Along with the keyboard, easy access to the official hardware maintenance manuals are the best aspects of ThinkPads. Lenovo also has a part number lookup [1] tool you can use to find parts that could’ve been optioned with your machine, if you wanted to upgrade them in the future.
I recently replaced the 1080p display panel on my T490 with a 2560x1440 model with no issues whatsoever.
I had hoped that after many years of laptops containing Intel/nVidia hybrid graphics, this setup would largely work, but was disappointed.
Both the proprietary nVidia driver and the nouveau driver would not work reliably for me. I ran into kernel error messages and hard-freezes, with even SSH sessions to the machine breaking.
Nvidia GPUs are still the number one problem. Buying anything with Nvidia in it is a waste of money. Closed source binary drivers that only work sometimes is acceptable for gamers but not if you want a reliable, controlled machine.
> Nvidia GPUs are still the number one problem. Buying anything with Nvidia in it is a waste of money. Closed source binary drivers that only work sometimes is acceptable for gamers but not if you want a reliable, controlled machine.
No it's not a hardware problem, it's a pure software / platform problem. The experience is phantastic on Windows. The reason why I went with Windows 10 base and Linux VM & WSL2 (which is pretty seamless) instead of vv is that I did not want to spend time caring about Optimus, PRIME and having to consider the dGPU/iGPU mux topology in order to get my hardware to work correctly.
Setting up Optimus is quite the miserable experience, and nouveau being pretty much useless is exasperating. I just gave up and "disabled" the discrete GPU on my thinkpad, as intel's iGPUs are good enough for all daily tasks and more.
The RTX 3060 in my machine is working well under Windows and Linux. It's a bit tricky to set up, but it's been super stable for me, with no crashes in the past few months.
Choosing a dev laptop right now is very difficult.
On one hand, you have Apple silicon MacBooks redefining efficiency.
On the other hand, XPSs/Inspirons/Thinkpads have caught up a lot in what used to differentiate MacBooks: The linux emulation on Windows is suitable for unix-like development, desktop linux is better than it's ever been, AMD is selling laptop CPUs that have 8 physical cores (with hyperthreading), 4k displays are available on basically every model, large trackpads are everywhere, Lenovo has a model out with a haptic (read: mac-like) trackpad, it's all very competitive.
Honestly, I just spent about a year on MacOS because of the hardware. That time also includes an M1 Macbook.
Frankly, now that there are so many high quality, thermally-suitable ultrabooks,I'm done, I don't care if the M1 blows everything out of the water as long as some Evo-class ultrabook can do the same to the older laptops I had - because MacOS and homebrew fucking suck. The file system organization sucks too, and not all programs ported to unix/MacOS with as well as standard linux. (or install as cleanly as with apt-get and an isolated environment in file explorer on WSL2).
I understand buying a Macbook for the internal hardware prowess (there is no perfornance per watt competition for the M1), QC, screen resolution, but fuck, the important hardware shit is 80% as good [edit: not really but this is also use case dependent] if not better on Windows laptops by now, and arguably the most important variable - software - is miles ahead with WSL2/Ubuntu/bash/apt-get/GNU tools vs MacOS/zsh/brew etc.
I'd grant IO and some web development on MacOS is still going to be more productive, but from where I'm standing the platform choice is one without hesitation.
Totally do agree on hardware writ large though, still haven't figured out what Windows system i'm going to grab, for that exact reason.
I'm not really in the market for a laptop, but I do look a bit from time to time, and what I've found is that even though AMD starts showing up, sometimes even with current gen CPUs (I think? I've seen Ryzen 5500s), I haven't seen one yet with a 4k screen. The best I've seen was some gaming Lenovo at 2560x1440.
Feels like laptops are just crap these days. I'm on a Macbook Pro and hate it. The unergonomic keyboard sux, the software is broken and I am disempowered to fix it, and there is no way reliably get modern builds of open source projects I care about. In short it was a false economy. I had a Dell with Gentoo before this, recently reinvigorated under Ubuntu but despite only being a few years old the CMOS battery is so crap it loses BIOS config regularly and has to be tediously reconfigured to get boot functioning.
Does anyone feel it makes more sense to buy an embedded system and lug it around instead from now on? There are spare screens everywhere, they cost nothing, and it seems the laptop form factor is just overpriced, underpowered, unmaintainable/unupgradeable for the money. Should be trivial to build a decent keyboard, optional portable screen and power pack in to a backpack in lieu of a traditional case.
