Environmental groups file objections against every single major project in Germany. That's probably one of the reasons why major infrastructure projects in Germany never finish on time.
I'm all for environment, but sometimes these complaints are just for complaint's sake.
> The objection is based on the claim that Tesla has not sufficiently clarified what precautions it will take to prevent highly poisonous gas from escaping from the factory, the objection document showed.
This seems like a pretty reasonable objection and not just "complaints are just for complaint's sake".
Well building a battery factory in EUs worst CO2 polluter kinda makes no sense from an environmental viewpoint. Better to build it in Sweden or France which have a heavy Nuclear/Hydro mix in their grid.
Environmental groups file objections against every single major project in democratic countries, where it's their right to do so. Occasionally, the objection is worthwhile.
Here in Belgium there is a growing controversy surrounding a chemical plant in Antwerp leaking PFOS [1] in the environment. Due to this, scientists from the University of Antwerp now advise local residents against eating eggs laid within 15km of the plant [2].
Of course there seem to be no plan to hold the responsible company accountable.
Not just against the major ones... it's part of the ambience, like background radiation or typos in commit messages. I probably like it better this way than how the alternative would turn out, but it sure comes at a price.
Meanwhile, in the name of enviroment, germany gets away of cleaner energy alternatives like Nuclear and increases its dependencies of outside sources of natural gas to keep the country going.
I feel that most environmental groups today are more like a religion with dogmas then people trying to do whats best for environment .
It’s difficult to strike a balance between hysteria and justified skepticism. Especially with topics like electric cars.
However, I believe this isn’t really about the environment. It’s about corruption, real or imaginary. People are afraid that companies, especially big companies, have it all too easy with the bureaucratic process, while individuals or small companies are stonewalled at every turn.
If it makes municipality money, anything goes. Otherwise, not so much.
Funnily it is because of these objections and the other bureaucratic stuff that Tesla is able to pull this of (building pre permit etc.) and has the publicity to „make it work“ because if the project fails it would shed a bad light on Germany for other investments. Smaller projects don‘t have that privilege. Kind of a Cobra Effect situation
From first hand experience I know that these „environmental“ groups are also big in blocking smaller projects like wind turbines. In the end they are ultra conservative but can paint themselves in a modern, green way
Some of them are CDU members that want to stop the Energiewende.
They usually come up with empty claims that make no sense. For example, there was a commercial forest for paper/cardboard production and it would have to be chopped early to make room for the Tesla plant. Suddenly people started fighting to protect a privately owned commercial forest that was nothing but a monoculture of the same tree species.
Of course if the complaint is about chemical waste leaking from a factory that's serious and should be addressed but all the bullshit claims make it harder to actually protect the environment.
That's actually pretty funny. The same people who want "green energy" end up opposing wind turbines, nuclear, solar and hydro energy.
And what is left? Of course dirty coal and gas?
And which gas? Of course fracked gas imported from the friends from the other side of the planet instead of natural gas imported from the enemy nearby.
The news is a little bit short, but the objection to the first tests of their machines is, that in a case of emergency the current safety concept lacks measures to prevent the escaping of hydrogen fluoride (see the open letter in German by the Grüne Liga Brandenburg here: https://www.grueneliga-brandenburg.de/index.php?cat=2&pageID...). They claim that changes to this safety concept will require changes to the factory itself and this changes need to be implemented first, before Tesla can start with it's tests.
Good luck setting up in Germany a manufactury alternative to Daimler, BMW, Audi, or VW. It's literally a threat to their existence and they'll react accordingly. Sometimes it shows how disconnected Americans are from the local European realities. Even if Tesla will succeed they'll have to fly workers from Ukraine, Branderburg is a demographical desert. Czechia, Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, and Romania are desperate to subcontract for automotive, they'll literally suck every dick and rubberstamp every papper to have it on their soil.
The issue could be rather that Musk might have mistakenly thought that he could get away with "move fast and flout rules" here in Germany and now he's coming back to Earth with a bang. See how "Musk blames bureaucracy" instead of blaming Tesla for not doing their homework properly the first time?
