and tablets (whether brewed inside or acquired) and in the world with its existing patent system I can hardly hold their desire to leverage these firsts against Microsoft.
What happens if a judge rules in favor of a Microsoft injunction against selling Samsung-made Android phones? The trial could last years—or decades—and the whole time Samsung couldn't sell it's phones in the US.
Samsung got screwed over by Google to the point of having to ship a phone with a defective gps. It makes a lot of sense for them not to put all eggs in one basket.
When the Nortel patent deal is approved they would double up on the $15.
Wondering what counter strategy other than pay up are Samsung and other Android handset vendors pondering.
At this point it just sounds like the OHA will have to do patent pooling and go head to head against leeches to either get a very favorable deal or not have to pay anything at all. Google+TI+Samsung+Sony and the 80 others (ZTE has LTE patents for e.g.) must have enough patents to realize something like this.
It would be terminally bad for Android if instead of paying the ever increasing royalties to MS, vendors just chose to ship WP7 instead. And WP7 is fast getting near more than good enough. The game could change in Microsoft's favor with Nokia at MSFT's disposal sooner than we think.
EDIT : S3 was bought by HTC, and they have a successful claim against Apple. Hmm.
They don't have to explain it. They don't have to license these technologies under reasonable terms. They could, rather than seek royalties, seek injunctions. Or they could seek $500/unit in future payments (which would basically be an injunction). Although for past units shipped they'd get, at best, what one would consider reasonable.
As much as I hate to use the word tax in this instance, it seems like it, and it hits your pocketbook my friend. The cost is passed onto you and I and it's nothing but a fictional tarrif. Smart people don't shell out $700 on a new device or get tangled up in a 3-year contract that puts a $2100 dent in your budget over 36 months. They curtail the hit by shopping thrifty. Additionally, market atmosphere that feeds off of luxury goods bragging rights tends to pull shit like this all the time. Create hype, add marketing and hysteria, cover all legal ends by patenting, cross-licensing, charge $COST + $MARGIN + $FEES. Galaxy SII campaign is a good example.
Now, there's no intention of sounding anti-capitalist, what have you, but the mobile market
seems like a giant red herring.
Smart people don't shell out $700 on a new device or get tangled up in a 3-year contract that puts a $2100 dent in your budget over 36 months
If you're going to use your phone anyway, why wouldn't you get "tied" into a contract? Contracts aren't made to screw you over - they're made to retain customers over a certain amount of time. Considering the heavy regular by the FCC in the US and the CCTS in Canada, you can't really even get screwed over.
This is completely aside from the point I'm trying to make, but you're never really tied into a contract if you're smart. Customer service reps at all the major phone companies are so poorly trained, that forcing a mistake is extremely easy. There are also other regulations in place, that makes escaping a contract without a fee, very possible.
Another question when a company signs a patent royalty agreement is there any contractual language that limits what they can say about the agreement in terms of terms of motivations? Yes, I know they have limits on whether they can mention the patent or patent specifics, etc..I am just wondering if Samsung cannot than make a PR campaign maligning MS for their patent trolling..
I am just wondering if Samsung cannot than make a PR campaign maligning MS for their patent trolling
I'm sure they could, but business is not like an episode of Degrassi Junior High. Samsung wants as many partners as possible. If a carrier wants WP devices, they want to be the one to make them. Android, they want to be there too. While Apple is suing Samsung, I'm sure Samsung would take more Apple orders if possible.
If anything, Samsung may push MS to collect royalties from other vendors, to level the playing field. And this is probably why MS is on a roll. If one company is going to pay royalties, they want to make it easier for MS to collect royalties from the next company. So they're more likely to provide collateral, in various ways, to strengthen Microsoft's claims. MS can use this to then go down the street to LG and say, "Samsung and HTC just openly admitted that this technology infringes. It appears you use it to."
I'm not a fan of the patent trolling, but I must say that I tip my hat to the guy in the MS IP group running this.
[+] [-] rfrey|14 years ago|reply
Suggests (certainly doesn't prove) that Samsung agrees they're using MS IP, and they're just haggling over price. We have no idea from the article what the patents are for - it could be a hardware patent for all we know. Unlikely, yeah, but unless we know what the patent's for its tough to pass judgement. Tempting and entertaining, but tough.
[+] [-] Zaim2|14 years ago|reply
http://news.cnet.com/Microsoft%2C-Samsung-in-patent-swap-dea...
Maybe the they'll choose to go to court this time, as Samsung is well armed patent wise. MS' objective is clear: to make the cost of Android greater than the cost of a Windows phone license, so the "free" advantage is no longer is valid.
[+] [-] dhruvasagar|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] LXicon|14 years ago|reply
"...synchronizing email, calendars and contacts, scheduling meetings, and notifying applications of changes in signal strength and battery power."
http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/01/android-lawsuits/
[+] [-] nextparadigms|14 years ago|reply
Even if using Android costs manufacturers the same as using WP7, why would they use it over Android, when Android is a very proven product in the market, while WP7 is not at all and it sits around 1% market share right now, and dropping.
Does Microsoft think this will make consumers more likely to buy their phones? I think they are much more likely to get a lot of bad PR over this, because there are a lot of Android users and only a few WP7 users. This bad PR will focus negatively on their future products, like Windows 8. They are creating a negative halo effect around their products.