> Does anyone feel it makes more sense to buy an embedded system and lug it around instead from now on?
Not embedded, but I was actually toying with the idea of buying or building a smallish x86 computer that I'd lug around.
The idea came to me when we started getting EliteDesk minis at work, which are basically the size of a book.
Now, those are fairly nice on paper, and at the time were one of the limited options of PCs available with thunderbolt, so I got one for myself. The honeymoon didn't last long, as the components are custom designed and some are downright cheap, like the CPU fan, which emits a constant, unbearable whir, but I can't replace the heatsink with a custom one (it only uses three screws, none of which are in the standard locations). Also, the thunderbolt doesn't work reliably either, so all in all I wouldn't recommend.
But the idea of actually being able to grab a desktop in my bag stuck with me. As I wouldn't be doing that all dat every day, I figured I could get a bigger one, with the limit being "fit in a backpack".
However, for the time being, I only move between my apartment and my parents' house, and having a fixed desktop at each location works well enough.
I'm starting to dislike laptops as well. Once you get used to a nice mechanical keyboard, especially one with an ergonomic layout, laptop keyboards feel like a joke. I wonder why they won't try to innovate there. Only the MNT Reform comes to mind, and its keyboard is still not my ideal layout. Some way to keep a high end keyboard I acquired myself attached to a portable machine would be nice. Maybe just a custom case around a modern SBC with a portable screen slapped on. Like one of those cyberdeck builds, but in the clamshell form factor.
I also use a docked laptop as my main machine with peripherals attached, but then the thermal situation is pretty bad because laptops so often seem to run very hot. I think I'd be okay with an increase in size and weight to sort out some of these problems.
In the last 18mths I've had work issued 2019 Macbook Pros and 2020 Macbook Pros and they both suck as developer machines for my workloads (docker and intellij).
Absurdly hot running under load, the frequent point releases for OSX, 3.4-3.7GB and 30-40 minutes of time unless I do it out of hours - the trainwreck that was Big Sur and virtualisation.
I'm fortunate in that while I have work issued machines I don't have to use them *for work and can instead use my nice desktop but damn if I had to work on those machines I'd lose the plot (as other members of my team frequently seem to at various times).
Have you investigated whether you can replace the CMOS battery? It may be a worthwhile activity if it enables you to power off and power on the laptop as and when you need to.
They basically have those. For example the NexDock. It's basically a laptop with no guts designed to be driven by USB C smartphone, probably could work with anything really.
> Performance-wise, this machine can almost replace a proper workstation.
This guy has never seen a real workstation.
Real workstation (from vendors like Lenovo, HP and Dell) usually come with Xeon-class processors (multiple, often two of them) and a shitload of ram (sometimes terabytes). And multiple disks.
Example: the HP z-series workstation and the ThinkStation series from Lenovo.
An "enthusiast"-class gaming pc is not a workstation.
You don't even need a "real workstation". A desktop with a 5 year old (heck, probably even 10 year old) CPU will beat the snot out of any mobile x86 CPU. Intel stagnated mobile performance for a long time, favoring terrible performance over battery life. Maybe the M1 can finally propel the laptop market back on track so we can actually get pro devices which rival desktops.
I've had 3 x1 extremes and I just can't do it anymore. A major drawback is declining build quality. When you couple that with Lenovo's 3 week turnaround on hardware repairs, it's painful. Don't get fooled by specs, they only tell half the story.
For Toronto, Canada, Lenovo offers a support option where it can assign a repair technician to fix your computer at your office or residence (avoiding the potentially weeks-long wait with shipping).
Unfortunately, when I tried to use the service, my appointment was cancelled due to restrictions in the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic. In the end, I replaced the laptop with an X1 Extreme Gen 2. That, too, unfortunately stopped working some months later as one of the fans no longer worked (I believe it was my error, for letting it spin too quickly when blowing the fans out, after usage in a dusty environment).
To avoid the downtime of shipping out the laptop, I repaired the fans myself, following instructions from iFixit, with replacement parts ordered from AliExpress. (In the meantime, I used Throttlestop to run the laptop with slow speeds, but operational.) I also took the opportunity to replace the display with a 144 Hz version (making it almost unique, as few workstation laptops now sell with high refresh-rate screens), also from AliExpress.
It worked, though I was lucky as the laptop could still function as I waited for the parts to arrive. I’m happy with the laptop now, though I only attempted the self-repair versus requesting a technician due to COVID-19 restrictions.