There is no demographical desert, it's well in commute reach of Berlin. Maybe lacks S-Bahn, but they could bring them in by bus, like the FAANGS do/did theirs from SF to Silicon Valley.
edit: I just looked it up on Openstreetmap with the traffic overlay, next stop for the S-Bahn is about 5km away, wouldn't even need to bus them in over long distance, just a tiny shuttle service from either 'Erkner', or 'Grünheide, Fangschleuse, Bahnhof' as can be seen here:
It actually isn't a threat to their existence if German car makers respond early enough. It's a bigger threat to their existence if there is nobody to wake them up before they die.
Elon should be happy that on Mars, there will be neither a regulatory body nor environmental groups.
Maybe they should just cheat like VW did? /S
I see some objections here saying the level of "green" should be more related to the cars itself, not production. I find this is a bit like enjoying the sausage but looking away from how they are made, because it is rather nasty.
Tesla has a way of presenting a " clean" product , but plays very dirty on all other fronts, like pricing lies , fsd promises which never materialize etc
I think the whole supply chain , including production do contribute to how green a product is.
I'll be honest. Nobody cares about Africa (or South America). Everyone only cares about the starving children there. So we send them food and clothes to clear our conscience. Problem solved.
[+] [-] tut-urut-utut|4 years ago|reply
I'm all for environment, but sometimes these complaints are just for complaint's sake.
[+] [-] dewey|4 years ago|reply
This seems like a pretty reasonable objection and not just "complaints are just for complaint's sake".
[+] [-] Mrdarknezz|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hyperdunc|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] oboes|4 years ago|reply
Here in Belgium there is a growing controversy surrounding a chemical plant in Antwerp leaking PFOS [1] in the environment. Due to this, scientists from the University of Antwerp now advise local residents against eating eggs laid within 15km of the plant [2].
Of course there seem to be no plan to hold the responsible company accountable.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfluorooctanesulfonic_acid
[2] https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/173456/3...
[+] [-] usrusr|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] major505|4 years ago|reply
I feel that most environmental groups today are more like a religion with dogmas then people trying to do whats best for environment .
[+] [-] jp555|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|4 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] Kovah|4 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] reader_mode|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fuzzy2|4 years ago|reply
However, I believe this isn’t really about the environment. It’s about corruption, real or imaginary. People are afraid that companies, especially big companies, have it all too easy with the bureaucratic process, while individuals or small companies are stonewalled at every turn.
If it makes municipality money, anything goes. Otherwise, not so much.
[+] [-] WanderPanda|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] WanderPanda|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] imtringued|4 years ago|reply
They usually come up with empty claims that make no sense. For example, there was a commercial forest for paper/cardboard production and it would have to be chopped early to make room for the Tesla plant. Suddenly people started fighting to protect a privately owned commercial forest that was nothing but a monoculture of the same tree species.
Of course if the complaint is about chemical waste leaking from a factory that's serious and should be addressed but all the bullshit claims make it harder to actually protect the environment.
[+] [-] tut-urut-utut|4 years ago|reply
And what is left? Of course dirty coal and gas?
And which gas? Of course fracked gas imported from the friends from the other side of the planet instead of natural gas imported from the enemy nearby.
[+] [-] shlant|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gglnx|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] durnygbur|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] _Microft|4 years ago|reply
https://auto.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/passenger-veh...
[+] [-] wait_a_minute|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] LargoLasskhyfv|4 years ago|reply
edit: I just looked it up on Openstreetmap with the traffic overlay, next stop for the S-Bahn is about 5km away, wouldn't even need to bus them in over long distance, just a tiny shuttle service from either 'Erkner', or 'Grünheide, Fangschleuse, Bahnhof' as can be seen here:
https://openstreetmap.de/karte.html?zoom=13&lat=52.42458&lon...
[+] [-] imtringued|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xclr|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] homarp|4 years ago|reply
and the previous entry: https://www.grueneliga-brandenburg.de/index.php?cat=9&pageID... (not google translated)
[+] [-] yawaworht1978|4 years ago|reply
Maybe they should just cheat like VW did? /S I see some objections here saying the level of "green" should be more related to the cars itself, not production. I find this is a bit like enjoying the sausage but looking away from how they are made, because it is rather nasty.
Tesla has a way of presenting a " clean" product , but plays very dirty on all other fronts, like pricing lies , fsd promises which never materialize etc
I think the whole supply chain , including production do contribute to how green a product is.
[+] [-] unknown|4 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] avereveard|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lm28469|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] imtringued|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yawaworht1978|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pestaa|4 years ago|reply
I think it is preferable to centralize the environmental impact so that it is easier to monitor and deal with.