[+] [-] barredo|14 years ago|reply
Yes.
> and they should also cease any plans to launch WP7 phones
Not quite. I guess you're asumming that WP7 phones are only beneficial to MSFT instead of both MSFT & Samsung.
What if, i'm not saying it will happen and i find it unlikely, Google starts hardening the Android rules for new releases? Samsung, as well as other handset manufacturers, need to diversificate.
Samsung has bada, but that's for mid, mid-low handsets. HTC & Motorola have nothing afaik (correct me if i'm wrong).
> They saw they can't make money with their own product
Yup
> while WP7 is not at all and it sits around 1% market share right now, and dropping.
I'm superinterested in smartphone stats, where's that dropping in WP7? it's not "super-growing", but it's not dropping either.
> Does Microsoft think this will make consumers more likely to buy their phones?
Consumers don't care about this.
[+] [-] jimbobimbo|14 years ago|reply
Second, whether you like it or not, but Microsoft has had a lot of "firsts" in smart devices and tablets (whether brewed inside or acquired) and in the world with its existing patent system I can hardly hold their desire to leverage these firsts against Microsoft.
[+] [-] mcritz|14 years ago|reply
What happens if a judge rules in favor of a Microsoft injunction against selling Samsung-made Android phones? The trial could last years—or decades—and the whole time Samsung couldn't sell it's phones in the US.
[+] [-] blub|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] blinkingled|14 years ago|reply
Wondering what counter strategy other than pay up are Samsung and other Android handset vendors pondering.
At this point it just sounds like the OHA will have to do patent pooling and go head to head against leeches to either get a very favorable deal or not have to pay anything at all. Google+TI+Samsung+Sony and the 80 others (ZTE has LTE patents for e.g.) must have enough patents to realize something like this.
It would be terminally bad for Android if instead of paying the ever increasing royalties to MS, vendors just chose to ship WP7 instead. And WP7 is fast getting near more than good enough. The game could change in Microsoft's favor with Nokia at MSFT's disposal sooner than we think.
EDIT : S3 was bought by HTC, and they have a successful claim against Apple. Hmm.
[+] [-] JonoW|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JamieEi|14 years ago|reply
• 5,579,517: Common name space for long and short filenames
• 5,758,352: Common name space for long and short filenames
• 6,621,746: Monitoring entropic conditions of a flash memory device as an indicator for invoking erasure operations
• 6,826,762: Radio interface layer in a cell phone with a set of APIs having a hardware-independent proxy layer and a hardware-specific driver layer
• 6,909,910: Method and system for managing changes to a contact database
• 7,644,376: Flexible architecture for notifying applications of state changes
• 5,664,133: Context sensitive menu system/menu behavior
• 6,578,054: Method and system for supporting off-line mode of operation and synchronization using resource state information
• 6,370,566: Generating meeting requests and group scheduling from a mobile device
• Give people easy ways to navigate through information provided by their device apps via a separate control window with tabs;
• Enable display of a webpage’s content before the background image is received, allowing users to interact with the page faster;
• Allow apps to superimpose download status on top of the downloading content;
• Permit users to easily select text in a document and adjust that selection; and
• Provide users the ability to annotate text without changing the underlying document.
http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2010/10/microsoft-sues...
http://blogs.technet.com/b/microsoft_on_the_issues/archive/2...
I really hate software patents and the trolls that abuse them.
[+] [-] bluedanieru|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] saucetenuto|14 years ago|reply
What a remarkable sentence. I think my favorite part is "extend rights", but there's a lot to enjoy and it's hard to pick just a few words.
[+] [-] unknown|14 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] Uchikoma|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kenjackson|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Zaim2|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] naner|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wildmXranat|14 years ago|reply
Now, there's no intention of sounding anti-capitalist, what have you, but the mobile market seems like a giant red herring.
[+] [-] Shenglong|14 years ago|reply
If you're going to use your phone anyway, why wouldn't you get "tied" into a contract? Contracts aren't made to screw you over - they're made to retain customers over a certain amount of time. Considering the heavy regular by the FCC in the US and the CCTS in Canada, you can't really even get screwed over.
This is completely aside from the point I'm trying to make, but you're never really tied into a contract if you're smart. Customer service reps at all the major phone companies are so poorly trained, that forcing a mistake is extremely easy. There are also other regulations in place, that makes escaping a contract without a fee, very possible.
[+] [-] unknown|14 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] bluedanieru|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] shareme|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kenjackson|14 years ago|reply
I'm sure they could, but business is not like an episode of Degrassi Junior High. Samsung wants as many partners as possible. If a carrier wants WP devices, they want to be the one to make them. Android, they want to be there too. While Apple is suing Samsung, I'm sure Samsung would take more Apple orders if possible.
If anything, Samsung may push MS to collect royalties from other vendors, to level the playing field. And this is probably why MS is on a roll. If one company is going to pay royalties, they want to make it easier for MS to collect royalties from the next company. So they're more likely to provide collateral, in various ways, to strengthen Microsoft's claims. MS can use this to then go down the street to LG and say, "Samsung and HTC just openly admitted that this technology infringes. It appears you use it to."
I'm not a fan of the patent trolling, but I must say that I tip my hat to the guy in the MS IP group running this.
[+] [-] shareme|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mcritz|14 years ago|reply