In my Gen 1, I found that the graphics processor and cpu couldn't sustain even a medium usage because of cooling. Diagnostics showed near constant throttling. Is this one any better?
This seems to be a bit of a trend with Lenovo. My gen 1 T14s (Ryzen 7 4750u) has a similar issue with heat, I can offer one suggestion, replace the thermal paste. I did it a week after I got mine as well as smoothing the oddly rough surface of the heatsink. Got a 5c drop, still throttles but less quickly.
I have one of these for work and I echo the issues with fan sound and battery life. I've also had some frustrating problems with sleep and hibernation (on Windows) that I'm not sure how to resolve, but they may be related to proprietary apps and so on that I can't go into details on.
Overall, it's a fine machine, it does what I need it to, but I would not buy one for myself.
I have a gen1 and noticed a dramatic improvement in heat and fan noise after undervolting and repasting (may be unneeded) by about -150mv iirc. This is on Fedora but it may help in Windows too.
Dual video with Optimus manager works quite well. You can't truly shut off the Nvidia card from what I understand but switching between Intel/hybrid/Nvidia still yields decent battery life and performance optimizations.
Although it requires the Nvidia drivers and blacklisting nouvea driver still. And I hate relying on Nvidia drivers for anything Linux personally.
When are they going to make one of these with a Ryzen?
It seems Ryzens are really rare among higher end developer laptops. Is there a technical reason or is it just Intel using their clout to block the major vendors/oems from using AMD?
[+] [-] disposedtrolley|4 years ago|reply
I recently replaced the 1080p display panel on my T490 with a 2560x1440 model with no issues whatsoever.
[1] https://support.lenovo.com/au/en/partslookup
[+] [-] frabbit|4 years ago|reply
Both the proprietary nVidia driver and the nouveau driver would not work reliably for me. I ran into kernel error messages and hard-freezes, with even SSH sessions to the machine breaking.
Nvidia GPUs are still the number one problem. Buying anything with Nvidia in it is a waste of money. Closed source binary drivers that only work sometimes is acceptable for gamers but not if you want a reliable, controlled machine.
[+] [-] 2ion|4 years ago|reply
No it's not a hardware problem, it's a pure software / platform problem. The experience is phantastic on Windows. The reason why I went with Windows 10 base and Linux VM & WSL2 (which is pretty seamless) instead of vv is that I did not want to spend time caring about Optimus, PRIME and having to consider the dGPU/iGPU mux topology in order to get my hardware to work correctly.
[+] [-] jtl999|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 0x_rs|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rubatuga|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nickysielicki|4 years ago|reply
On one hand, you have Apple silicon MacBooks redefining efficiency.
On the other hand, XPSs/Inspirons/Thinkpads have caught up a lot in what used to differentiate MacBooks: The linux emulation on Windows is suitable for unix-like development, desktop linux is better than it's ever been, AMD is selling laptop CPUs that have 8 physical cores (with hyperthreading), 4k displays are available on basically every model, large trackpads are everywhere, Lenovo has a model out with a haptic (read: mac-like) trackpad, it's all very competitive.
[+] [-] leucineleprec0n|4 years ago|reply
Frankly, now that there are so many high quality, thermally-suitable ultrabooks,I'm done, I don't care if the M1 blows everything out of the water as long as some Evo-class ultrabook can do the same to the older laptops I had - because MacOS and homebrew fucking suck. The file system organization sucks too, and not all programs ported to unix/MacOS with as well as standard linux. (or install as cleanly as with apt-get and an isolated environment in file explorer on WSL2).
I understand buying a Macbook for the internal hardware prowess (there is no perfornance per watt competition for the M1), QC, screen resolution, but fuck, the important hardware shit is 80% as good [edit: not really but this is also use case dependent] if not better on Windows laptops by now, and arguably the most important variable - software - is miles ahead with WSL2/Ubuntu/bash/apt-get/GNU tools vs MacOS/zsh/brew etc.
I'd grant IO and some web development on MacOS is still going to be more productive, but from where I'm standing the platform choice is one without hesitation.
Totally do agree on hardware writ large though, still haven't figured out what Windows system i'm going to grab, for that exact reason.
[+] [-] vladvasiliu|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] emptyparadise|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] contingencies|4 years ago|reply
Does anyone feel it makes more sense to buy an embedded system and lug it around instead from now on? There are spare screens everywhere, they cost nothing, and it seems the laptop form factor is just overpriced, underpowered, unmaintainable/unupgradeable for the money. Should be trivial to build a decent keyboard, optional portable screen and power pack in to a backpack in lieu of a traditional case.
[+] [-] vladvasiliu|4 years ago|reply
Not embedded, but I was actually toying with the idea of buying or building a smallish x86 computer that I'd lug around.
The idea came to me when we started getting EliteDesk minis at work, which are basically the size of a book.
Now, those are fairly nice on paper, and at the time were one of the limited options of PCs available with thunderbolt, so I got one for myself. The honeymoon didn't last long, as the components are custom designed and some are downright cheap, like the CPU fan, which emits a constant, unbearable whir, but I can't replace the heatsink with a custom one (it only uses three screws, none of which are in the standard locations). Also, the thunderbolt doesn't work reliably either, so all in all I wouldn't recommend.
But the idea of actually being able to grab a desktop in my bag stuck with me. As I wouldn't be doing that all dat every day, I figured I could get a bigger one, with the limit being "fit in a backpack".
However, for the time being, I only move between my apartment and my parents' house, and having a fixed desktop at each location works well enough.
[+] [-] opan|4 years ago|reply
I also use a docked laptop as my main machine with peripherals attached, but then the thermal situation is pretty bad because laptops so often seem to run very hot. I think I'd be okay with an increase in size and weight to sort out some of these problems.
[+] [-] noir_lord|4 years ago|reply
Absurdly hot running under load, the frequent point releases for OSX, 3.4-3.7GB and 30-40 minutes of time unless I do it out of hours - the trainwreck that was Big Sur and virtualisation.
I'm fortunate in that while I have work issued machines I don't have to use them *for work and can instead use my nice desktop but damn if I had to work on those machines I'd lose the plot (as other members of my team frequently seem to at various times).
[+] [-] solarengineer|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] salamandersauce|4 years ago|reply
I hate my MBP too.
[+] [-] znpy|4 years ago|reply
This guy has never seen a real workstation.
Real workstation (from vendors like Lenovo, HP and Dell) usually come with Xeon-class processors (multiple, often two of them) and a shitload of ram (sometimes terabytes). And multiple disks.
Example: the HP z-series workstation and the ThinkStation series from Lenovo.
An "enthusiast"-class gaming pc is not a workstation.
[+] [-] nvarsj|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] arpa|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] msarrel|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aalam|4 years ago|reply
Unfortunately, when I tried to use the service, my appointment was cancelled due to restrictions in the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic. In the end, I replaced the laptop with an X1 Extreme Gen 2. That, too, unfortunately stopped working some months later as one of the fans no longer worked (I believe it was my error, for letting it spin too quickly when blowing the fans out, after usage in a dusty environment).
To avoid the downtime of shipping out the laptop, I repaired the fans myself, following instructions from iFixit, with replacement parts ordered from AliExpress. (In the meantime, I used Throttlestop to run the laptop with slow speeds, but operational.) I also took the opportunity to replace the display with a 144 Hz version (making it almost unique, as few workstation laptops now sell with high refresh-rate screens), also from AliExpress.
It worked, though I was lucky as the laptop could still function as I waited for the parts to arrive. I’m happy with the laptop now, though I only attempted the self-repair versus requesting a technician due to COVID-19 restrictions.
[+] [-] ryanlol|4 years ago|reply
Usually I’ve had the repair guy show up within 72 hours of me creating a ticket. 3 weeks is really odd where are you located?
[+] [-] blackoil|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Justin_K|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] scrps|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] msarrel|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sandreas|4 years ago|reply
I'm sure he has read https://bill.harding.blog/2018/01/07/linux-with-a-macbook-to..., although he provides a link to the newest approach by Bill to restructure some of the drivers... I think the 2018 config is already a big improvement.
> an annoyingly loud fan that spins up too frequently
https://github.com/hirschmann/nbfc enables you to control your notebook fan. You can also create your own XML config.
[+] [-] ivraatiems|4 years ago|reply
Overall, it's a fine machine, it does what I need it to, but I would not buy one for myself.
[+] [-] dvno42|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] p4cmanus3r|4 years ago|reply
Although it requires the Nvidia drivers and blacklisting nouvea driver still. And I hate relying on Nvidia drivers for anything Linux personally.
[+] [-] unknown|4 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] zumu|4 years ago|reply
It seems Ryzens are really rare among higher end developer laptops. Is there a technical reason or is it just Intel using their clout to block the major vendors/oems from using AMD?
[+] [-] baybal2|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nly|4 years ago|reply